Stuart Forsyth <trainmail@...>
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I look forward to the posting of your improved list.
Thank your for this--and for so much other fine work you do for us.
Stuart A. Forsyth
On Jan 19, 2013, at 2:10 PM, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:
On Jan 19, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Guy Wilber wrote:
As earlier quoted by Arved Grass:
"In the non-SP world, Southern also had (unmodified) 1937 AAR cars
with both square and W corner posts (curved corner - I think Ed Hawkins
is preferring this nomenclature over W corner posts now, based on
recent e-mail discussions with him)."
Then quoted 1/18/13 by Guy Wilber:
The preferred nomenclature for ends used on cars built with "W"
section corner posts should be that of the AAR; "Rounded Corner End."
The 1932 ARA and 1937 AAR box car designs originally used "Z" bar
corner posts with, "Square Corner Ends". It's as simple as that. The
AAR adopted the improved Murphy end for both the 1932 and 1937 designs
on March 1, 1941. All ballots (related to the change), Car Construction
Committee reports, and revised drawings used the above terminology.
Why anyone refers to any end as a "W" end continues to baffle me? At
the very least; please consider "W" corner post with rounded corner end
or simply call it a rounded corner end. Nearly everyone refers to the
square corner end without reference to the "Z" bar corner post, so why
not do the same with the rounded corner end?
Guy and Arved,
To set the record straight as may be required or appropriate, I refer
to box car ends as having either square corners or round corners. This
complies with terminology as noted by Guy Wilber and is consistent with
A.R.A./A.A.R. designations. I always welcome data that Guy provides as
I know the information is accurate and based on official source data.
More specifically this relates to the recent STMFC discussions of 1932
A.R.A., 1937 A.A.R. (i.e., 10' IH), and Modified 1937 A.A.R. (i.e.,
10'-4" to 10'-6" IH) box cars built from circa 1933-1946. Since 2002
rosters of these three categories of box cars that I originally
compiled have been available from the STMFC web site for downloading
and anyone's personal use. Admittedly, some of the data may be either
incorrectly defined or misleading. Despite making many revisions to my
roster lists over the past 10 or so years, unfortunatly, to my
knowledge the lists have not been updated on the STMFC web site since
their original 2002 submissions.
It should be kept in mind that the roster lists I offered to be shared
with others and uploaded to the web site were my personal Excel files
that I created for my personal use. While some of the definitions or
notations weren't necessarily proper or correct, I knew what they
meant. In retrospect, prior to providing the Excel lists in 2002 for
use on the STMFC web site, I should have ensured that terminology was
consistent with A.R.A./A.A.R. definitions.
Many of the subsequent changes I have made include better definitions
and notations of some of the cars' features. As an example, one column
heading was changed to "End Corners" with either Round or Square for
each entry. I have also added several new columns of information to
include more dimensional data (such as truck centers and height from
rail to top of running board) and more detailed data including type of
trucks and wheels, to the extent that I am able to define them. I look
forward to providing the updated lists to Rob for inclusion on the
STMFC web site at the earliest possible date. This is part of an
overall upgrade to the web site that Rob has in work.
Once the updated roster lists are available for downloading from the
STMFC web site, anyone finding errors, omissions, or having
recommendations for improvement can be reported to me off list for
future revision. The new columns of information sometimes contain
blanks in which I could not identify the item from a railroad diagram,
builder's drawing, bill of materials, published material from a
reliable source, or photograph. Thus, I'll gladly accept input and
feedback to continually improve the lists that should always be
considered "works in progress."
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