Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie large herald date (UNCLASSIFIED)

Dave Boss

There is a beautiful photo in the Morning Sun books called Bessemer, and Lake Erie in color. On page 53 they state fresh from Greenville car shops in 1960. #81001-81800 from two groups of 40ft. 50 ton cars xm1 built1940 #91001-91500& xm4  #91501-91800, built 1941. I also have a photo of 40ft car #91291 painted GS 4-58 for Pgh. bicentennial no date, but weathered in the bow tie white. this car is in same group . I have to think 1960 is the start of Bessemer's large scheme. In Roy Beaver's book He lists a complete roaster too 1969.  There are only 2 more groups of 100 cars the 1st being PS0 b.-1938, 2nd group #90201-90300 blt. 1941 by ACF. The next box car to be built was 1 car #82001 in 1962 this car is most likely a 50ft. The rest are all 50 to cars up till 1969. This reinforces the point that the large emblem was first started in 1960.  

From: "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:15 AM
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie large herald date (UNCLASSIFIED)


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Digging up info on the "steel" roads is incredibly hard, since they swapped around and rebuilt equipment with great regularity and little documentation, but the "37 AAR" cars B&LE owned do seem to have been largely rebuilt with new side sill reinforcements, roofs and other enhancements starting that year. The bright orange paint and big logo were not applied to anything else I have seen evidence of. Some of the B&LE cars went to EJ&E, with simple paint outs. Lots of gons went back and forth, but there has not been a lot of discussion on those. The 50-foot gon done up by F&C made its rounds, from URR to B&LE, LT, and others. It would make a great research project....

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 10:10 PM
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie large herald date

Elden, the earliest I've seen appear to have 1960 stencil dates, but
that's from fairly low-res images. It's on the borderline of the STMFC.

Tim O'

At 8/19/2013 04:03 PM Monday, you wrote:
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Nicely put, Tim!

The earliest ones I have been able to ID were those XM-5 rebuilt c.'60. I have not been able to find earlier examples.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: <> [ <> ] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 6:44 PM
To: <>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [STMFC] Bessemer & Lake Erie large herald date

As the Sheriff might say, what herald is that? No such herald exists
at this time, although railroad executives may be contemplating it at
this very moment...

Tim O'Connor

Can someone please comment authoritatively when the large herald used by the
Bessemer & Lake Erie was first applied. Thank you!
Bill Welch
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

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