Re: Tru-color paint

Timothy Cannon

Thanks for the info Norm! I am still unsure as to where I can get this paint. Where can I get TCP-923 or its equal? I am modeling early Frisco cars.

Thanks for any info you can provide.



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Protocraft
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:14 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint



TIm - Protocraft's TCP numbers are a propitiatory number assigned by True Color Paints for the Protocraft Paint Package line - where you can order them .  The 8 freight car red/brown colors are matched to actual paint chips given to Ed Hawkins, Pat Wider and Ray Long (publishers of the comprehensive RP CYC series) when they were given access to AC&F's factory archives long before the factory closed and the materials were sent to the St Louis Mercantile Library at the University of Missouri (where they can be seen today.)  Ed's research separating all the many chips taken from drift cards at the back of each Bill of Materials for each Lot number of cars ordered and built at ACF, proved that while there were many paint manufacturers specified by the car purchaser, and each had a name or different number for their product, or both, that dozens of different chips would reveal themselves to be identical.  For Pullman, the Bill of Materials was the reference, but the same paint manufacturers were used.


The net of Ed's research - and I have gone through his collection of grouped colors - is that there really was only 8 different shades of freight car red/brown.  For example, the early shades fell into what we called Group I.  This was a dark brown used in the early years:1930-1940's.  Different paint chips had different paint manufacturers such as Glidden, Pittsburg Paint, Dupont and others, with each having a part number and usually a named color.   The roads that specified the Group I colors were ATSF, B&O, CGW, C&O, ERIE, NK,  PM, KCS, L&A, MP and subsidiarys, NdeM, RI and W&LE.  BUT when the chips were laid out on the table in sunlight - they were all identical in color and shade.


Therefor if painting a model for any of these roads for the period 1930-1940's, TCP-921 would be correct.  However there is a caveat to this - while prototypically correct, this shade is a very dark brown.  Next it is important to understand that this paint faded and oxidized rather quickly, resulting in a much lighter shade.  The shade gets lighter as the paint oxidized over a period of 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, etc.  So you don't want to use the TCP paint straight out of the bottle, unless you want to model the day the car came out of the paint shop.  The answer is to mix in a small amount of TCP179 Grey (included in the paint package) to achieve the years the car was being exposed to the elements.  This is achieved by first priming a piece of scrap styrene and then experimenting to find the shade you want.  And finally, examine your dried sample under the layout's lights, which will be different than sunlight.


Then too, after 8-10 years the cars were repainted, using a later shade of paint, and probably a new synthetic one, plus new lettering schemes.  The actual paint chips show the same thing in these groups, but now with a more reddish hues and oxidized colors; hence the higher TCP Group numbers, ending in Group VIII.   These were slower to fade, but they did and still need to be blended with TCP-179 to replicate normal aging.


The result is a very accurate color for your period model, from the 1930's right up to the 1960's.


Norm Buckhart



On Dec 9, 2013, at 7:16 PM, Timothy Cannon wrote:



On the subject of True Color Paint- The Protocraft Decal web site calls for TCP-923 color for a certain decal set. For the life of me I cannot find this number listed anywhere on the TCP color chart. Am I missing something here or what???




From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 1:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint



--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
> Don,
> Accupaint bottled up their product from ONE gallon pails, not five. And they stepped on it a bit, supposedly to enhance the covering abilities, but I suspect it was to increase the profit margin. Tim O'Connor could tell us much more, as he knew the principals.
> Tru-paint, like Accupaint, is sourced from Southern California.
> -Andy Carlson
> Ojai CA

You are correct on the source but that is all, Andy.
As far as Tim O'Connor is concerned I knew George Bishop, the sole "pricipal" and quite well at that as we used to meet at
noon at least once per week, before anyone over heard of Tim.

Cordially, Don Valentine



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