Re: Car Service Rules


Jim Betz
 

Dan,

I'm not sure you understand the drift of my thread ... I'm asking
"under what conditions would the car service rules -not- be followed".

For instance - in the example I've used and you quoted ... wouldn't
a West coast car be supplied from Roseburg more often than they
would get an appropriate (by the car service rules) car from even
as 'close' (?) as Eugene. I get it that if there is an appropriate car
right there in Roseburg that one would usually be used - I'm asking
about the situation where an 'appropriate' car isn't available 'easily'.

Perhaps I should ask the related question - isn't it more economical
for SP Roseburg to provide, for instance, a GN box car to the plywood
mill to go to St. Louis than it is to haul an empty from Eugene that
would satisfy the car service rules? Isn't that - considerably- less cost?
And doesn't SP make more money on a load carried in their own
car than in some other RR's car? Even when the load is going to
St. Louis on some other RR's rails?

Of course the car demand in Roseburg was, for the most part, pretty
predictable ... so adding some "empties for Roseburg" to a Southbound
freight out of Eugene is certain something they might have done on a
regular basis. And probably even did on an almost daily basis - during
the peak season for loads out of Roseburg.
But wouldn't those types of moves have been as much about "balancing"
the empties based upon where they are needed - as it was to provide
cars based upon the car service rules.

Related "how was it actually done" question - how common was it
for any RR to haul empties relatively long distances ... just to satisfy
the car service rules? For instance if the SP has a glut of East coast
box cars then they would 'ship some of them East' ... but just how
common was that? Did it happen every week, every month, a few
times a year, only in the event of an "off season" where they knew
that the demand for box cars (going any where) would be low for some
period of time.

Please understand - I am not disputing the 'rules', nor even the
stats on how often they were followed. I'm interested in "how much
effort (money and time) was spent in following the car service rules"
and the closely related question "what were the conditions where
a car that doesn't 'fit the rules' was used".
- Jim B.

P.S. To those of you who are asking yourselves ... the answer is "Yes, I
took the time to download, print out, read ... and study ... Tony's
excellent treatise (clinic?) on "Freight Car Handling and
Distribution". Again, it seems to focus more on the way things
are supposed to work than on how they really work(ed).

On 9/5/2015 11:46 AM, STMFC@... wrote:
There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: mortuary trains
From: Garth Groff
1b. Re: mortuary trains
From: bi291

2a. Re: Car Service Rules
From: lstt100@...

3a. Re: MONON box cars
From: chadboas

4a. Re: Broadway Limited 6000 gallon chemical tank car
From: wulantowag

5a. B&O Gondola color
From: bnonut
5b. Re: B&O Gondola color
From: dale florence

6.1. Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic
From: icrr9792

7a. Re: PS PS-3 open top hoppers
From: icrr9792
7b. Re: PS PS-3 open top hoppers
From: Justin May

8a. Re: Funaro & Camerlengo kit box chronology(?)
From: hvyweight41
8b. Re: Funaro & Camerlengo kit box chronology(?)
From: Schuyler Larrabee
8c. Re: Funaro & Camerlengo kit box chronology(?)
From: Armand
8d. Re: Funaro & Camerlengo kit box chronology(?)
From: O Fenton Wells

9. mortuary cars
From: ed_mines


Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: mortuary trains
Posted by: "Garth Groff" sarahsan@... ggg9y
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 1:51 am ((PDT))

Charles and Ed,

These cars may have been converted from surplus Pullmans, but I think it
more likely these are hospital cars where were converted earlier, or
purpose-built for transporting wounded soldiers. The USATC had a huge
fleet of such cars, as well as other types such as the better-known
troop sleepers and kitchen cars (and boxcars--mandatory freight car
content). Most of these were sold off as surplus after the war. The
Monon bought a a bunch and converted them to regular passenger cars to
completely modernize their fleet. Some are still around on tourist
railroads.

All this is pretty much outside the scope of this group, so I will not
risk the wrath of our fearless leader by saying more.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/4/15 7:21 PM, Charles Peck @Chuckles [STMFC] wrote:
Here is a link to photos of WWII mortuary cars.
http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/milrr/batbtww2repat.html
Not coaches, Pullmans with windows blanked.
Charles Peck, a respectful vet.

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 6:58 PM, ed_mines@...
<mailto:ed_mines@...> [STMFC] <STMFC@...
<mailto:STMFC@...>> wrote:

In a photo circa 1948 it looks like many of the cars are coaches
which seems odd to me considering the passengers.


Are the cars from different railroads like on wartime military
trains? Would off road cars be loaded when the caskets enter the
US? Would cars be changed going from one railroad to another?


Apologies to anyone who thinks this discussion is outside of this
groups charter.


Ed Mines





Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: mortuary trains
Posted by: bi291@... bi291
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 7:52 am ((PDT))

My apologies to Mike in advance because although the era matches STMFC the remains were emphatically not Freight, but Passenger, Deceased.

However, in the interests of knowledge, to learn about the US Army mortuary cars get the current (Spring-Summer) issue of Railroad History magazine. It has a 20 page article. There was also a thread several years ago on the Yahoo Passenger Car List.

Jim Murrie



Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Car Service Rules
Posted by: lstt100@... lstt100@...
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 3:09 am ((PDT))

Local SP yard at Roseburg would have attempted to supply the correct car, in compliance with the rules. Industries did not normally call and say I need a car in 4 or 5 hours. Car orders were placed, anywhere from 24 hours to 5 days or more in advance. This allowed railroad time to locate a car suitable for his load, destination and routing. Also, many industries had standard loads on a weekly basis with standard routing that allowed car distributors to route specific ownership cars to locations with these specific needs.



Conductors usually did not make the decision on supplying cars. We are talking about an era with a lot of agency employees and yardmasters. Car Distributor and local agency clerks did not care about extra switching as long as the right car got to the right customer.



Switch crews would build local and industry cuts to allow easy switching of industries. The decision on equipment supplied was made before the crews went out into the yard to build trains and cars were lined up in switching order.



Dan Holbrook



Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Re: MONON box cars
Posted by: chadboas@... chadboas
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 6:08 am ((PDT))

Also, #1271 was assigned to Globe Industries in Lowell Indiana.

Chad Boas







Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________
4a. Re: Broadway Limited 6000 gallon chemical tank car
Posted by: SUVCWORR@... wulantowag
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 6:55 am ((PDT))

Tony,

I am a BLI dealer and I will be splitting the 4 packs to sell single cars. Just let me know what you want.

I generally price 10% over my cost plus shipping and I do not yet know what the discount will be on these as BLI has variable discounts on their products.

Rich Orr




-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Fri, Sep 4, 2015 7:41 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Broadway Limited 6000 gallon chemical tank car


Gene Green wrote:
I am going to order Variety Pack A of the 6000 gallon tank cars from Broadway Ltd. so I can get the Ethyl Corporation tank car. If anyone would like to buy one or more of the other three cars (Brown, Shippers or Stauffer), once they have arrived and I've received mine, I'll let them go for $25 each plus shipping.
Does anyone want to split up any of the other BLI four-packs? I might be interested in participating.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. B&O Gondola color
Posted by: bnonut@... bnonut
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 8:24 am ((PDT))

I have a few resin kits of B&O gondolas and they claim the O-59 was red? All the photos, which are few. the cars appear black!



Mark Morgan








Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: B&O Gondola color
Posted by: "dale florence" dwwesley@... dwwesley
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 11:46 am ((PDT))

I had the same problem. The first O-59 I painted red with the older style lettering. The second car is black with the B&O decals. Third car, old lettering, painted black. I have never seen a picture of the red car.

Dale Florence



Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
6.1. Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic
Posted by: caboose9792@... icrr9792
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 8:26 am ((PDT))



In a message dated 9/3/2015 5:23:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
STMFC@... writes:

I would suspect that rollers may have occurred much less during WWII -
clearly demand was way up, so customers should have been in greater supply. I
wonder if the explosion of "big" projects (such as Oak ridge, the blimp
hangers on the west coast, and the many defense manufacturing plants framed
from wood - a big source of future well-aged wood for the wood flooring
business) also cut way down on rollers (customers ordering wood by the train
load instead of car load)?
Also during the timeframe there was the issue of steel shortages and the
replacement of wood for steel in construction jobs big and small such as "war
emergency" freight cars and the last bit of glory for wooden boats and
barges on the inland waterway system and government construction all over the
country. Then there is the issue with all the military goods going overseas
all had to be crated up for shipment plus any blocking and bracing for all
the goods moving around with the increased industrial activity.
Mark Rickert



Messages in this topic (44)
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________________________________________________________________________
7a. Re: PS PS-3 open top hoppers
Posted by: caboose9792@... icrr9792
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 8:28 am ((PDT))



In a message dated 8/26/2015 7:51:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
STMFC@... writes:

Bill,
The following roads and successors rostered the 2750 cubic foot 70-77 ton
and 2960 85 ton variants:

Atlantic Coast Line (SCL)
Alaska Railroad
Boston and Maine
DT&I
Great Northern (BN)
L&N
Rock Island (ROCK)
Southern Railway (ACF built clones)
Utah Railway

Justin May


At least one exexGN exBN car went on to become WICT 7010 and went to IRM
(IRYM 7010) until it was panted back to GN 70104 to start the cycle again.
Mark Rickert




Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
7b. Re: PS PS-3 open top hoppers
Posted by: "Justin May" jmay59@... highhoods
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 10:54 am ((PDT))

At least one exexGN exBN car went on to become WICT 7010 and went to IRM (IRYM 7010) until it was panted back to GN 70104 to start the cycle again.
Mark,
I located the IRM site folder and went through every photo. For those needing to detail the new Tangent Scale Models PS-3 kit, it's a wealth of information.

http://www2.irm.org/blogs/archives/20-Great-Northern-70104.html

Use the "Next" link at the top of the page to navigate through the transformation of the car from initial condition to fully repainted.

So far based upon my research, I've determined the following roads used the following trucks:

ACL, 2750 cuft, ASF A-3 with Stein axle retainers, triangular shaped bearing caps
Alaska RR, 2960 cuft, National C-1, triangular shaped bearing caps
B&M, 2750 cuft, ASF A-3, roller bearings
DT&I, 2750 cuft, ASF A-3, solid bearings
GN, 2750 cuft, National C-1, 3 visibile springs, triangular shaped bearing caps
L&N, 2750 cuft, See list below. Later 2750 cuft series (153000-154699) used ASF A-3 ride control trucks with triangular shaped roller bearing caps, appearance of integrated roping staple on ends of car begins (1960, 1961 orders), and later 2960 cuft series exceed the scope of this list.
Rock Island, 2750 cuft, ASF A-3, solid bearings
Southern, 2750 cuft, ASF A-3, solid bearings
Utah, 2750 cuft, ASF A-3, solid bearings

For currently available accurate trucks, the use of the Tangent 100-1 for ASF A-3 with solid bearings is included with the kit. For those equipped with roller bearings, the Tangent ASF A-3 placed under their PRR X58 model is appropriate (B&M, some L&N). ACL's truck is best rendered by modifying the Tangent, Exactrail or Kato ASF A-3 roller bearing truck with two visible springs, and creating one's own Stein axle retainers, and the National C-1 truck design that Atlas produces is not correct given it is a solid bearing design for use on both GN and some L&N examples. Tahoe Model Works also produces a 70-ton ASF A-3 truck with a 5'8" wheelbase, but given the fidelity of the Tangent truck, I see no need to replace it.

As delivered L&N PS-3s rode on 5'8" trucks of the following designs:

73000-74499, ASF A-3, solid bearing (1957-1958) http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ln73735&o=ln
74500-74999, Barber S-2-A, solid bearing (1957-1958)
150000-151699, ASF A-3, solid bearing (1959) http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ln150000&o=ln
151700-152499, Barber S-2-A, solid bearing (1959)
152500-152999, National C-1, solid bearing (1959)
153000-154699, ASF A-3 , roller bearing (April-August 1960) http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ln153720&o=ln
154700-155599, ASF A-3 , roller bearing (January-February 1961)
155600-155874, ASF A-3 , roller bearing (May-June 1961) http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ln155607&o=ln
155875-156149, Barber S-2-A, roller bearing (May-June 1961) http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ln156047&o=ln

Hope this helps PS-3 modelers,

Justin May




Messages in this topic (10)
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________________________________________________________________________
8a. Re: Funaro & Camerlengo kit box chronology(?)
Posted by: hvyweight41@... hvyweight41
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 9:18 am ((PDT))

Thank you Al. As a man with many years of resin experience, can you tell me if there is any color or type of resin I should avoid or be concerned about? Is there a good source for learning "all things resin"? Keith Kempster



Messages in this topic (20)
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8b. Re: Funaro & Camerlengo kit box chronology(?)
Posted by: "Schuyler Larrabee" schuyler.larrabee@... angus502001
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 9:40 am ((PDT))

Armand, I wish I’d started such a list years and years ago, but is it just a card file? Why not on the computer (with a backup program such as Carbonite) in case of fire?


And Clark, you can buy uniform boxes. Reboxx at least used to have kit-sized boxes. But I understand, the “original box” notion . . .


Schuyler


I save all the boxes.I keep the cars not being used in boxes on book shelves.In each box I have a car card with information such as source,cost, purchase date,matching paint,weight, trucks ,couplers,repairs,last date on layout and value.And they are safe and do not collect dust.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----

From: Charles Peck @Chuckles [STMFC] <mailto:@Chuckles%20[STMFC]>

To: STMFC@...

Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 9:52 AM

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Funaro & Camerlengo kit box chronology(?)



Clark, just run all your boxes through the trash compactor.

They will all be the same size then and leave you more room

for kits you might build someday.

Chuck Peck in FL


On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 9:35 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


One of the kits I bought at the St Louis RPM is a different shape than what I’ve bought the last few years, more square. I like my boxes uniform, so I can stack the empty boxes by manufacturer on shelving under the layout. And to think my wife says I’m anal??

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4830 / Virus Database: 4365/10574 - Release Date: 09/04/15







Messages in this topic (20)
________________________________________________________________________
8c. Re: Funaro & Camerlengo kit box chronology(?)
Posted by: "Armand" armprem2@... appremo
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 10:56 am ((PDT))

There are actually two cards.One for maintenance / inventory purposes and the other for operation.Both cards are preprinted.The one that remains with the car in its' box and the other strictly for operation,the ones with the pocket.Armand Premo----- Original Message -----
From: 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2015 12:40 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Funaro & Camerlengo kit box chronology(?)



Armand, I wish I’d started such a list years and years ago, but is it just a card file? Why not on the computer (with a backup program such as Carbonite) in case of fire?



And Clark, you can buy uniform boxes. Reboxx at least used to have kit-sized boxes. But I understand, the “original box” notion . . .



Schuyler



I save all the boxes.I keep the cars not being used in boxes on book shelves.In each box I have a car card with information such as source,cost, purchase date,matching paint,weight, trucks ,couplers,repairs,last date on layout and value.And they are safe and do not collect dust.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----

From: Charles Peck @Chuckles [STMFC]

To: STMFC@...

Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 9:52 AM

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Funaro & Camerlengo kit box chronology(?)




Clark, just run all your boxes through the trash compactor.

They will all be the same size then and leave you more room

for kits you might build someday.

Chuck Peck in FL



On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 9:35 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


One of the kits I bought at the St Louis RPM is a different shape than what I’ve bought the last few years, more square. I like my boxes uniform, so I can stack the empty boxes by manufacturer on shelving under the layout. And to think my wife says I’m anal??

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4830 / Virus Database: 4365/10574 - Release Date: 09/04/15



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4830 / Virus Database: 4365/10575 - Release Date: 09/04/15




Messages in this topic (20)
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8d. Re: Funaro & Camerlengo kit box chronology(?)
Posted by: "O Fenton Wells" @srrfan srrfan1401
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 11:18 am ((PDT))

Accurail sells very nice kit boxes. They are on their on line catalog
sheet.

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