Re: Poultry Cars

Daniel A. Mitchell

Kristen pointed this out in her fine presentation. The mesh is in several horizontal bands separated by open spaces (slots) through which the ends of the board decks protrude.

Thus the already complicated sides are actually far more complicated than they at first appear. The Ambroid car completey avoids the issue by incorrectly covering the entire side of the car with mesh (except the rider’s cabin).

All this, however, has nothing to do with our continuing discussion on the most approriate material to use to represent the wire mesh. It’s still there … just in narrow strips instead of a big sheet. Several suggestions have been made for mesh material on HO scale cars.

The whole issue is slightly less confusing for O and larger scales as the mesh coarser and less effected by optical problems.

Dan Mitchell

On Oct 28, 2018, at 4:36 PM, James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

The problem is not just the mesh. Notice that the mesh is not continuous top to bottom of the car. It is in bands fastened to horizontal runners. Also notice that they are wooden shelves that are the bottom of the cages with wire dividers and internal bar doors. All of the models I have seen present each end of the car is one open cage. They are not. There are 32 individual cages in each quadrant of the car. My question is how to model that significant feature. 
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: [] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2018 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars
Indeed! The dimensions are close to those required, to my surprise.
Still, the mesh shown is far to opaque to represent the mesh on the poultry cars. In my profession I had opportunity to work with a variety of such SS mesh in scientific sieves, filters, and such. I never saw any that was much better than 50% transparent, regardless of mesh size. Some of this problem may be due to the shiny surface of the SS mesh reflecting light. With sizes much below 0.020” things begin to look very different as light reacts differently to small objects than it does to large objects. Diffraction softens the appearance of all edges making small things look larger than they actually are. Thus a part of the problem here is physics. It’s similar to the problem of flat vs. glossy surfaces … such things to NOT "scale” as we expect since the light we view them with cannot be "scaled”.
Thus one faces the question… “Do you want it to be “scale”, or look like it is “scale? … choose ONE!  You can’t have both.
Another issue is that none of the photos I’ve seen of the poultry cars show shiny stainless wire mesh … more likely it was galvanized, a dull gray color, or painted. A real problem would be painting the very fine wire mesh screen without further blocking the holes in the mesh and reducing transparency. Perhaps some kind of chemical metal-blackening would work?
In my opinion adequate transparency is the most important issue here. YMMV.
Dan Mitchell
On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:54 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:
400 mesh specs are 400x400 per in., opening size 0.0013 in. sq., 0.0010 in. wire diameter. This mesh was used for window screed, so it’s smaller than chicken wire. Anyone interested in chicken wire should have no trouble finding a suitable mesh on the TWP web page, just look at the spec. chart and match 0.0172 in. sq. Turn the wire 45° for a diamond pattern.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@... [] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars
In her presentation, Kristen said the mesh on the car at St Louis measured:
1/8” woven wire, 1.5”x1.5” vertical diamond pattern
In HO that calls for a  0.0172 x 0.0172 mesh
Doug  Harding
From: [] On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Cars
Where did you she her presentation?  I'm one of those whom work kept me from attending.  
The screen I measured on the existent poultry car in StL, IIRC, is a rather simple welded wire diamond mesh pattern of ~ 1.1" x 1.1" square.  

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