Re: Gondola Load aka WP car aka WP 20551-series aka WP painting standards....

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>


Thank you for your enlightening post. I must concede that you "have the goods" vis-a-vis at least for some of these early cars. I'm going to print out your message and keep in my files for future reference.

As for the 16001-series, I only know them from a few survivors as all-FCR, and these were all likely repainted later (SN, one CCT, one S&TE, one Pickering Lumber--now at Railtown 1897). Thanks calling out the 16001's.

I too would love to know what about the1945 Mt. Vernon cars. Finding builder's photos would be a plus.  I would be happy to change my views about the black ends for 1945 and 1947 if anyone can come up with documentation.

As the 1947 cars were Pullman-built, I would not be surprised if such a photo exists somewhere. Aren't most of them in Canada? Specifications to the manufacturers not only specified brands of brake equipment, running boards, etc. (Known as "specialties" in the trade, but also called out paint colors or car cement applications. I've seen one of these for the 1958 GS gondolas. Surely the others might exist in manufacturers' records, or in WP records at the CSRM, WRM or Portola. Whether such paperwork has been cataloged is a problem.

You are absolutely correct about the nomenclature of the white paint. Before 1949 it had aluminum as a carrier (I think that's the proper term), but was pigment white. This has caused a lot of heartache and debate for years in the modeling community. It isn't just about freight cars. The orange used on SN freight motors is also subject to a lot of debate.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff

On 4/2/19 11:30 AM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Garth & Ed and others interested in WP,

Unfortunately I have never found painting & stencilling guides for the 3 series of 1937, 1945 & 1947 built WP 20001-20800 box cars.

However, I posess WP stencil-guides dated 1936 of the WP 14001, 16001 and 19001 cars that mention: black roof & ends. Also have a picture of a new 18417 re-painted that way with a SAC 1-37 date (BLT 6-17). So one could say at least in 1936-1937 WP followed the black ends & roofs fashion.

Which implies that if you have one of the Speedwitch K114 kits of the 1937-built 9'6" box cars, it would need black ends & roof as built.
In fact, this is what I've always thought, looking at the builders photo of WP 20200 that's included in the Speedwitch instructions. Ends painted shiny black! (not car cement).

With the next repaint (if any) these cars would be WP-red all over out of cost-reduction, except trucks & underbody still in black.
But in my scale world one car could easily still have black roof & ends in my modeling year 1950!

It is my opinion the WP 20551-20800 series of 1947 MtVernon-built cars was delivered in WP red all over, except trucks. At least I have never seen a picture of such a car with dark ends or roof.
But yes, the 1951 PS-1 series was delivered with black car cement roofs & ends.

BTW: yes, 1949 was the date 'silver' stencilling was introduced.
However; the 1936 instructions mention 'aluminum' lettering. This I understand is white paint mixed with aluminum particles, so it reflects light. In our 1:87 world this would mean plain white I guess.

best regards, Fred Jansz

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