Re: SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation
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Thanks, Doug, and yes, I misunderstood – was only thinking of one side for the doors!
Thanks also for the info on the NP stock cars. Richard Townsend also identified the width discrepancy, and Bob Chapparo enlightened me on the BullShippers group.
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation
Peter, I think you misunderstood. All the 71000 Swift cars had four doors, one for each level on each side. Photo evidence shows the 72000 series was single deck cars.
Again the NISX reporting mark was not used until April 1961. You will not find a car with these reporting marks before that date. So NO NISX cars existed in 1959.
Your photo of NISX 3132 appears to be a car from same series as the photo I have. I can see the SX in the reporting marks on the end. So I can only assume the car was a NYC car that changed ownership, perhaps the NYC created a new company to lease stockcars, or more likely North American created a subsidy to handle their stockcar fleet.
As for the Central Valley stockcar. It is a precise model of an NP stockcar complete with the radial roof the NP preferred, with one flaw. It is a foot too wide. The NP Historical Society has replacement ends. http://store.nprha.org/ho-scale-stock-car-ends/ For a correct model you need to narrow the floor and cut the roof in half to remove a foot from the middle. The easiest way to do this is run it through a table saw with a 1/8” wide blade. I discussed this car on the group back in 2017 https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup/topic/central_valley_stockcar_kit/7688772?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,1,0,7688772
The Northern Pacific stock car was built between 1930-36 in three different locations. Built 1936, NP's Laurel shops; NP 82750-83249, Built 1931-1932, NP's Como shops; NP 83250-83499, Built 1930. Ryan Car Co. of Hegewisch, IL (later the Chicago factory of the Pressed Steel Car co.)
How inconsiderate of Swift to mix 2- and 4-door double deck cars in the same series! They obviously weren’t thinking of modelers needs in 2020 J I guess that means perhaps ORERs may list the door openings? Why do I doubt that already?
I think I will have to forego the NISX cars. The photo I have is in the future and based on your info and what I read in the archives, it’s very unlikely 50’ Mathers NISX cars existed in 1959. At the risk of forum jail, attached my photo, of NISX 3132; no NYC herald on the letterboard as in your photo, but the letterboard on the side of the preceding car clearly shows a large “TX” which is somewhat blurred in your photo of NISX 3132.
I am only in the info gathering stage right now, but I notice the Central Valley Northern Pacific stock car may provide a starting point for kitbash fodder…basically replacing the sides, doors, ends and roof, but using the underframe. I don’t think I’m ready to think about a scratch build, but I can cut sheet and shaped styrene and apply archer rivet details if I have something to use as a “foundation”.
Now I am ready to be informed that;
That’s all OK – I just need something with two sides and two ends as a starting point…
Thanks to all who responded on this topic!
Peter, yes SLSX 71548 is a 40’ double deck car with a door on each level. The 71000-71199 were all double deck stockcars, and unless a photo shows otherwise, all had four doors.
As far as I know Swift never used Mather stockcars. I believe Swift used General American cars. And I am not aware of a General American stock car model in HO. I could use several if they did exist.
Attached is a photo of NISX 3068, a Mather stockcar painted and lettered for the NYC. This is a 50’ car, with four doors per side. There is not stockcar number 3132 under North American in my 4-1960 ORER. I mis-spoke about possibly seeing the NISX reporting marks in your specified time. North American did not begin using NISX until April of 1961. Your 3132 is no doubt a NYC car, but sometime after 1961. NTX and NITX are not reporting marks assigned to North American. So don’t know what you are seeing on the letterboard in the photo. I think you are seeing NISX as seen in the attached photo.
The Mather 50 stockcar could be kitbashed by using two Proto 2000 double deck stockcars. Stan Radarowicz did this kitbash.
Mather cars were often painted/lettered for the railroad leasing the cars. Mather and North American did lease cars under their own reporting marks. Cars coming off lease were repaired and repainted, often getting new numbers assigned. So unless records exist, tracing a car’s lease heritage is almost impossible. And the ORER listings do not generally indicated who leased the car.
Thanks very much. Attached my photo of SLSX 71548, which I am fairly certain is double deck with only two doors. Is it possible the 71000-series contained both 2- and 4-door versions? Is it possible to identify if this is a Mather stock car?
The photo I have of NISX 3132 is undated, but definitely a 40-foot car and painted green. Unlike the reporting marks, the letterboard on the car side seems to read “NTX” or ”NITX” with some small lettering underneath. From previous STMFC messages, it would appear green cars were leased to NYC.
I don’t know much about stock cars, and maybe the answer to this is in the archives; While Mathers (later North American) leased the cars, I believe many were painted in the lessee scheme? So, if there are no NISX reporting marks in say, a 1960 ORER (which would list many cars rostered in 1959) how would I go about learning the predecessor lessee of NISX cars? What I am trying to resolve: if NISX 3132 is not appropriate for 1959, who was it leased to and what were the reporting marks and number (or number series) before it was assigned as NISX 3132?
Peter I have a few more photos of SLSX cars, most from the 71000 series. Also the 3600 you have and a couple from the 72000 series. All have the letterboard, so I would suspect the board is missing in your photo. 3600 is a single deck car, 71000 cars are double deck, with four doors, 72000 are single deck cars.
From notes: 71038 was built 12-31 and 72221 is marked as a GATC car. Swift sold their reefer and tankcar fleets to General American in 1930/31. I assume the stockcars were included in this sale.
The Lifelike Proto 2000 (now Walthers) Mather car was offered as a double deck with four doors. To my knowledge it is the only HO doubledeck stockcar with four doors. The doors could be used in a kitbash on another car. The Red caboose 36’ SP car comes to mind and the Intermountain 40’ ATSF car.
NISX is North American Car Corp. NA purchased Mather in the late 50s. You could see Mather stockcars relettered for NISX in your era. Also beginning in the very late 50s some Mather cars were rebuilt/stretched into 50’ cars. CBQ, B&O, NYC, and perhaps others ran these cars, both single and double deck. The late Stan Radarowicz offered a kit for kitbashing these 50’ cars.
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Ness
I did a search on Swift stock cars (and SLSX) on the group site...Ed Mines asked a question looking for an article and I found several postings and topics with mention of photos, but that's it.