Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

Douglas Harding

Attached are some photos of boxcars cars in tire service. Based on the way they are stacked in the car, I would say any boxcar was suitable.


Doug Harding


From: <> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California




I agree that there would have been pools of cars doing this, but I have not found dedicated cars by the PRR that did this.  The dedicated cars mostly had racks, so had to be in dedicated service or the racks would get ripped out (PRR has much angry correspondence on this).  So, I think tire shipments were more a flexible pool that the RRs drew from, since those cars could be used for anything.


Elden Gatwood


From: <> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California




Auto makers were voracious buyers of tires, and I expect there were pools between major tire makers and auto plants. They needed reliable on-time deliveries, to keep production running. It would be interesting to have others comment on this. I just spent half-an-hour searching the web for this and found nothing, which is typical of the web.


Yours Aye,



Garth Groff  🦆 


On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:32 PM Jim Gates via <> wrote:

I believe tires used to come individually wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.

Jim Gates

On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:





I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.


Yours Aye,



Garth Groff


On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:



Unfortunately, not yet.  I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. 


Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.


In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers.  I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.


For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.


Elden Gatwood


From: <>On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California


Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service.  Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson

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