Re: CMO 1658 Series Rebuild Questions

Robert kirkham

Steve - can you say where to find that collection?


On Nov 17, 2021, at 7:05 PM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

FWIW, there is a photo of CMO 1720 in the Vancouver collection of Bill Lane photos.  It has a seven panel Superior door with the placard board on the second batten down from the top.  The view is slightly upwards and shows, sort of, the brake platform and running board.
Steve Hile
From: [] On Behalf Of Ed Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CMO 1658 Series Rebuild Questions
On Nov 17, 2021, at 9:38 AM, Eric Lombard <elombard@...> wrote:
Dan, I have searched for an authoritative source for the brake step and running board and have come up empty. One thing is clear from photos available to me is that both are steel. 
Those dates (and locations) of wrecks and ordinary retirement (as removal from service: RMFS) are from the car cards made available for purchase on the website of the Chicago and Northwestern Historical Society. Also available is their collection of obsolete equipment diagrams. I am working through both. The obsolete diagrams, at least for box cars (my interest) seem to document cars built 1937-1956. All other types of cars are included in the collection and I am on page 440 of 808 so ongoing work may reveal a broader range of dates.
When the car cards for a series are complete it is possible to account for the fate of every car. Attached are examples. I do not intend to do this complete analysis for every series: imagine the work hours for a series of 1000 cars! Rather, my approach is to document early wrecks and the serial numbers and dates of the last half dozen to be removed from service. If you are a modeler, this provides some serial numbers to avoid due to early loss and nearly sure bets for serial numbers that would be in service throughout the life of the series. Also note in the attached examples the occasional discordance between the count of active cars in the ORER and the documented count from the car cards. The passage of paperwork through the system is sometimes rather slow! I am coming to see the C&NW paperwork as more sluggish than on the UP where equivalent data is available (an example in the attachment).
I enjoyed the search for the brake step and running board! It's a bit unsatisfying to say "they were both steel"! 
Eric L
Homewood, IL
Dan & Eric,
Sorry for being late to this discussion. Today I contacted Jeff Koeller, who I consider an extremely thorough source on steam-era CNW/CMO freight cars. Jeff provided the following information that pertains to the 200 CMO steel rebuilds numbered 37100-37498 (even numbers only) rebuilt in 1941-1942, then received some rehabilitation in 1954 when 187 remaining cars were renumbered 1658-1844 and painted green & yellow.
When rebuilt, all 200 cars received Universal hand brakes, U.S. Gypsum running boards & brake steps of the expanded metal type, and retained Andrews trucks. The doors were split with 100 each of two types:
1941 cars - CMO 37100-37298 (even) - Superior doors (7-panel design).
1942 cars - CMO 37300-37498 (even) - Youngstown doors.
In my conversation with Jeff, I did not ask for the specific renumbered car numbers that received Youngstown doors vs. Superior doors. That would involve looking at each CNW car card that have “old” and “new” car numbers. Any new 1954 car number with an old car number 39100-39298 (even) would have Superior doors. Similarly, old car numbers 39300-39498 (even) would have Youngstown doors.
Photos in Pat Wider’s RP CYC Volume 23 article on steel rebuilds of double-sheathed USRA box cars include CMO 1682 & 1808 that received Superior doors. Whereas CMO 1672 & 1720 had Youngstown doors. It’s thus apparent that the 1954 renumbering was not in the same original car number sequence.
Another detail to be aware of are differences in the riveted sides sheets. Photos of 1682 & 1720 with Superior doors rebuilt in 1941 show four essentially-equal side sheets on both sides of the door (i.e., 8-panel sides). Photos of 1942 rebuilt cars with Youngstown doors 1672 & 1720 show an unusual version of a 10-panel side arrangement in which two essentially-equal side sheets nearest the door comprised the same width as one sheet of the 1941 rebuilds, which for this I’ll use the term “half-panels” that Jeff thought was a descriptive term. In Jeff’s research, he indicated that the last 60 CMO cars having Youngstown doors (37380-37498, even) had this unusual side arrangement. 
Thanks much to Jeff Koeller for sharing this information that he had spent considerable time researching. 
Lastly, once upon a time was an overhead photo of CMO 1682 on eBay in which the U.S. Gypsum running board received yellow paint but with some black car cement overspray at the ends. A color photo available from Bob’s Photo provides a ground view of CMO 1672 also revealing yellow along most of the running board edge but some black overspray at the ends. 
Hope this helps.
Ed Hawkins

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