Re: D&H Panelside Twin Hoppers

Mark Heiden

Hello Jace,

Thanks for the brake component information. While digging around
the NEB&W website, it appears that D&H hoppers were painted "freight
car red" until sometime in the early 1940s, when they were painted

Mark Heiden

--- In STMFC@..., "Justin Kahn" <harumd@h...> wrote:
Some time ago, in an article on prototype operation, there was a
great shot
of a yard (C&NW?) in an issue of MM, and there was a nice sharp
view of a
D&H panelside hopper, which inspired me to letter up one of my
RailCraft panelsides for that prototype (and through this list I
discovered that the RC cars at 34' are correct only for Wabash/Ann
and the D&H were 30'). I'm sorry I can't be more specific, but
someone else
may be able to interpret my recollection to be able to use the
As Doug pointed out, the scan you reference shows the brake
rigging along
the centersill, but older twin hoppers did indeed have an airline
hung under
the side between the bolsters on brackets.
Although there may have been exceptions, the commonest placement
of the
triple (or AB) valve in a hopper was on top of the centersill,
under the
slope sheet--i.e, between the cylinder and reservoir, generally
facing the
reservoir, with the piping from the cyinder angled around the far
end to
enter the fittings facing the reservoir.
So far as I know, the D&H hoppers were always black, at least
since WWI, but
I cannot claim to be as knowledgeable as many on the list.
So far as door latches, I think that depended on what manufacturer
them; without being able to access various reference sources,
Enterprise and
Wine and Superior come to mind as all having different systems,
and I think
(again not claiming much expertise) that some were double-sided,
latched only on one side.
I'll let those who really know what they are talking about take
over from
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

What you see in the photo is the brake rod running between the
two brake
levers connected to the trucks and to the brake lever under the b
slope sheet. The USRA hoppers had the air line running just below
side sheets on the right side of the car, the side away from the

Doug Brown

I'm working on a model of the Delaware & Hudson rebuilt panel-side
USRA hoppers, and I have some questions regarding certain details.
These cars, rebuilt around 1938, were in the number series 3221-
4200. There is only one photo that I am aware of, and it is in the
pay side of the NEB&W website. For those who subscribe, it can be
found at:

My questions are:

1. When looking at the B-end of the car, the brake cylinder is on
the left, and the air tank is on the right. Where should the
valve be located, and should it face to one side of the car, or to
the back?

2. Should each hopper have a door lock? Unfortunately, I don't
what kind of locks the prototype had.

3. When viewing the car from the side, should there be a brake
running between the hopper be visible? (as, for example, this B&O
car: )

4. What color would these hoppers have been painted? What is a
paint match, preferably water based?

Any help is appreciated.

Mark Heiden



Message: 7
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:00:52 -0400
From: "John Riddell" <jriddell@i...>
Subject: Re: Canadian open hoppers in USA

Max Carey wrote -

Thanks for the information. For the reasons you gave, a Canadian
open hopper in the USA must have been a rarity. I can't imagine
kinds of freight would have moved from Canada to the USA in open


Iron ore is one example. Unit trains of open hoppers carried iron
ore from
northern Ontario to steel mills near Pittsburgh.
These unit trains consisted of hundreds of CN, Ontario Northland
and Canada
Southern open triple hoppers. But this was after the period of
this group,
from 1965 to 1971 .

Another example - in the west during the steam era, CP open top
coal gons
carried coal accross the border from the many large coal mines in
the Crows
Nest Pass of the Rockies.

In 1950, CN imported from the US 1.5 million tons of bituminous
coal while
CP imported 1.6 million tons. This was imported from PA and Ohio
southern Ontario and Manitoba. The further west and east regions
of Canada
were both self-suffient with coal reserves.

Hope this helps.
John Riddell



Message: 8
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 03:42:33 -0400
From: "Fred in Vt." <pennsy@s...>
Subject: Re: Re: McKean 40' PS-1 combo door box car


Thanks for the unhappy news, guess that's what you get
for not
going to the LHS every month!
Now I'll have to haul over to NY to the last 2 shops in the 50
mile zone.
All the donations to Mr Cook's retirement over the
past 8 years
was money well spent, no complaints. Surprises me that they WANT
resettle above 45 deg. No. Lat.; it's cold enough at this end of
the state!
Must be more modelers in the Burlington & Essex Jct. area. I wish

Fred Freitas
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Dermody
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: McKean 40' PS-1 combo door box car

> Bill,
> Garth is correct about Caboose Corner; Bob Cook keeps a
supply of
> kitbasher / scratch builder parts on hand. He will ship
anywhere, try
> 802-463-4575, Wed thru Sun, noon till 8:00pm.
> I'm always adding to his retirement fund !!!
> Fred Freitas / Pres
> New England Capter/ PRRT&HS
> Bennington, Vt.


Too late.

Caboose Corner has been sold. They had a final sale that ended
July 3rd
are scheduled to close on the property tomorrow, July 13th.

John (not Bob) and Sally will be moving to the Northeast
Kingdom, where
they'll build a new home. Rutland caboose 36 will be going
with them.

Sorry you missed the final sale - John would have welcomed
additions to
his retirement fund, especially now that he's really retired
(for the
moment, anyway).



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