Re: Piedmont & Northern cars


Yes, I've seen Bob's Photo list, and will be writing to get copies of
those pictures.

Art Griffin ( ) is the only source
I've found for P&N boxcar decals; his is for #1123, and as I've noticed
from the pictures I've seen, one car doesn't look like the next, so I
don't think it's transferable just by changing the numbers. However, it
could still be useful for doing more than one car, in that the set has the
triple lightning-bolt logo in it. I've ordered five sets for myself in TT,
along which for an extra $2 he's including a copy of the photograph he
used in making the decals. I'm looking forward to seeing the photo,
hopefully it's not broadside and one can determine the correct end to use
on the model. He lists it as being from 1923; 1953 ORER lists this series
as still having its full complement of cars of this series - it's very
possible, I think, that this car ran with this lettering until then, given
that other photos of similar liveries were taken at a later date. The '53
ORER lists only this series for the P&N, with the note that they weren't
interchanged. Whether this was always the case or not for this series,
even when there were other series in interchange, I have no idea.

Frank Valoczy
New Westminster, BC

If I remember correctly Bob's photo had a good selection of P&N boxcar
photos. I found the paint schemes most interesting on these cars. Are
there any known decals available? Todd Horton

-----Original Message-----
From: destron@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 2:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Piedmont & Northern cars

I've managed to piece together some information about P&N freight cars.

Dump cars:

In the 1931 Car Builders' Cyc there is on page 437 a photo of a Koppel 20
cubic yard dump car, number 8550. Probably for MoW, and lasted into at
least the 1950s - in the Fetters book there's a picture in which one can
be seen (p144), with no wires over the tracks, marking it as being after

Is there further information out there besides the 31 Cyc about the
"Koppel 20 cu. yd. Rolling Trunion Type RT-1 Dump Car"? On the same page
of that Cyc is a picture of a Reading car (#91455), identified in the
caption as being of the same type, but 30 cu. yd. There are also other
notable differences between the two, especially the reservoir(s).

Boxcars (1100 series):

The boxcar type with the most information out there is P&N series
1100-1124. 1950 and 1953 ORER lists them as 'steel frame', but this is
perhaps misleading as will become evident further along...

I have information for a few of these cars:

1101: Broadside photo on p165 of the Fetters book shows wood-sided SS car,
U-section Bettendorf or Andrews trucks, door similar to 1102 with small
difference (one pair of ribs has a larger space between them on 1101);
lettering as narrow Roman "Piedmont & Northern" on three lines above the
road number to the left of the door, and the triple-lightning bolt logo in
a circle (one of several versions of this logo I've seen) to the right.

1102: Hutchins ends, double sheathed wood sides after 1954 (no wires in
the photo, which I found online without credit or info). Lettering:
"Piedmont and Northern" inscription on three lines in an art deco-ish
Gothic typeface over the large road number (all to the left of the door),
to the right is a "Service with Courtesy" herald (unlike all the others
I've seen - probably a repainting, as at some point in the late 50s or 60s
they abandoned the triple lightning-bolt logo).

1108: I found a reference to this having Vulcan ends, but have yet to see
the photograph (on someone's list of photos).

1112: Photo in the 1954 P&N in-house publication "Piedmont Prodigy".
Hutchins ends, 6-5-6 doors (different than 1102!), trucks are difficult to
make out but look to be same as 1101. Lettering is "Piedmont & Northern"
on a single arched line centred over "P&N" above the roadnumber to the
left of the door, with the logo the same as on #1101 on the right. But,
this photo confuses the issue a bit as it looks to be steel sided - on all
the other photos I've seen, it's clearly wood sided. It may be just that
the image is too poor to make the lines out, but I doubt that - the
lettering seems undisturbed by grooves, and even some of the small data
can be made out.

1118: Saw mention of a photo of this car, with Hutchins ends. Atlas did a
model in O scale of a car lettered in the "Service with Courtesy" herald.
The ends on the model are incorrect, as they are not Hutchins ends, and I
haven't yet seen the photo of the prototype to say whether the lettering
is correct or not.

Boxcars (12000 or 17000 series)

On page 53 of the Fetters book there is a picture taken sometime in the
1920s of an electric loco in front of a string of P&N boxcars of what look
to be 12000 or 17000 series - single sheathed cars, wooden; the P&N did
have cars in interchange through the 20s and 30s, but whether this type
was or not, I don't know. Silver Streak or Ye Olde Huff and Puff did a kit
of a P&N wooden boxcar in HO scale at some point, numbered 12073, but from
the picture I have of this kit, it seems to be a model of a double
sheathed or an inside-braced car, which the prototype photo disproves (the
photo of the kit shows only a side wall). The other possibility is that
the prototype photo has cars marked in the 17000s, which would provide the
prototype for the early 1980s special run by MicroTrains of outside-braced
boxcars in N scale. This photo is thus far the only one I've found of
either a 12000 or 17000 series of boxcars. (I have photos of all of these
mentioned models).

Boxcars (24000 series):
This is the series that was sold in 1939 to Akron, Canton & Youngstown.
But, from what I've found, 150 were sold to the AC&Y (becoming the 2100
series), but according to the 1930 ORER, the P&N had 165 of them. I have
no idea whether the remaining 15 cars remained on the P&N, or if they were
disposed of some other way, or if the ORER is incorrect (as it sometimes
is). On this note: there seems to be a lot more information about the AC&Y
2100 series out there than any P&N stuff - does anyone know of drawings
and photos of these cars?

Lastly: Atlas made an O scale model of a PS-1 in blue colour, marked as
Piedmont & Northern no. 501. Fantasy? I've seen absolutely nothing to
suggest that the P&N received any new boxcars after dieselization...

If anyone has any further information about any of these cars, it'd be
enormously appreciated.

Frank Valoczy

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