Re: Trainman 70 ton Triple Hoppers

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Jim Eager wrote to MFCL 7-June-2005 about this model:
... basically a remake of the MDC 9-panel, which was never
great and definitely long in the tooth, but it looks to be
welded. If so, then C&EI/MP (longer), D&RGW (longer), MKT,
TNM, and TP/MP are it. If riveted then B&O, C&O, C&EI, C&I,
CG, CRR, FEC, GTW, M&StL, RDG, StLBE, and WM, although some
of those had arched or peaked ends.

Tom Haag then wrote:
I then compared it to drawings of a Southern AAR hopper car
that were in the 12/90 issue of MM. The Atlas car was about
a foot and a half longer that the car in the drawing.

Next I reread J. Eager's article on AAR 3-bay, nine-panel
hoppers in the 6/95 issue of RMJ. The article stated that
the Southern cars were a foot longer than the typical AAR
recommended design. Uh oh.

Finally the article said that the M&StL cars were two feet
longer than the typical car. Hmmmm.

So it appears that Atlas used a non-typical prototype to
model the AAR standard 9-panel hopper car.

So fans of the M&StL (and perhaps D&RGW and C&EI) may be
happy but modelers of RDG, CR, WM, CRR, C&O, C&I, CB&Q,
NH and others won't be.

No one has said -- is the model riveted or welded? Were the
Southern cars riveted, or welded?

Tim O'Connor


I stated that the Atlas Trainman is of riveted construction at least
this is what is visible on the side stakes. David Thompson suggested a
hybrid construction with a welded center sill and riveted side stakes,
etc. and that agrees with the description in the ACF ad.

I have this model and it represents this longer version of the "70-ton
AAR standard side-stake triple hopper". Based on the information in the
1953 C.B. Cyc. apparently both PSC and ACF introduced their larger cars
at about the same time. The ad for Pullman-Standard describes their
PS-3 which also was designed with a larger cubic capacity than the "AAR"
standard hopper described in the Mainline Modeler article.

It is not a B&O prototype so I have not researched this car further.
The B&O continued to order and build the AAR 70-ton standard off-side
side triple and 50-ton twin hoppers until 1959.

Does anyone have information about an alternate AAR standard design for
triple hoppers issued in the early 1950s? Was there a committee report
generated, but not accepted by AAR members? Was the motivation from
outside the AAR; from the railroads and the car builders? In the
1950s, there appeared to be movement towards larger hopper cars as
illustrated by designed generated by the PRR-C&O-N&W consortium and the
two designs offered by ACF and PSC.

Bob Witt

James D Thompson wrote:

The Atlas car is basically a hybrid welded/riveted car that AC&F
built for
C&O in the early and mid-1950s. The Stewart cars were: a late-1950s
ribside triple adopted as an alternate AAR standard; the
consortium car; and the AAR offset-side triple also recently done
by Accurail.


I respect your knowledge of hopper cars, but are you sure about what
stated? I just checked Al Kresse's book on C&O hopper and gondolas
cannot find any 70-ton C&O hoppers with the longer inside length as
modeled by the Atlas Trainman series hopper. As I stated in my
post the Atlas triple hopper appears closest in dimensions to the one
ACF advertised in the 1953 Car Builders' Cyclopedia. The Atlas model
represents a triple hopper that is sightly longer (IL 42'-8") than
ones built by ACF (IL 40'-6") or Bethlehem and others (IL 40'-8").
have of height of 10'-8" from the top of the rail to the top of the

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana

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