Re: Car travel of hoppers including "strays"

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>

Dave (and others interested);

Yeah, I think it was a bunch of discussion generated here, on the PRR list,
and perhaps here as well. I put some of it in the materials I have been
presenting in TKM, too.

I forgot; I also have a summary of the data I obtained for 1953 that shows
volumes, basic source areas, and some notes, for the ingredients used in the
production of hot metal and basic steel. I have yet to fully research all
the details on finished steel (like use of acids, etc. used in rolling), but
I will get there (eventually). I just added a bit more info. I also have a
separate list of stuff produced in the coking and coke by-products industry,
but I have to do a bit more work on that.

If you are anyone else who is interested would like to see a draft of the
"Steel Ingredients" info, send me an e-mail.

Take care,

Elden Gatwood


From: [] On Behalf Of
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Car travel of hoppers including "strays"

A hopper's operating range can be defined as the customers served by
mines in an area served by a "home road." If the coal was special
and in
demand such as the coal mined on the N&W, then the operating range
of an
N&W hopper could be large including going over UP's Sherman Hill in
Wyoming. For common coal with no special characteristics, the normal
operating range of a hopper could be quite limited.

Tim Gilbert

There was an intersting post, I think in the PRR sphere (probably
Yahoo group, but possibly in The Keystone Modeler - free on-line),
where someone has studied hopper usage, and I believe the conclusion
was that many hoppers would roam (but not in the quantities of
boxcars). There are many mineral commodities shipped by hopper, and
one discussed in the post/article was alloying minerals for steel -
which could require some pretty long hauls - from mines in the west
(or Canada) to steel plants in the east, and conversely, for minerals
not available in the US, east coast RR hoppers would be seen in the
midwest carrying minerals imported from other countries, usually via
east coast ports (Norfolk, Baltimore, Philly, NY area, etc.). Granted
the majority of hoppers were used for coal and iron ore, but it was
surprising how many other commodities were moved via hoppers in small
shipments (one or a few cars). Conversely, most coal and iron ore
shipments, even in the steam era, moved in dedicated trains, or very
large blocks within mixed freights. I would think these should be
predominantly local railroads, or railroads that directly interchanged.

The CNJ served several steel plants during the steam era (certainly in
the Bethlehem area), so depending on where in the CNJ you are
modeling, there could be an interesting mix - although there would
still be a lot of local RR hoppers with coal.

Bottom line is that a foreign hopper in a manifest freight isn't
outrageous - within reason - A YV hopper in a B&M freight is probably
stretching things a bit.

Dave Evans

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