Re: P&WV "Symbol of Service" paint scheme

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>


I should have known if someone had the knowledge, it would be you! Thanks
for setting me straight on that. I also went back and re-read some of your
earlier replies on the P&WV box cars and you definitely saved me a lot of
re-work on several fronts. I do not have the heart to go back and re-work
the underframe of the PS-1 to represent the earlier version, but it is
starting to look pretty good, otherwise.

I took a few minutes to look at that "color" shot on the P&WV website, and am
still convinced it has been "worked". A black P&WV box car with a 1954
scale/repaint date is still something I would like to see more evidence of.
The P&WV book has some insights on when they started to paint box cars black,
and I think it was 1958 or '59, according to them. I guess a good
representation of the P&WV would include some care to get this right.

I am also nearly done with the P&WV 7200-series container-service "Beth" gon,
and used Jack Consoli's P&WV decals to letter it, but the small lettering
right of the capacity data is still a mystery. Thanks to all that provided
input on that project, too!

BTW, RPC #17 is a GREAT read! The photos on the USRA cars and rebuilds are a
huge resource, and I am eagerly awaiting Pt 2 of the Airslide article.

Elden Gatwood


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Ed
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 11:42 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: P&WV "Symbol of Service" paint scheme

On May 22, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

That photo of a "red" box car with the "Symbol.." logo originally
appeared as
a black and white photo, with a scale date of 1954 or so, and
appears to have been colorized. That is why it has a grey background
on the
herald. Look at the photo closely. Do you see the green rendering of
grass? Does it look hazy, and like it doesn't apply to individual
blades? I
am very suspicious of that photo.

As far as I have also ever heard, the "Symbol of service" logo was
not found
on cars before about 1958, which is about the time they shifted to
black for
box cars. The symbol logo was not used on any channel hoppers I have
seen photos of, but was on the offsets, some of which were
rehabilitated in
that timeframe (1958 to ~ 1961). I have never seen photos of P&WV box
cars in
dates prior to about 1958, as evidenced by scale/re-weigh dates, with
symbol logo.
I offer the following information from in-service photos I have
acquired (all are B&W). Per photos in the 1200-series, the slogan was
in use by April 1954. Photos of 1200 series are from cars built 2-47 by
AC&F (series 1200-1299). Photos of the 1300 series are PS-1s built
11-48 (series 1300-1399).

#1231, RK. 4-54 reweigh, symbol of "Service" slogan, Col. Chet McCoid
photo at Tacoma, Washington, 2-18-55, Bob's Photo.
#1236, RK. 4-54 reweigh, symbol of "Service" slogan, Paul Dunn photo
ca. 1956, Richard Burg collection.
#1314, RK. 3-59 reweigh, symbol of "Service" slogan, Jay Williams
#1356, MAD. 11-52 reweigh, no slogan, Paul Dunn photo ca. mid-1950s,
Bob Lorenz collection.
#1358, BC 6-53 reweigh, no slogan, W.C. Whittaker photo 5-29-55 at
Portland, Oregon. (original paint)
#1375, NEW 11-48, no slogan, George Sisk photo June 1949 at Joplin,
Missouri. (original paint)
#1384, RK. 1-64 reweigh, symbol of "Service" slogan, Bob Lorenz
#1392, RK. 11-57, no slogan, photo taken 12-12-57 at Providence, R.I.,
Bob's Photo. (original paint)

I cannot tell with any degree of certainty what color these cars were.
The 1236 doesn't look black, but the photo was taken with full sunlight
on the broadside view, so anything is possible. I wonder if Paul Dunn
made any comments about the color on the negative sleeve.
Ed Hawkins

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