Re: P&WV "Symbol of Service" paint scheme

jim_mischke <jmischke@...>

The dates on some Paul Dunn negative sleeves are bogus. At times
they conflict with the reweigh date in the photo.

--- In STMFC@..., MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:

As someone who has handled many Paul Dunn negatives in their
original envelopes, I can say that Paul?rarely put color data on the
envelopes. His early negatives, to the end of the 1950s, were usually
in pale brown cash envelopes a little bigger then a 616 negative,
with the data typewritten on the envelope. In the 1960s he switched
to glassine envelopes with the data hand written on it.

That data usually included the railroad, car number, type, class,
location, and date. Only if the car color or marking was new or
unusual (such as one of the first PRR orange cabooses), did he add a
notation (such as "Orange" or "Large Lettering") on the envelope.

In the 1980s when he was selling off large parts of his negative
collection, he put a lot of negatives, which he evidently did not
take himself, in white envelopes made by cutting down larger ones and
sealing one end with a small sticker, with the data hand written on
the envelope. And that data was?quite unreliable, BTW. It appeared
that he had acquired the negatives from others who didn't supply
data, so he just made up whatever he liked. In extreme cases the
results were ludicrous: dates years before the cars were built or
last repacked, summer dates with several inches of snow on the
ground, and (in the days before run-through)?cabooses?hundreds of
miles from home rails. Sometimes he even ignored data that was hand-
inked on the margins of the negative.

To sum up: be wary of his dates/locations unless he is known to
have taken the negative himself, or it can be clearly identified via
other means as having been taken when/where he says it was. Many of
his own freight car negatives seem to have been taken in the PRR yard
along the banks of the?Muskingum River in Zanesville and are easily
identified by the background of tall trees. Paul did trade with other
photographers, but only occasionally did he specify who they were.

This is important, because Paul Dunn was one of the?relatively few?
photographers of freight cars. He apparently started to take them in
the early 1940s (though ones that old are rare), and kept at it
fairly heavily through the 1960s, when 616 film became scarce.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:41 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: P&WV "Symbol of Service" paint scheme

On May 22, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

That photo of a "red" box car with the "Symbol.." logo originally
appeared as
a black and white photo, with a scale date of 1954 or so, and
appears to have been colorized. That is why it has a grey
on the
herald. Look at the photo closely. Do you see the green rendering
grass? Does it look hazy, and like it doesn't apply to individual
blades? I
am very suspicious of that photo.

As far as I have also ever heard, the "Symbol of service" logo
not found
on cars before about 1958, which is about the time they shifted
black for
box cars. The symbol logo was not used on any channel hoppers I
seen photos of, but was on the offsets, some of which were
rehabilitated in
that timeframe (1958 to ~ 1961). I have never seen photos of P&WV
cars in
dates prior to about 1958, as evidenced by scale/re-weigh dates,
symbol logo.
I offer the following information from in-service photos I have
acquired (all are B&W). Per photos in the 1200-series, the slogan
in use by April 1954. Photos of 1200 series are from cars built 2-
47 by
AC&F (series 1200-1299). Photos of the 1300 series are PS-1s built
11-48 (series 1300-1399).

#1231, RK. 4-54 reweigh, symbol of "Service" slogan, Col. Chet
photo at Tacoma, Washington, 2-18-55, Bob's Photo.
#1236, RK. 4-54 reweigh, symbol of "Service" slogan, Paul Dunn
ca. 1956, Richard Burg collection.
#1314, RK. 3-59 reweigh, symbol of "Service" slogan, Jay Williams
#1356, MAD. 11-52 reweigh, no slogan, Paul Dunn photo ca. mid-
Bob Lorenz collection.
#1358, BC 6-53 reweigh, no slogan, W.C. Whittaker photo 5-29-55 at
Portland, Oregon. (original paint)
#1375, NEW 11-48, no slogan, George Sisk photo June 1949 at Joplin,
Missouri. (original paint)
#1384, RK. 1-64 reweigh, symbol of "Service" slogan, Bob Lorenz
#1392, RK. 11-57, no slogan, photo taken 12-12-57 at Providence,
Bob's Photo. (original paint)

I cannot tell with any degree of certainty what color these cars
The 1236 doesn't look black, but the photo was taken with full
on the broadside view, so anything is possible. I wonder if Paul
made any comments about the color on the negative sleeve.
Ed Hawkins

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