Re: Gould Railroad Standard Wooden Cabooses -



Although there may not have been a "formal" Gould standard for much of anything and if the results of my research is any indication, I'll suggest the Gould family (Jay & later George) practiced an extractive management style where the stockholder dividend was paramount and every thing else secondary. And towards the end, circa 1910-1911, George Gould couldn't borrow any additional monies, as his railroads had turned into "streaks of rust" as the result of deferred maintenance and had little prospect of generating profits without significant investments of capital.

The caboose examples, you cite, I'll suggest are a result of evolving technology & a changing regulatory environment.

The Eric Neubauer, Pullman-Standard Freight Car Production, copyright 2002, has a section enumerating Haskell & Barker car production prior to P-S purchase of H&B. And listed are two orders of steel center sill cabooses in 1909; one order from the Western Pacific (50 examples) and a second from the Denver & Rio Grande (10 examples). I have yet to discover photographs of these orders.

Regards, Mike Carson

PS. Incidentally, I appreciate your Sacramento Northern website, which through the SN association with the Western Pacific brought me to the subject of Gould cabooses.

--- In, "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:


Most of the Gould roads used similar equipment designs, especially with
locomotives. Cabooses seem to have followed similar, but NOT identical,
designs from at least around 1898 (MP, AC&F-built IIRC) into the 1920s
(WP post-Gould homebuilts). There were differences in almost every
order. In general Gould-road cabooses had the same body design, three
windows per side in the same positions, and wide platforms with
tender-type steps. Roofs and cupolas, however, varied quite a bit, and
underframes evolved from all wood to composite with steel center sills,
bolsters and needle beams.

As for the phrase "Gould standard", there was no such thing. I know,
because I originated the term, and wish I never had. I used to put it in
quotes with a lower case "s", but it has migrated into otherwise
well-researched railfan books and is treated as an official term. Bad,
bad, bad.

Kind regards,

Garth Groff

mbcarson2002 wrote:
Hello, List;

I recently have been investigating the later Gould Railroads. Mullet River Models (MRM) has recently released a Western Pacific Caboose, that is stipulated to be a Gould Standard Wooden Caboose. A series of Google searches lends credence to the stipulation. Other Gould system railroads were the Missouri Pacific, the Wabash, the Denver & Rio Grande, the Western Pacific & subsidiary roads.

Visually, a photograph of Western Pacific 764 matches the MRM kit, photographs of Missouri Pacific 333 - 369 series cabooses in Michels "Cabooses of The Missouri Pacific Lines", and the drawings and pictures in the Car Builders Dictionaries of 1916 and 1919. Plans in Mainline Modeler Volume I Number 4 (Sept/Oct 1980) suggest other Gould lines acquired similar, if not identical, cabooses.

Both the Car Builders Dictionaries and the Michels book give AC&F in 1911, as the builder of record.

Can anyone provide additional information, such as build lot numbers or details on other operators?

TIA, Mike Carson

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