Re: Long shot...

Gene <bierglaeser@...>

Tim and those few others who might be interested,

Those are not the cars about which Clark was inquiring.

To expand a bit on a previous post, the 23001-series of 50'-0" flat cars built by GATX in 1931 were black; all 100 of them for as long as they bore 23001-series numbers. Some of the cars from this series - 35 in 1959 (15101-15169) and 20 in 1960 (15171-15219) - were converted to piggyback service but, as far as I can tell, were still black but I can't be absolutely certain. Only photos tell for sure and they only document one moment in time.

The M&StL also had two other groups of flat cars, both 53'-6", for which the P2K flat car is correct except in some cases for one tiny little detail. More on that later.

The first group was 150 flat cars numbered 23501 through 23799. The M&StL built some of these and Hyman-Michaels built the rest, all between 1945 and 1948. Some were painted BCR, others black. Who built which is not completely clear from the existing records. Which were painted which color is similarly not clear. Again, photos are the only reliable source of information, in my opinion.

The final group, again the P2K flat car is correct (no detail exceptions) was built by GATX in 1952 and numbered 23801-23999. These were painted with " . . . two coats of Freight Car Red, M. & St. L. shade, Glidden No. MGL-4938." And "All stenciling to be done with Glidden White Stencil Paste No. 78-W-7."

To further cloud the issue, as if that were needed, there is a color slide of one of the M&StL 53'-6" flat cars painted green with yellow stenciling.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


One can be wrong -- because the answer is out there somewhere. There's
a 1959 color yard photo in Gene Green's Morning Sun M&StL In Color
(page 9) that shows 4 M&StL TOFC flats -- three are BCR, one is black.
I also have 1960's color photos of BCR M&StL flats, but since that is
past the STMFC era I didn't mention them before. Proto 2000's M&StL
AAR flat car is BCR, and I have a b&w photos of 23707 and 15113 that
both show small black lube stencil patches -- I think both cars are
BCR. The photos are from late 1940's to late 1950's. Gene's 1931 paint
instruction are definitive if you're modeling 1930's... I'm not sure
what time period Clark is modeling.

Tim O'Connor


If no one knows the answer, you can't be wrong whatever you do. :)

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

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