Date   

Cal Scale AB brakes

Gail & Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

I have nine sets of Cal Scale #AB-284 brass AB brake sets. One pack was
originally priced $1.50, seven were $2 and the other was $3.75. I don't know
where they all fall on the degradation curve, but if anyone needs them, get
in touch with me off-list. I won't be able to do anything until we return
from New Zealand on January 24, but I'll check my e-mail a couple of times
before we leave on Monday.

Best wishes to all for a happy holiday season!

Tom Madden


Re: P2K Tank Cars & K brakes

Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
 

Byron:

Unfortunately I am aware of this degradation of quality problem, since I
still have some Cal-Scale K brake sets purchased directly from John
Anderson in the early '60s (mostly on cars I must admit).

I've been using those sparingly and some of the Grandt ones also. How
do I order yours? (Part # & $ to send?)

Max
-------------------------------------------------------
email: m_robin@cheatriver.com

smail: Max S. Robin, P.E.
Cheat River Engineering Inc.
23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289
Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289

voice: 973 - 627 - 5895 fax: 973 - 627 - 5460
------------------------------------------------------


Kadee #58s: You asked for it

MDelvec952
 

Picked up a couple of sets of the new scale Kadees, No.58s, yesterday.
Overall, not bad looking, and more realistic than the old reliable
predecessor.

I put them on a couple of cars and a caboose, and I have a few observations.

First, the size looks pretty good, and I don't mind the look of the knuckle
from the side, as others have complained about. They're steel and will be
reliable. And the 58s couple well with the No.5s.

I once warned that with scale couplers (primarily the Seargants) the good
life in modeling would be over for making a hitch almost every time. In real
life every hitch must be watched as couplers cross or knuckles butt all the
time, and some cars won't couple to other cars on the slightest of curves or
on the curve of a switch, and so on. Even though the 58s center in the No.5
pocket, I found that as often as not, the hitches didn't make -- either the
couplers weren't exactly lined up or they crossed, and they wouldn't make
without adjustment on a No.4 switch, whereas the No.5 couples almost always
would. But this will all add to the realism of the operation and I'll
happily live with it for the better looking coupler. I'm one of those who
cuts off the actuating pins; prefer to make cuts by hand.

The chief beef, though, is that the already oversize coupler pocket is now
even bigger in relation. Byron mentioned this over the phone, but I didn't
realize how bad the pocket looks. It literally dwarfs the coupler and seems
to allow a greater travel. Wonder why a new coupler pocket wasn't designed.
These are, after all, scale couplers for the scale modeler. I would consider
building proper pocket faces on future kits, but who knows how reliable
they'll be after a couple of jacknifes and derailments.

Anyway, was wondering if anyone with a large railroad tried these yet, and
have they shoved a long train around a curve? I noticed on my little
shelf-top yard that the swing is so great that when shoving on a curve the
couplers kick out dangerously far. I'm sure the pockets and couplers will
hold up, but I was curious if it effects the tracking

....Mike


Re: P2K Tank Cars & K brakes

byronrose@...
 

On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:59:52 -0500 Kathe Robin <kathe@cheatriver.com>
writes:
Be aware that Cal-Scale (Bowser) has PERMANENTLY discontinued their
part
#199-290 and #190-291, which were KC brake sets in plastic and brass
respectively!! The mold is worn out/damaged, and since they were
doing
the brass sets via "lost plastic" casting, those got canceled also.

Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and the
order
rate just doesn't justify it. In fact he specifically said that
while
they redid the AB brake mold, the order rate is such that he figures
it
could be 35 - 50 years just 'till he recovers the money spent, to
say
nothing of lost interest and available capital for other product.

Sorry to be the messenger of bad/disappointing news.

Max
Max,

What Lee neglected to tell you was that they did such a poor job of
tooling it that anyone who's knowledgeable will shun them. Besides,
while they were off the market several others became available which have
permanently replaced the mess that the CalScale set had turned into. Try
comparing the castings as they were originally made 40+ years ago (or
Grandt Lines current set) to the current CalScale. The original patterns
had been distorted by their "repair" over the years to the point that the
AB valve was about half the height it should have been (you couldn't
attach more than 3 pipes where 6 need to be placed) and one side of the
reservoir was larger than the other half. The cylinder and retainer
valve were also shortened but nobody would know because nobody knows what
the correct sizes should be. Unfortunately, that is what Lee English
copied to make the new tooling. They got what they
bargained for.

The irony is that some of the new sets are no more than copies (rip-offs
is the technical term) of the inferior CalScale sets.

The best set on the market, IMHO, is from Grandt Line. The components in
it are closest to scale size. Try mounting a reservoir ATSF style with
the Tichy set. In my humbler opinion, my sets ain't too bad either!!

BSR (doing what he does best!)
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Re: Red Caboose "TW" reefer designation

thompson@...
 

John Nehrich asked:
I've just been studying the Red Caboose's web site for their PFE reefers.
Maybe I've missed something, but I don't see any explanation of the "TW"
designation. Is this something they made up for non-PFE cars?
John, you can look up the AAR type designations in the back of any ORER.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: K brakes

Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
 

Tim:

Do you have any Cal Scale K brake sets , plastic or brass, which you
would be interested in selling? I'll pay more than fair value!

Thanks,

Max
-------------------------------------------------------
email: m_robin@cheatriver.com

smail: Max S. Robin, P.E.
Cheat River Engineering Inc.
23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289
Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289

voice: 973 - 627 - 5895 fax: 973 - 627 - 5460
------------------------------------------------------


Re: K brakes

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 10:59 AM 12/23/00 -0500, you wrote:

Be aware that Cal-Scale (Bowser) has PERMANENTLY discontinued their part
#199-290 and #190-291, which were KC brake sets in plastic and brass
respectively!!

Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and the order
rate just doesn't justify it. In fact he specifically said that while
they redid the AB brake mold, the order rate is such that he figures it
could be 35 - 50 years just 'till he recovers the money spent, to say
nothing of lost interest and available capital for other product.

Sorry to be the messenger of bad/disappointing news.
Tichy makes excellent KC and KD brake sets, and I have tons of leftover
KC gear from kits. (99% of my stuff uses AB or later brakes.) I suspect
one reason the CalScale AB set is selling slowly is that he took too
long (several years!) in redoing the tooling and gave competitors (Tichy,
Details West, Detail Associates, Grandt Line, and even Pittsburgh Scale
Models) a chance to jump in with replacement products. I will never buy
another CalScale AB set because the competitive products are better --
The old CalScale Ajax brake wheel can't hold a candle to Kadee's.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: P2K Tank Cars & K brakes

Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
 

Be aware that Cal-Scale (Bowser) has PERMANENTLY discontinued their part
#199-290 and #190-291, which were KC brake sets in plastic and brass
respectively!! The mold is worn out/damaged, and since they were doing
the brass sets via "lost plastic" casting, those got canceled also.

Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and the order
rate just doesn't justify it. In fact he specifically said that while
they redid the AB brake mold, the order rate is such that he figures it
could be 35 - 50 years just 'till he recovers the money spent, to say
nothing of lost interest and available capital for other product.

Sorry to be the messenger of bad/disappointing news.

Max
-------------------------------------------------------
email: m_robin@cheatriver.com

smail: Max S. Robin, P.E.
Cheat River Engineering Inc.
23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289
Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289

voice: 973 - 627 - 5895 fax: 973 - 627 - 5460
------------------------------------------------------


Re: P2K Tank Cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Thanks Richard,
Easy to change the date and add KC brakes. I think either Tichy and/or
CalScale still have the KC brakes.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: P2K Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Group,
Just got bit by the P2K dating bug with a batch of 10K tanks I just
bought. This means the impossibility of telling what tanks you have without
unpacking the cars. Anyway the group of COSX I got are dated 5-46 and have
a big D-X on them. It's easy to change the 5-46 but if it's wrong (for '41)
to get rid of a large white D-X on one side. So my question is, can I live
with that big white D-X in '41 or must I remove it? For that matter is the
rest of the lettering OK or must the cars go?
Not to worry, Jon, I did the research on the lettering for those cars and
the billboard DX was current in 1941, so all you have to do is change the
reweigh dates. However, the date of 5-46 was chosen because we had a
prototype photo that showed a car with AB brakes, and it's likely that in
1941 most of the DX cars still had KC brakes (this assumption is supported
by photos in the Library of Congress archives which show COSX cars in Tulsa
during the war; where the brake equipment is visible, it's KC type).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


P2K Tank Cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Group,
Just got bit by the P2K dating bug with a batch of 10K tanks I just
bought. This means the impossibility of telling what tanks you have without
unpacking the cars. Anyway the group of COSX I got are dated 5-46 and have
a big D-X on them. It's easy to change the 5-46 but if it's wrong (for '41)
to get rid of a large white D-X on one side. So my question is, can I live
with that big white D-X in '41 or must I remove it? For that matter is the
rest of the lettering OK or must the cars go?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: "TW" reefer designation

Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 12/21/00 12:58:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, nehrij@rpi.edu
writes:

<< Dick - A wine car should be RB, the "B" being for beverage or beer, but
that's not a car with an internal tank. "TW" would be from the Tank
designation, with "W" meaning a wood tank, like a vinegar or pickle car.
(Meaning these didn't get the stainless steel or enameled tanks such as used
in GPEX milk cars and Chateau Martin cars.) >>

"TW" was the correct letter designation for the PFE refrigerator cars when
sold and converted to wine service (circa 1933-35). During 1935 the AAR
clarified, and/or added to, its list of M.C.B. designations for tank
cars--the "TW" designation read; A car equipped with one or more lined or
unlined wooden tanks or tubs. Note, "tank" car is not specified.

Modifications were made to this designation both in 1936 and in 1940. The
1940 description read; A car equipped with one or more wooden tanks, or, one
or more metal tubs. Such tanks or tubs may be lined. Car is sometimes
equipped with a roof.

By the 1950s the "TW" designation was greatly simplified to read; Tank car
equipped with one or more wooden containers.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
SParks, Nevada


Re: "TW" reefer designation

Dick Harley <Dick.Harley@...>
 

John,

Wooden tanks sounds good to me. Wine loves that stuff.

There is a page in the PFE book that gives the history of those cars, and
I believe that is where Bill McClung got the idea and data for doing them.

Dick Harley


Atlas pulpwood cars/offset hoppers with oval ends

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I'm puzzling through the Atlas kits for our Atlas section
(http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Kits/Atlas-kits.html#sets)

For most of their cars, the Atlas web site has a photo, so I can get the car number and the scheme they are using, but not so for their pulpwood cars. And the photos for their oval end offset twin cars doesn't seem to load (at least for me). If anyone has any of these kits handy and could read off the car number and reweigh date, I'd be grateful.
- John Nehrich


Re: "TW" reefer designation

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Dick - A wine car should be RB, the "B" being for beverage or beer, but
that's not a car with an internal tank. "TW" would be from the Tank
designation, with "W" meaning a wood tank, like a vinegar or pickle car.
(Meaning these didn't get the stainless steel or enameled tanks such as used
in GPEX milk cars and Chateau Martin cars.) Thanks - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Harley" <Dick.Harley@wdc.com>
To: <STMFC@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] "TW" reefer designation


On 12-20-00, John Nehrich asked:

I've just been studying the Red Caboose's web site for their
PFE reefers. Maybe I've missed something, but I don't see
any explanation of the "TW" designation. Is this something
they made up for non-PFE cars?
Since everyone else seems asleep, I'll venture a first cut answer from
here at work without my PFE book (I took it home during our move). PFE
sold some it's R-30-9's to wineries for wine transport. I believe they
took the ice bunkers out and made the cars essentially wine tank cars,
hence the 'TW' designation. I don't have an ORER here to check that ARA
designation, but that's the gist of it.

Dick Harley




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Re: "TW" reefer designation

Dick Harley <Dick.Harley@...>
 

On 12-20-00, John Nehrich asked:

I've just been studying the Red Caboose's web site for their
PFE reefers. Maybe I've missed something, but I don't see
any explanation of the "TW" designation. Is this something
they made up for non-PFE cars?
Since everyone else seems asleep, I'll venture a first cut answer from
here at work without my PFE book (I took it home during our move). PFE
sold some it's R-30-9's to wineries for wine transport. I believe they
took the ice bunkers out and made the cars essentially wine tank cars,
hence the 'TW' designation. I don't have an ORER here to check that ARA
designation, but that's the gist of it.

Dick Harley


Red Caboose "TW" reefer designation

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I've just been studying the Red Caboose's web site for their PFE reefers. Maybe I've missed something, but I don't see any explanation of the "TW" designation. Is this something they made up for non-PFE cars? - John Nehrich


Re: Branchline box cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Jeff Aley inquires earnestly

What's the latest on Branchline freight cars? Do they have
a version of their 50' box car that has a 10'6" IH and 4/4
early IDE's that can be used to model the UP A-50-18 and
A-50-21?
The answer is manifold as usual. NO, Branchline 50 foot kits
do not include any 4/4 IDE's, since that car's design is too
late for those pre-1950 ends.

HOWEVER, I expect Branchline to produce 4/4 IDE's for their
40 foot kit, since that would allow BL to apply quite a few
additional paint schemes on the same AAR body style.

BUT, both the UP A-50-18 and the A-50-21 have the wrong style
of side sheathing (alternate center rivet) and more importantly
the wrong number of panels (4&7 vs 5&8). So if Branchline were
to produce those UP cars we would have to sneer at them, no?

Long ago I asked Martin Lofton why he didn't do some UP A.C.R.
cars. (He later did the B-50-32/33 and A-50-16.) He replied he
didn't think UP models would sell very well. I don't know why
he thinks that is so. I'd love to see more accurate UP kits.
As an SP modeler I've been blessed the last 10 years -- every
major SP 40 foot box car from the 1920's to the 1950's is now
available, and a fair number of 50 foot cars are too. The UP
modelers (and I am one) have far fewer to choose from.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Complaint

byronrose@...
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:12:08 -0000 "Max Robin" <m_robin@cheatriver.com>
writes:
Welcome back Byron!!

And just what size were the rivets used on the thousands of channel
side hoppers on the WM to secure the channels to the side sheets and

framing?
Thank you Max.

As I recall from the 2-3 WM channel sides that I saw several years ago in
Harrisburg, the rivets are slightly larger than the ones used in box car
siding. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say they were probably 1/2"
rivets with a full 1" diameter head. In HO modeling terms, the NWSL
.010" rivet set would be awful close, especially after painting.

I recently saw a GA drawing of WMs built in the 30s but didn't have time
to study such details. If I get another chance, I'll let you know.

Or, next time I'm in H'burg, I could measure them on the cars still
extant, those being of the 1952 rebuilt variety. I will probably be
there this spring.

Byron
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Re: Complaint

Max Robin
 

Welcome back Byron!!

And just what size were the rivets used on the thousands of channel
side hoppers on the WM to secure the channels to the side sheets and
framing?

Max

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