PRR Freight Car Urban Legends (was Re: Underrepresented roads and car types)
Rich Orr wrote:
"As I recall the car was repainted in the P/L of the road then in possession of the car. It was later identified by the purely PRR trucks and the C/N and original car number on the center sill. Or I could be thinking of another piece of lore."
You're probably thinking about the Class F22 or F23 flatcar converted to a snowplow by the Mason City and Clear Lake, later owned by the Iowa Interstate. See messages 46525 and 27798 for this thread. (No, I don't wante to get into this topic again six+ years later.)
Re: Underrepresented roads and car types (UNCLASSIFIED)
--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:
That was the LaSalle & Bureau County RR, which misappropriated a bunch of cars from the Penn Central, but it wasn't for the desire to make the cars look better and help Pennsey out; it was outright theft, and as I recall, some people did prison time.
It also happened after the cut-off of this list.
I'm going to join the side that says the repainting on a foreign road is an urban legend. The only work a foreign road will do is work where there is a standard AAR charge for the work, otherwise they will have no way to get paid. I doubt the AAR set a charge for repainting cars. I would imagine that they did have a charge for re-stenciling, as the car is unusable if the reporting marks can't be read, so that IS likely.
Re: Underrepresented roads and car types (UNCLASSIFIED)
As I recall the car was repainted in the P/L of the road then in possession of the car. It was later identified by the purely PRR trucks and the C/N and original car number on the center sill. Or I could be thinking of another piece of lore.toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 12:47 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Underrepresented roads and car types (UNCLASSIFIED)
Until you mentioned this car having been repainted off the PRR, I'd have allowed
that this was within the realm of possibility.
I just don't think that the Pennsy would lend out their stencils to an off-line
road or shop. So given a paint life of 15-25 years, this car would have been
re-painted at least once--off-line?? I suppose some industrious car shop
painter could have either used their road's stencils or made ersatz Pennsy
stencils when it came time to letter the car? I find this a little hard to
--- In STMFC@..., anthony wagner <anycw1@...> wrote:
reading long ago, probably in "Trains", that in the aftermath of the PC merger
someone in the car service department found records of an X29 that had beenwithout
ever having come back to the Pennsy. Don't know if it is true, but havingworked
for a railroad for many years before incentive per diem rules changed things,it
certainly seems plausible. Tony Wagner
Yahoo! Groups Links
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
In this thread I've seen many mentions of "oddly" numbered cars in photos, almost as if they weren't real without photographic proof. Isn't it quite reasonable to believe that when an ORER listing has series 12300-12399, 100 cars in service, that car 12345 existed, even if no one ever filmed it?
Re: NMRA Conventions
--- In STMFC@..., "Andy Harman" <gsgondola@...> wrote:
- snip -In the past I have given copies of my clinic presentation to people
who requested them - and had the flash drive in hand to do it right there. Since theseFor the past several years, my approach at local NMRA division shows has been to generate the Clinic presentation in Corel Presentations (R) (their equivalent of PowerPoint (R)) and provide a "handout" in electronic form as an Adobe PDF that can be copied to a thumb drive. If photos are from my own collection, in the public domain, or have been cleared for distribution by the owner, they are reproduced at reasonable size and resolution (300 dpi 5X7). Otherwise, they are either reproduced as low resolution thumbnails with source information - if appropriate permission has been obtained - or replaced with the statement "Permission to Distribute has not been received". I generally find that commercial purveyors of photographs have, when asked, been happy to have a small "catalog illustration" of a photograph made available to remind the viewer what the subject was so they can order a regular print themselves.
Re: Sunshine "Type 17"
Thanks Bill. Your reviews and revisions to the instructions are always
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 2:58 PM, William Darnaby <wdarnaby@...> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The photo RVN01407 that Al Brown mentions is posted at the Ronald Nixontoggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Collection of the Museum of the Rockies, with the caption provided by
Nixon, "Thought you might like a couple of unusual shots. This is NP
12275 and L&A 12275 in 602 at Glendive (MT) in September 1938. Both cars
were loaded with grain for Duluth. Railroad Magazine said the odds of
such an occasion were 782,000,000 to 1."
On 5/18/2011 3:22 PM, al_brown03 wrote:
Sunshine "Type 17"
I have recently assembled a pair of the Sunshine GATC "Type 17" 8k tank
cars, a D-X and a Tarvia. This kit is well done and builds into a fine
model. The instructions leave a little to be desired, however.
I recommend building up the center sill per the instructions to the point of
completed draft gear covers, rivet plates and tank support timbers. Do not
add the walkway casting, C channel walkway supports (note in the in process
photos that these are installed upside down!), and bolsters yet. At this
point you will have the complete center sill. Sight down it and make sure
it is straight. Correct if necessary.
Attach the tank to the sill with stout rubber bands. You will notice that
the two tank anchor flanges are wider than the sill. Bend them inwards
until they sit on the sill. You will also notice that these flanges hold
the tank above the timbers so file them down until the tank sets on the sill
timbers. Once satisfied with the tank position on the sill drill and tap
for 2-56 though the sill and into the tank. Do not glue the tank to the
sill yet. With the truck screws tightened and now holding the tank and sill
together sight down the sill to see if it is still straight. You will
likely notice that that either the screws have pulled the sill up at the
tank ends or that there is a gap between the tank and the short end timbers
just under the tank ends. I found that .015 strips of styrene had to be
added to the tops of these timbers so the sill is straight and level with
the tank. You will also have to add the same styrene to the tops of the
short timbers at the end of the draft gear that support the walkway to
properly position the height of the walkway.
Take the four individual bolsters and, using sandpaper wrapped around the
tank, create the tank curvature in the bolster timbers. Tack them in
position to the sill with Barge Cement or equivalent. Position and tack the
walkway to the draft gear timbers. Slide the two C channels into their
slots between the center sill timbers but do not attach. Sight around the
walkway to check that it is level and in contact with the C channels and
draft gear timbers. When satisfied, attach the four small walkway supports
to the bolsters, not the walkway yet, just above the poling pockets while
maintaining level support for the walkway at all its points. When happy
with everything, permanently attach the bolsters to the sill, not the tank,
and add the bolster caps to tie everything together. I know this sounds
complicated but I've found it's the only way to be sure of avoiding a wavy
walkway around the car.
Remove the walkway and C channels. Separate the tank and sill and add the
trainline pipe. Complete the tank assembly by adding weight, gluing the
halves together, drilling holes and adding grabs. Reattach the tank with
Through numerous resin tank kits I have found it is easiest to add the bands
without the walkway in place. The instructions are a bit vague about how to
make the bands out of the provided .010 x .030 brass strips and there aren't
enough in the kit anyway. Besides, I found them too thick and prefer to
make my own out of .005 shim brass by cutting out four strips 4 inches wide.
This is a little too wide but leaves margin for drilling the holes in them
for the handrail supports. The end ones ended up being 15' long, 19' for
the center ones. I made the band rods out of .015 wire and soldered them to
the ends of the bands. Leave the rods long for trimming later. Drill
through the four bolster walkway supports for the band rods. This has to be
done from the top as the holes will be just above poling pockets (see
prototype detail photos). If they are outboard of this they will interfere
with the walkway. Find the two center band anchors, drill them for the rods
and attach to the sill. Install all of the bands. Finally, glue the tank
to the sill and bolster timers.
Install all of the sill step details, cut levers and grabs to the walkway.
Install the C channels and attach the walkway to the tank and sill assembly.
From this point on follow the directions.
Green, "The Pacific Northwest Railroads of McGee and Nixon," p 185, shows Northern Pacific 12275 coupled to Louisiana & Arkansas 12275, on the NP at Glendive, Montana.toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
I decline credit for that X28A, it's from John LaRue's collection (neg.
#16561). I don't think Dunn ever got to Philly, so the photographer is
probably a mystery. You can often tell Dunn's shots, they look like they are
shot from the vantage angle of a little kid. I've seen photos of him and he
was very short. For sometime I tried to mimic his shots by shooting from my
Re: UP models under represented?
It ain't correct. You've probably got a McKean model. I have one too,
modified with roof hatches per prototype. It's close but there are a
number of discrepencies compared to the prototype.
Hmmm. I've been wondering who did produce it. No One, huh? Strange name...
I don't recall it. The car IS real, BTW, Superior door and welded sides and
Re: NMRA Conventions
Al, I know you enjoy giving the clinics, but as a VENDOR in the past,toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
your presentations did provide at least a small tailwind to help sales
of the products that you made. In other words, they had some value as
advertising. Many clinicians don't make a dime from any aspect of the
hobby, and waiver of the fee can really help. The NMRA advertises their
conventions in publications and on the web, so I don't see why waivers
could not be included in their advertising budget.
Tony - I couldn't disagree more. Until last year I had given a clinic at the national for about 20 straight years. I never expected anything. I occasionally got a presenter's badge, a certificate or even a plaque. This is a volunteer organization. I LOVE to give clinics. In fact, I often carry one around with me to a meeting in case of a no-show. If giving a clinic is too much of a bother without getting compensation, don't volunteer. - Al Westerfield
CB&Q FM-14 Look-alikes
I’m new to this list and have found the discussions to be very interesting
and informative. Thanks for letting me participate.
I’m primarily a CB&Q modeler and my HO scale layout (which is getting
rebuilt after a move from St. Louis) is centered around Burlington, Iowa.
One of the major rail shippers in Burlington was the J.I. Case plant using
flats to ship in steel, and to ship out combines, backhoe/loaders, crawlers
(bulldozers) and skid-steer loaders. I’d like to mix up the flats that
would have been used out of the factory and was wondering how many railroads
rostered 53’ 6” flat cars that were identical in design, or very close to
the CB&Q’s straight side sill, fishbelly underframe FM-14 (89100-89250,
92000-92349) and FM-14A flat cars (89300-89599, 92400-92799, 93000-93399).
I’ve uploaded an image from the Q’s diagram book of this car to be posted to
the photo area of the list for comparison purposes.
I’ve checked the list archives for this information and in my library. I’ve
found that the ATSF had FT-19s that look similar, the FW&D had ex-Q
FM-14/14A flats (641-676) and the GN had the FC 60200-602224 series flats.
I thought it would be a fun exercise to tap into the collective knowledge of
the list membership and find out which other roads had these 53’ 6” flats.
I hope others agree.
CB&Q fan from Pooler, GA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Reading a mini-CD on Apple/MAC equipment
A customer who uses an Apple Mini computer wrote me recently outlining the
steps he took to access the information on the mini-CDs that I include in
kits. These CDs contain all of the kit instructions and prototype pix and
are required to build a quality kit. The Word file(s) is(are) burned to the
disc after printing in .pdf format. While this format may not create
problems for Apple users, the small disc size does for computers that can
only read full-size discs.
One of these Apple users was kind enough to outline steps taken to solve the
"communication gap" between operating systems. Click on my web site, then
the bottom tab on the menu ("Apple/MAC Users"). If anyone has further
questions or other techniques, please contact me off-list.
Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.
Ph. (828) 777-5619
Re: NMRA Conventions
All I can say Doug is that none of the 4 Prototype Modeling gatherings I have spoken at overt the years has ever expected presenters to pay for registration.toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
--- In STMFC@..., "Douglas Auburg" <cdauburg@...> wrote:
Re: Great Northern boxcar
Here is one in Glacier Greentoggle quoted messageShow quoted text
--- On Wed, 5/18/11, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Great Northern boxcar
Date: Wednesday, May 18, 2011, 2:08 PM
I am certain this subject has come up before, but I can't locate the
emails. GN rebuilt 50' single sheathed, single and double door auto cars
with steel sides in the 1950's. The single door cars can be modeled
with the Westerfield kits which have the fishbelly underframe and ends
needed for the project. It looks like this double door car got new ends
as well as a new roof.
I have a photo of one of the cars, Richard Hendrickson's model of
GN 39345, which is a single sheathed car painted in the Empire Builder
From Scott R. Thompson's "Great Northern Color Pictorial - Vol 1", page 90:
Series 40100 to 40299 - rebuilt from outside braced box cars in 1954 -
original series - 29000 to 29899 - built 1925.
Outside steel sheathing, Pullman ends and roof, upgrade brake equipment.
Two 7' wide Camel doors, Universal handbrake, friction bearing trucks.
IL = 50' 6"
IW = 9' 2"
IH = 10' 6"
4862 cubic capacity
110,000 load capacity.
Re: Top 20 North American Freight Car Fleets, January 1949
Just like trying to nail Jell-O to the wall <S>,.A Premotoggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 3:31 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Top 20 North American Freight Car Fleets, January 1949
Armand Premo wrote:
> Tony,Then does that mean I should disregard all the other evidence
> that I have ,or have seen? :- )
You can (and we know, you will) treat the evidence any way you
wish. It's when you generalize about it that I get concerned <g>.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: NMRA Conventions
Speaking of shows, it just dawned on me that the Naperville (now Lisle) meet is
currently scheduled for the same weekend as the Rosemont iHobby Expo (or whatever it's
now called). First time in 10(?) years? I will probably go to Rosemont Sunday, unless
somehow I can rep for somebody and get in on Thursday. Has been a while, I think 03 was
the last time I went to the Rosemont show.
Overland O Scale PRR F39 TOFC Flatcar for sale
I have decided to sell my Overland O Scale PRR F39 TOFC Flatcar
http://www.lanestrains.com/O_Scale_F39.jpg The car and jack stands have a
pristine glossy coat of Scalecoat PRR Freight car red on it. I bought some
Champ decals that were supposed to be for the F39. After some closer
inspection this morning against some builders photos, the decals are pretty
wrong so I decided to not decal the car. Nonetheless there are 3 sets
included in the sale of the car. The car is otherwise minty and never run. 2
Kadee coupler boxes are included and are painted with the car. Couplers are
If you are so inclined and **really** want the Champ decals put on the car
it can be done.
Please reply directly to bill@... with your questions or offer.
Bargain hunters need not reply. I paid a premium price for the car
unpainted. I don't have to sell it but have decided that I will never use
Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1988
See my finished models at:
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!
Custom Train Parts Design
PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)
***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join! <http://www.prslhs.com/> http://www.prslhs.com
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL
New England/Northeast Tentative Clinic Schedule Posted
The tentative schedule and list of clinics for the New
England/Northeast Prototype Modelers Meet has been posted to our
This year’s meet is our 9th and we hope you’ll consider joining us in
Collinsville, Connecticut, Friday and Saturday, June 4 and 5 for
clinics, programs, a model display and a gathering of a great group of
like-minded modelers. On Sunday June 6 we’ll have layout open houses.
We’ll be joined by several great manufacturers and vendors, including
Bob’s Photo, Speedwitch Media, Funaro & Carmerlengo, Sheepscot Scale
Models, Rapido, Short Line Hobbies, Stella Scale Models, Reboxx, the
Hobby Gallery, Railroad Hobby and Model Supply, Dave’s Trains, New
England Brownstone, the Outer Station Project, Motrak Models, the New
Haven Railroad Technical And Historical Association, and the Penn
Central Railroad Historical Society.
The meet will also feature a staffed white elephant table where you
can drop off your items for sale. If they sell, our staff will collect
and hold the money for you. There is no charge to sell anything,
although donations are welcomed.
We’ll also conduct our fundraising door prize drawing of items donated
by a host of great manufacturers and vendors.
Looking forward, we’ll be celebrating a milestone at the 2012 meet.
Next year will be our 10th anniversary meet. (Yeah, we’re kind of
stunned about it too.) Anyway, we’re planning some special events for
the June 1-2, 2012 meet, and for the first time we’ll offer a special
incentive at this year’s meet to those who choose to register early
for 2012. Look for details at the meet. Here’s a hint: It involves the
Amherst Society’s Big Railroad Hobby Show in West Springfield, Mass.
For more information about the meet, please check our website or
contact me at neprotomeet@... or 860-233-0303.