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Re: S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

First, the side sills are incorrect for any SS or DS rebuild - there is
no noticeable inset, and the brackets are actually closer to those used
on Pennsy Class X29 rebuilds than anything used on an SS or DS rebuild.
There were some clone rebuilds that had flush sills, Wabash comes to
mind. Also, RF&P's lone s/s rebuild had flush sills. As for the brackets,
some rebuilds used a t-shaped piece rather than a triangular cast bracket.

David Thompson


S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Hello all,

Normally I try to avoid posting info outside of my scale, but I just posted
a reply on the Pennsy list concerning these cars and I thought I'd share of
my thoughts here with the list, especially Jeff English, Earl Tuson, and the
local S scale community.

S Helper Service recently released a "40 ft Rebuilt Boxcar" in S Scale
(http://www.showcaseline.com/index.html). Unfortunately, the model has a
number of serious shortcomings.

For those who came in late here at STMFC, some quick notes on the
prototype: Even though Youngstown marketed kits to the railroads during
the 1930s to rebuild single- and double-sheathed boxcars, each individual
railroad approached rebuilding cars in a different manner, with some roads
simply replacing the sides while retaining the original roof and ends;
others replacing the sides and roof while retaining the ends, and one (KCS)
doing a USRA DS rebuild in 1949 by fitting a modern boxcar body, ends and
all on top of the old underframe. Almost all rebuilds increased the height
of the car, and railroads took different approaches to making the ends
taller, with some adding a blank panel and others splicing in sections of
Murphy ends. The cars were also widened - a reliable spotting feature of a
rebuilt SS or DS boxcar is an indented side sill with trapezoidal or
triangular brackets supporting the new steel sides. The wider cars required
end modifications as well - most railroads simply used an angle to join the
ends to the side creating an indent there, but some roads used sheet metal
to widen the ends creating a more familiar square corner. The original
trucks were almost always reused; the underframe was always reused. The net
result is that rebuilt boxcars were unique to each railroad. For a more
detailed account of USRA DS rebuilds, see "Steel Side USRA Rebuilds," Parts
1 and 2 by Martin Lofton in the September and October 1989 Railroad Model
Craftsman.

The Model: The S Helper Service model has some serious problems with the
sides. The model has eight-panel steel sides, which is correct for many of
the rebuilds except those who used ten-panel sides (ATSF, PRR). However,
the sides have two problems. First, the side sills are incorrect for any SS
or DS rebuild - there is no noticeable inset, and the brackets are actually
closer to those used on Pennsy Class X29 rebuilds than anything used on an
SS or DS rebuild. Without this inset, the car is too narrow and fails to
capture the look of a wider new carbody fitted to a narrow older underframe.
In fact, it's pretty obvious that the tooling for this car was modified from
SHS's USRA SS
boxcar.

Here's a rundown of the model's details:
Roof: Original USRA steel sheathed roof.
Ends: Unmodified 5/5/5 Murphy ends.
Sides: Eight-panel sides. No distinct inset side sill. T-section support
brackets.
Underframe: USRA SS car (?)

This model is probably closest to the ACL and SL-SF USRA DS rebuilds;
however, the side sills are wrong and the model lacks the heavy fishbelly
underframe of the DS rebuilds.

This model is better left to the American Flyer crowd. Serious S scalers
deserve better.


Ben Hom


Freight car siding

Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Now, I really know better than to open this can of worms, but having to
face a project on my desk, I just have to ask...

I'm working on building a PRR wire train rider/tool car, and wanted to use
a Westerfield PRR MOW XL commisary car as a starting point. From a photo
Al Buchan sent me, I can tell that the siding on these cars is V grooved,
with what appears to be a 3" board width, but is in reality a 6" board
width with a center V-grove as well as a V-groove edge (as was applied to
most PRR wood cabins). I wanted to match the siding used for the masters
for the Westerfield XL, but I can't seem to do it. Evergreen V-groove
(.03", .04") has either too wide or too narrow a spacing and Evergreen car
siding (3.5" boards IIRC) is just off a little bit in the spacing (actually
too narrow, indicating that the Westerfield model has boards that are a
little too wide <G>).

Any suggestions on matching the siding on these?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: UP freight cars?

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Ted Culotta wrote:

That's cause they're the real thing... original photos
and photoshop. They look just "modely" enough to
confuse people.

And I thought they even read Mike Brock's backdrop painting article
too, what with the Rockies in the background! ;-)


Ben Hom
I hear they have a killer Rutland green and yellow paint scheme for
these cars too...

(Seriously though, Marklin did contact John Nehrich for info on doing
that scheme on these cars, who, of course, told them that would be
somewhat less than correct. Needless to say, that raised more than a
few concerns about how Marklin will market these models.)


Re: UP freight cars?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor asks:
Any news on these?

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/new%20products/marklin/upmodelsmain
.html
My very first stop during the National Train Show at Lauderdale will be at
the Marklin booth. Does this mean I'll know anything that isn't known now?
The answer to that is best done by using the same reply that a member of the
ex SP 4449 crew gave me when I asked if I called the SP dispatcher back in
'91 [at the Railfare] would he give me the scheduled time of 4449's
departure from Sacramento......."Probably not"....and my answer would be
given in the same tone as his. Still...

Mike Brock....What? Me need an H-70-1?


Re: UP freight cars?

Ted Culotta <ted_culotta@...>
 

--- Don Winter <guaruba@...> wrote:
Wow! Those cars are VERY realistic! Don Winter
That's cause they're the real thing... original photos
and photoshop. They look just "modely" enough to
confuse people.

Ted


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Re: Flat car/Navy Generator car

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Bruce,

That's weird. I've never seen anything like it. Your guess is probably close to correct, maybe mounting
points for snubbers of some sort. I would not be surprised if the car originally had some other type of
truck, since there doesn't seem to be a corresponding mounting point on the arch bars in the picture.

Also notice that the truss rods are bolted or riveted to the side sill, rather than running over the
bolsters and ended at nuts in the end sills. And isn't that exhaust stack great?

The military owned a lot of really strange cars, many built or rebuilt for special purposes, or for
foreign use. Since a great many were never intended for interchange, they could get away with some really
bizarre stuff.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

"Bruce F. Smith" wrote:


Afternoon y'all,

I am reposting this to this group with the author's permission. I have put
the photo on my site at
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/NavGenCar.jpg

Does anyone know what this car was before a shop built a shed on the deck to
house a diesel generator? What might give you a clue is the
"half-of-a-hinge" on the side sill just a ways back from the side step.
There is a small chain hanging from one end of the hinge that has a small
pin attached. It looks like it might have been used to secure a larger pin
that would go into the holes of both parts of a hinge. There is a device
like this on all four corners of the car.
The car appears to me to be a truss rod flat car and the device in question
is centered over the bolster. Was it some sort of external bearing for the
truck? Any help would be most welcome!


Re: UP freight cars?

Don Winter <guaruba@...>
 

Wow! Those cars are VERY realistic! Don Winter


Flat car/Navy Generator car

Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Afternoon y'all,

I am reposting this to this group with the author's permission. I have put
the photo on my site at
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/NavGenCar.jpg

Does anyone know what this car was before a shop built a shed on the deck to
house a diesel generator? What might give you a clue is the
"half-of-a-hinge" on the side sill just a ways back from the side step.
There is a small chain hanging from one end of the hinge that has a small
pin attached. It looks like it might have been used to secure a larger pin
that would go into the holes of both parts of a hinge. There is a device
like this on all four corners of the car.
The car appears to me to be a truss rod flat car and the device in question
is centered over the bolster. Was it some sort of external bearing for the
truck? Any help would be most welcome!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: UP freight cars?

Ted Culotta <ted_culotta@...>
 

--- Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...> wrote:

Any news on these?

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/new%20products/marklin/upmodelsmain.html

They're not due until this Fall.

Ted

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UP freight cars?

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Any news on these?

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/new%20products/marklin/upmodelsmain.html

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: FGE reefer paint

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/models/welch/welchmain.html


Does Bill Welch have his JPEG's somewhere on the WWW? I don't see anything
in the photos or files sections of STMFC.

Jack Wyatt

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Flat car decks etc

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Jul 11, 9:54am, Bruce F Smith wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Flat car decks etc
Also, I do not know about the
battleship gray deck as even rotten wood has a brown tinge. Anyone got
any
suggestions what to use from a prototype perspective ?
I agree that the LL deck color, while an improvement, isn't right....I
paint my decks with depot buff to represent relatively new wood and RR
tie
brown for older wood...note that flat car decks were rarely creosoted so
they will age to a different color than RR ties. I often blend the two
paint on a palatte and then paint them on...the blending is incomplete
at
best as I want darker streaks and lighter streaks...best done before the
deck is added to the car, and with several, you might try to make the
"newest" car have the newest looking deck <G>.
My favorite technique is to apply layers of color, then remove parts of
the layers. I suggest layers of grey, buff, and dark brown. (Apply the
colors one at a time, and allow to dry before adding the next color).

Once the layers are in place, I apply a brass bristled-brush (I suppose
medium or coarse sandpaper would work) to "wear away" the layers.

Little wear = dark brown (as of wood exposed to the elements)
Heavier wear = buff (as of freshly-exposed wood in gouged areas)

The grey just provides a base and some variation in the heavily-worn
areas.
It might make more sense to apply the layers as buff, brown, gray
(driftwood), and then wear away most of the gray...


Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: FGE reefer paint

C J Wyatt
 

<<For brand new stuff, I would just try to match the color JPEG's of Bill
Welch's reefers! ;o)

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts>>

Tim, thanks.

Does Bill Welch have his JPEG's somewhere on the WWW? I don't see anything
in the photos or files sections of STMFC.

Jack Wyatt


Re: FGE reefer paint

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jack Wyatt asked:

Does Bill Welch have his JPEG's somewhere on the WWW? I don't see
anything in the photos or files sections of STMFC.


They're over at Ted Culotta's website:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/models/welch/welchmain.html

Enjoy!


Ben Hom


Re: FGE reefer paint

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

I'm starting on some FGE/WFE wood reefers by Sunshine. I'm curious what sort of box car red was used on the ends of these cars through the forties. Does anyone have any good paint mixes for the FGE red? For the yellow, Sunshine recommended a mix of 10 parts <reefer?> yellow to one part <reefer?> orange, with a touch of brown. Does anyone have any other recommendations for the yellow, or does the Sunshine mix sound pretty good? I'm a bit worried that my normal grimy black paint wash for weathering might cause some of the same color shift that is intended in the above mix.
Jack I like to start with Accupaint Imitation Gold AP-22 as a base color
for WFEX/BREX/FGEX yellows. It's a good faded yellow that can be shifted
towards orange or brighter yellow by the addition of other colors. It is
used by intermodal modelers to represent faded TTX yellow. Another good
base (more dirty brownish) is CP Action Yellow. Just remember no two reefers
should be exactly the same color, unless they're right out of the shop.

For brand new stuff, I would just try to match the color JPEG's of Bill
Welch's reefers! ;o)


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Rivets-AISC book

ABDean <bdean@...>
 

I may be too late to jump into this discussion , but before everyone
runs out to the nearest college bookstore to buy the most current
AISC Manual , please note that many steel connections, details, and
sections have been removed from current steel fabrication practices
(in favor of hi-tens welding and bolted connections and higher
strength steel materials), plus as another reader pointed out, the
common "car building" sections have been replaced as well.

Best bet would be to dig around used book sites for AISC manuals from
the 40's and earlier, when those methods were still "en vogue" -
however, I'm not sure what all this information is going to do to for
a model builder other than give him a migrain.

The book this gentlemen found is probably the Architect's reference
guide book that shows the basic dimensional properties of steel
sections, plate, etc. This would be worth having - if only for the
building component.

Buck Dean, P.E.
Lexington,KY


Re: Flat car decks etc

Bruce F Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, ian clasper wrote:
First, I have several LL P2K war emergency flats to build.
I have a choice of using either the kit deck, or AMB's self adhesive laser
cut wooden deck. Question is, which one is best? I have already built one
flat with the AMB deck. This deck fits very well and the real wood takes
weathering and simulated abuse very well. The kit one does look ok, however
the two screws holding the floor down are not adequate to fully seat the
floor, so I suspect that I may have to glue on the floor in the same manor
as the AMB floor if I use the kit part.
I could never get teh floors to stick tight tot he plastic deck
anyway, until I started clamping them...I found that 6-8 clothespins
worked GREAT!

Also, I do not know about the
battleship gray deck as even rotten wood has a brown tinge. Anyone got any
suggestions what to use from a prototype perspective ?
I agree that the LL deck color, while an improvement, isn't right....I
paint my decks with depot buff to represent relatively new wood and RR tie
brown for older wood...note that flat car decks were rarely creosoted so
they will age to a different color than RR ties. I often blend the two
paint on a palatte and then paint them on...the blending is incomplete at
best as I want darker streaks and lighter streaks...best done before the
deck is added to the car, and with several, you might try to make the
"newest" car have the newest looking deck <G>.

Second, I have a Sunshine Pennsy FM flat which comes with a rather battered
deck. Anyone got a suggestion for a more sound looking deck? I could use
Evergreen or a cut down AMB floor. I will probably cut the Sunshine floor
down and use it in a gondola.
Aw, I LIKE the sunshine FM deck...of course, mine are in MOW service <G>

Happy Rails
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith


Re: Rivets-AISC book

cornbeltroute <cornbeltroute@...>
 

For estimating the sizes of structural shapes, get a AISC
Handbook. It even has special sizes for railroad use, at least in the
edition I have.<<<

Right, that's the "Steel Manual" I was referring to. I have a 7th
edition, and it seems to not have the z bar shapes in it. I have a
5th ed. somewhere, and I think that had the "carbuilder's channels"
and the z bars in it. -SGL<<

It's the 5th Edition I have. I got it about 1960. AISC = American
Institute of Steel Construction. -Al<


Just ordered the following title from Powell's Books, $10 used plus
shipping. Is this book the one you're all talking about?

Steel Construction 5ed a Manual for Arch (itects?)
Aisc / 1949


Re: Yankee Clipper Kits

Petschallies, Thorsten (ext. Handel) <Thorsten.Petschallies@...>
 

I think you shorten the waiting time by asking.

Thorsten

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Darnaby" <WDarnaby@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Yankee Clipper Kits


At the National Train show in StLouis a year ago I noticed that F&C was
offering kits that I recognized as being previously offered by others such
as Yankee Clipper and West Shore. Of course, as most know, F&C did the
casting for these lines but I was curious about the business relationships
and asked. The story I was told by F&C is that the original contractor,
West Shore, etc., looses their exculsivity rights to the kits if they do
not
order some minimum number of kits from F&C within a certain span of time.
Obviously, that span of time on those kits that I saw had run out and F&C
had gone out on their own. So, my advice is to be patient. Like you I am
waiting for those same C&O and PM cars as I didn't get enough the last
time.

Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "jeffhalloin" <jhalloin@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 6:08 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Yankee Clipper Kits


I am trying to find two or three of the Yankee Clipper kits for the
C&O 8000-9499 series steel boxcars (Modified 1923 ARA-Type). I
understand that F&C may re-release them, but if anyone has any
suggestions on where I could locate the original kits, I would
appreciate the help.

Thanks in advance.

Jeff Halloin



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