Date   

Re: S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:
James D Thompson wrote:

There were some clone rebuilds that had flush sills, Wabash comes to
mind. Also, RF&P's lone s/s rebuild had flush sills. As for the
brackets, some rebuilds used a t-shaped piece rather than a
triangular cast bracket.


David, thanks for the reminder - I have several photos of the
Wabash
rebuilds and should have noticed the flush side sills.
David and Ben,
The Wabash cars with the flush side sills are a result of a second
rebuilding which started two years after the period of this group---
1962. Car bodies from 83, 84, and 85000 series rebuilt cars were
placed on the floor and underframes from 13500-14849 series 41'-6"
gondolas. Trucks from the gons, both AAR standard and Andrews, were
used. The rebuilt cars were numbered 85200-85899 and had both 10'-4"
and 10'-0" IH's. Car interiors were lined with plywood
for class A loading. Side sills appeared to riveted to the
underframe and the car body welded to the side sill. The center sill
which was a foot longer than usual stuck out an equal amount on each
end of the car. Cars were noted for some having a combination of
corrugated and dreadnaught ends, sometimes on the same end. Car
85346 had a 3/7/4, B end, with the top two sections corrugated and
the
bottom dreadnaught. Sorry I snuck past 1960.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


RF&P s/s Rebuild (was: S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar")

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

RF&P did a SS rebuild? You learn something new every day. Anyone
got more info and pictures?
RF&P 2598, rebuilt 9/39 with 5-panel sides and 5-panel welded doors,
what looks from the side like a Viking roof, a power brakewheel, and
inside dimensions of: 40'6" il; 9'2" iw; 10'3" ih; which would have
required some work to raise the ends but I have no details on that.
It was renumbered to 1132 at some point and was still running in 1968.

David Thompson, I put a photo in the Files section...


Re: Rivets-AISC book

Alan C. Welch <acwelch@...>
 

At 01:41 PM 7/11/2002 +0000, you wrote:

Just ordered the following title from Powell's Books, $10 used plus
shipping. Is this book the one you're all talking about?

Steel Construction 5ed a Manual for Arch (itects?)
Aisc / 1949
The full title is: "Steel Construction Manual of the American Institute of Steel Construction". I find it very useful. When all you have to work with is an old General Arrangement drawing it's very difficult to determine what the actual size of structural sections is.

Al


Re: Freight car siding

ABDean <bdean@...>
 

Bruce....

Time to fall back to the old dental tool method for making siding if
you can't find an Evergreen stock item to match. Rather than take
up everyone's reading time with this here on the board, if you'll
email me , I'll walk you through the steps.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaay back when I first started building styrene models in
the late 60's we didn't have Evergreen, just plain old sheet
styrene...so, necessity being the mother of something....

give me a shout.

Buck Dean
Lexington, KY


Re: S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

James D Thompson wrote:

There were some clone rebuilds that had flush sills, Wabash comes to
mind. Also, RF&P's lone s/s rebuild had flush sills. As for the
brackets, some rebuilds used a t-shaped piece rather than a
triangular cast bracket.


David, thanks for the reminder - I have several photos of the Wabash
rebuilds and should have noticed the flush side sills.

RF&P did a SS rebuild? You learn something new every day. Anyone
got more info and pictures?

The comparison to PRR Class X29B implied the T-shaped brackets - I
should have made that more explicit. Still, I haven't seen any
examples of this on a SS or DS rebuild.

All of this aside, the model still fails to capture the "wider body
dropped onto a older more narrow underframe" look; it's just visibly
too narrow.


Ben Hom


Re: UP freight cars?

peter_markum <peter.markum@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@a...> wrote:

Any news on these?
Trix, the 2-rail DC subsidiary of Märklin, has recently announced
the following:
20pack of UP B-50-24/27 with Kadee-compatible couplers and RP25
wheelsets for EUR 538 (T24900) as well as the CA-4 caboose in
pre-1947 brown (T24901, EUR 36), no delivery date given.

Regards,
Peter Markum
Vienna, Austria.


Re: Rivets-AISC book

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

Right! 4th, 5th edition, USED, for cheap, is what you want.

If you have one of these, and realize what you're looking at in a photo, you
can approximate scale a lot better . . .

SGL

----- Original Message -----
From: "ABDean" <bdean@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 10:57 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Rivets-AISC book


I may be too late to jump into this discussion , but before everyone
runs out to the nearest college bookstore to buy the most current
AISC Manual , please note that many steel connections, details, and
sections have been removed from current steel fabrication practices
(in favor of hi-tens welding and bolted connections and higher
strength steel materials), plus as another reader pointed out, the
common "car building" sections have been replaced as well.

Best bet would be to dig around used book sites for AISC manuals from
the 40's and earlier, when those methods were still "en vogue" -
however, I'm not sure what all this information is going to do to for
a model builder other than give him a migrain.

The book this gentlemen found is probably the Architect's reference
guide book that shows the basic dimensional properties of steel
sections, plate, etc. This would be worth having - if only for the
building component.

Buck Dean, P.E.
Lexington,KY



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Re: Rivets-AISC book

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 



Just ordered the following title from Powell's Books, $10 used plus
shipping. Is this book the one you're all talking about?

Steel Construction 5ed a Manual for Arch (itects?)
Aisc / 1949
Not precisely, but a good start. It's a simplified version for architects
(I am one, so I can say that!)

SGL


Re: S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

First, the side sills are incorrect for any SS or DS rebuild - there is
no noticeable inset, and the brackets are actually closer to those used
on Pennsy Class X29 rebuilds than anything used on an SS or DS rebuild.
There were some clone rebuilds that had flush sills, Wabash comes to
mind. Also, RF&P's lone s/s rebuild had flush sills. As for the brackets,
some rebuilds used a t-shaped piece rather than a triangular cast bracket.

David Thompson


S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Hello all,

Normally I try to avoid posting info outside of my scale, but I just posted
a reply on the Pennsy list concerning these cars and I thought I'd share of
my thoughts here with the list, especially Jeff English, Earl Tuson, and the
local S scale community.

S Helper Service recently released a "40 ft Rebuilt Boxcar" in S Scale
(http://www.showcaseline.com/index.html). Unfortunately, the model has a
number of serious shortcomings.

For those who came in late here at STMFC, some quick notes on the
prototype: Even though Youngstown marketed kits to the railroads during
the 1930s to rebuild single- and double-sheathed boxcars, each individual
railroad approached rebuilding cars in a different manner, with some roads
simply replacing the sides while retaining the original roof and ends;
others replacing the sides and roof while retaining the ends, and one (KCS)
doing a USRA DS rebuild in 1949 by fitting a modern boxcar body, ends and
all on top of the old underframe. Almost all rebuilds increased the height
of the car, and railroads took different approaches to making the ends
taller, with some adding a blank panel and others splicing in sections of
Murphy ends. The cars were also widened - a reliable spotting feature of a
rebuilt SS or DS boxcar is an indented side sill with trapezoidal or
triangular brackets supporting the new steel sides. The wider cars required
end modifications as well - most railroads simply used an angle to join the
ends to the side creating an indent there, but some roads used sheet metal
to widen the ends creating a more familiar square corner. The original
trucks were almost always reused; the underframe was always reused. The net
result is that rebuilt boxcars were unique to each railroad. For a more
detailed account of USRA DS rebuilds, see "Steel Side USRA Rebuilds," Parts
1 and 2 by Martin Lofton in the September and October 1989 Railroad Model
Craftsman.

The Model: The S Helper Service model has some serious problems with the
sides. The model has eight-panel steel sides, which is correct for many of
the rebuilds except those who used ten-panel sides (ATSF, PRR). However,
the sides have two problems. First, the side sills are incorrect for any SS
or DS rebuild - there is no noticeable inset, and the brackets are actually
closer to those used on Pennsy Class X29 rebuilds than anything used on an
SS or DS rebuild. Without this inset, the car is too narrow and fails to
capture the look of a wider new carbody fitted to a narrow older underframe.
In fact, it's pretty obvious that the tooling for this car was modified from
SHS's USRA SS
boxcar.

Here's a rundown of the model's details:
Roof: Original USRA steel sheathed roof.
Ends: Unmodified 5/5/5 Murphy ends.
Sides: Eight-panel sides. No distinct inset side sill. T-section support
brackets.
Underframe: USRA SS car (?)

This model is probably closest to the ACL and SL-SF USRA DS rebuilds;
however, the side sills are wrong and the model lacks the heavy fishbelly
underframe of the DS rebuilds.

This model is better left to the American Flyer crowd. Serious S scalers
deserve better.


Ben Hom


Freight car siding

Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Now, I really know better than to open this can of worms, but having to
face a project on my desk, I just have to ask...

I'm working on building a PRR wire train rider/tool car, and wanted to use
a Westerfield PRR MOW XL commisary car as a starting point. From a photo
Al Buchan sent me, I can tell that the siding on these cars is V grooved,
with what appears to be a 3" board width, but is in reality a 6" board
width with a center V-grove as well as a V-groove edge (as was applied to
most PRR wood cabins). I wanted to match the siding used for the masters
for the Westerfield XL, but I can't seem to do it. Evergreen V-groove
(.03", .04") has either too wide or too narrow a spacing and Evergreen car
siding (3.5" boards IIRC) is just off a little bit in the spacing (actually
too narrow, indicating that the Westerfield model has boards that are a
little too wide <G>).

Any suggestions on matching the siding on these?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: UP freight cars?

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Ted Culotta wrote:

That's cause they're the real thing... original photos
and photoshop. They look just "modely" enough to
confuse people.

And I thought they even read Mike Brock's backdrop painting article
too, what with the Rockies in the background! ;-)


Ben Hom
I hear they have a killer Rutland green and yellow paint scheme for
these cars too...

(Seriously though, Marklin did contact John Nehrich for info on doing
that scheme on these cars, who, of course, told them that would be
somewhat less than correct. Needless to say, that raised more than a
few concerns about how Marklin will market these models.)


Re: UP freight cars?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor asks:
Any news on these?

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/new%20products/marklin/upmodelsmain
.html
My very first stop during the National Train Show at Lauderdale will be at
the Marklin booth. Does this mean I'll know anything that isn't known now?
The answer to that is best done by using the same reply that a member of the
ex SP 4449 crew gave me when I asked if I called the SP dispatcher back in
'91 [at the Railfare] would he give me the scheduled time of 4449's
departure from Sacramento......."Probably not"....and my answer would be
given in the same tone as his. Still...

Mike Brock....What? Me need an H-70-1?


Re: UP freight cars?

Ted Culotta <ted_culotta@...>
 

--- Don Winter <guaruba@...> wrote:
Wow! Those cars are VERY realistic! Don Winter
That's cause they're the real thing... original photos
and photoshop. They look just "modely" enough to
confuse people.

Ted


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Re: Flat car/Navy Generator car

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Bruce,

That's weird. I've never seen anything like it. Your guess is probably close to correct, maybe mounting
points for snubbers of some sort. I would not be surprised if the car originally had some other type of
truck, since there doesn't seem to be a corresponding mounting point on the arch bars in the picture.

Also notice that the truss rods are bolted or riveted to the side sill, rather than running over the
bolsters and ended at nuts in the end sills. And isn't that exhaust stack great?

The military owned a lot of really strange cars, many built or rebuilt for special purposes, or for
foreign use. Since a great many were never intended for interchange, they could get away with some really
bizarre stuff.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

"Bruce F. Smith" wrote:


Afternoon y'all,

I am reposting this to this group with the author's permission. I have put
the photo on my site at
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/NavGenCar.jpg

Does anyone know what this car was before a shop built a shed on the deck to
house a diesel generator? What might give you a clue is the
"half-of-a-hinge" on the side sill just a ways back from the side step.
There is a small chain hanging from one end of the hinge that has a small
pin attached. It looks like it might have been used to secure a larger pin
that would go into the holes of both parts of a hinge. There is a device
like this on all four corners of the car.
The car appears to me to be a truss rod flat car and the device in question
is centered over the bolster. Was it some sort of external bearing for the
truck? Any help would be most welcome!


Re: UP freight cars?

Don Winter <guaruba@...>
 

Wow! Those cars are VERY realistic! Don Winter


Flat car/Navy Generator car

Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Afternoon y'all,

I am reposting this to this group with the author's permission. I have put
the photo on my site at
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/NavGenCar.jpg

Does anyone know what this car was before a shop built a shed on the deck to
house a diesel generator? What might give you a clue is the
"half-of-a-hinge" on the side sill just a ways back from the side step.
There is a small chain hanging from one end of the hinge that has a small
pin attached. It looks like it might have been used to secure a larger pin
that would go into the holes of both parts of a hinge. There is a device
like this on all four corners of the car.
The car appears to me to be a truss rod flat car and the device in question
is centered over the bolster. Was it some sort of external bearing for the
truck? Any help would be most welcome!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: UP freight cars?

Ted Culotta <ted_culotta@...>
 

--- Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...> wrote:

Any news on these?

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/new%20products/marklin/upmodelsmain.html

They're not due until this Fall.

Ted

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UP freight cars?

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Any news on these?

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/new%20products/marklin/upmodelsmain.html

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: FGE reefer paint

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/models/welch/welchmain.html


Does Bill Welch have his JPEG's somewhere on the WWW? I don't see anything
in the photos or files sections of STMFC.

Jack Wyatt

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts

186801 - 186820 of 196818