Date   

Re: Why not model actual train consists? (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Armand;

You may be past this point, but given my lack of actual consists, I had to
use photos, limited special reports done on car numbers by location, and
industry data, to develop my fleet. I made sure to include enough cars for
each industry of service, to not have the same cars show up again and again,
unless they were specifically dedicated to that location. Thus, for a
service like coal, I have a lot of hoppers I can create blocks from, and get
a different group every time, as I do for the many tank cars I need at the
coke by-products plants. For Corning Glass, up river, however, they have a
small dedicated fleet of covered hoppers, for their glass sand, and you tend
to see members of that small group repeatedly, as you would in real life.

For my run-throughs, which appear at the back of my layout, and which do not
visit the front or even stop, I have a fleet of kits with molded on detail
(HORRORS), which while I would love to super-detail, I may not live long
enough. Most of these are big strings of loaded hoppers going one way, and
MTYs the other. I change out the motive power and cabins on either end, and
voila, a "new" train.

For my actual set-outs and stuff that gets switched in my face, I have my
super-detailed cars, only about 60 so far, which I enjoy seeing close-up in a
fully detailed scene. The others are just going in and out of staging, so I
don't have much time to focus on them, anyway.

The last group are the "special" cars Tony mentioned, that I rotate out on a
very infrequent basis, because one would only occasionally see them in real
life. They are the depressed center cars with a big transformer or other;
long structural loads, etc. They are kept in a drawer and pulled according
to my "random chance" generator (2 x 10-sided dice and a table of chance
occurrences). This method nicely addresses the randomness of need for a
rebuilt transformer at the power plant, and other chance events.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 1:14 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Why not model actual train consists?



Not to belabor this issue,but I just checked a whole month of wheel reports
to see what the correlation was with the Twenty Largest railroads.The results
were not really earth shattering.However,while some roads were well
represented some were not in the top twenty for that moth.Other roads not in
the top twenty had many more cars during that month than those on the list..
-If one has a sufficient amount-of data as well as a large-enough roster
modeling actual train consist should no be boring.-- I try to remove most of
the cars used in an op session and replace them with other cars for the next
op session.In betwee I make up the train that will run on the during the next
session.Not seeing the same cars over and over will help to make the process
less boring.Your comments will be appreciated.Armand PremoOriginal Message
-----
From: Jim Betz
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:02 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Why not model actual train consists?

Hi,

The flurry of responses has started to wind down. They are
all well thought out and great. Thanks.

So here's an update to my suggestion:

The major 'flaw' in my suggestion is that if you model
specific consists you will end up with ops that are 'boring'
(over time) ... unless you have a fleet that is much larger
than the normal layout. I agree with this.

So what if your -fleet- is modeled based on actual train
consists ... but you don't use those consists for your ops -
or if you do use them duirng ops you only do so on a few
trains or only on "special occasions"?
- Jim

----------------------------------------------------------

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.891 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3235 - Release Date: 11/03/10
04:36:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Corroded hoppers

Richard Townsend
 

Is it a long report? BTW, that 1943 Alcoa ad makes the same point you did regarding thickness: "Aluminum is naturally resistant to corrosion. Its use permits conservative designs, because lightness can be achieved by building with thick sections which give stiffness and sturdiness."


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 25, 2011 11:49 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Corroded hoppers




Richard Townsend wrote:
Do you know of any discussion with respect to PRR 740279? This was
a GLc hopper built or rebuilt with aluminum, in 1932, I think. I
don't know if there were others in the same or other PRR series that
were aluminum, but I have a 1943 Railway Age ad from Alcoa featuring
that car.
Alcoa sponsored several hopper car projects in aluminum in the
1930s. The material was terribly expensive and it's no surprise that
nobody built any additional cars (without the Alcoa subsidy) in those
days. But AFAIK the cars performed all right. I have an Alcoa report
on this which indicates good resistance to corrosion.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Corroded hoppers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Townsend wrote:
Do you know of any discussion with respect to PRR 740279? This was a GLc hopper built or rebuilt with aluminum, in 1932, I think. I don't know if there were others in the same or other PRR series that were aluminum, but I have a 1943 Railway Age ad from Alcoa featuring that car.
Alcoa sponsored several hopper car projects in aluminum in the 1930s. The material was terribly expensive and it's no surprise that nobody built any additional cars (without the Alcoa subsidy) in those days. But AFAIK the cars performed all right. I have an Alcoa report on this which indicates good resistance to corrosion.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Corroded hoppers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gatwood, Elden wrote:
That is about what I expected, since the bulk of PRR correspondence on the topic of failures, at least post-war for sure, is about things they believed were engineering issues, not about materials.
There is a much later discussion about . . . Cor-Ten . . . USS was claiming the same tensile strength, for a thinner sheet, which could have saved the PRR a lot, in light weight of each car, and hence, allow greater load weight per car . . .
As railroads also found with stronger and thinner steel in box cars, this is a structural trap. The weight savings really aren't very big, a few thousand pounds, and the thinner steel is LESS stiff. The elastic modulus of steel, which controls stiffness, doesn't vary with strength of the steel, so thinner material automatically means a loss of stiffness. That in turn makes the structure of the car more flexible, and accentuates any trend to cracking or tearing at critical locations.
If you keep the steel sections the same size, stiffness remains constant but of course there's no weight saving any more. The only way to get greater stiffness with thinner sections is innovations like corrugated or Dreadnaught ends instead of flat plate ends, ditto for doors.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Corroded hoppers (UNCLASSIFIED)

Richard Townsend
 

Eldon (or anyone else, really),

Do you know of any discussion with respect to PRR 740279? This was a GLc hopper built or rebuilt with aluminum, in 1932, I think. I don't know if there were others in the same or other PRR series that were aluminum, but I have a 1943 Railway Age ad from Alcoa featuring that car.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden SAW <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 25, 2011 11:34 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Corroded hoppers (UNCLASSIFIED)




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Tony;

That is about what I expected, since the bulk of PRR correspondence on the
topic of failures, at least post-war for sure, is about things they believed
were engineering issues, not about materials. Despite what some believe, the
PRR did not believe itself infallible, and was always looking for ways to
improve car design...ALL cars. Hence the major X29, X31A, lightweight box
car, gondola, and hopper rebuilding campaigns, and the many improvements they
made to new design as a result.

There is a much later discussion about materials that focused on the use of
"new" steel, one being Cor-Ten, but I believe that was because the PRR was
looking at a large fleet of old hoppers that had earlier and hence, fairly
thick, steel sheet, in both sides and slope sheets, to prevent early (and
often) replacement of same due to structural failure (generally bulging, then
tearing or separation of sheets at seams). USS was claiming the same tensile
strength, for a thinner sheet, which could have saved the PRR a lot, in light
weight of each car, and hence, allow greater load weight per car (they were
slightly unloading cars, as a corporate goal, to reduce structural failures
in their old, old fleet of hoppers, especially when loading ores and stone).

But most of the rebuilding campaigns did focus on areas of weakness in the
design, not materials, and discussion on corrosion is notably absent.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 1:47 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Corroded hoppers

Gatwood, Elden wrote:
It would be interesting to know how geographic/regional this issue
was, and how it evolved over time. I recall seeing discussion on
effects of corrosion early in the twentieth century . . .
Looking through railroad industry journals such as Railway Age in the first
ten or 15 years of the 20th century will show numerous articles and letters
to the editor about corrosion prevention on steel car bodies, which of course
were then just coming into common usage.
Paint formulas, surface preparation methods, drying times, and other aspects
of the problem were repeatedly discussed. After roughly World War I, this
topic disappears from the literature, and I assume a consensus had emerged on
how best to paint steel cars. This consensus was NOT on account of
copper-bearing steel being introduced to combat corrosion, because that
happened about a decade later.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>;
Publishers of books on railroad history

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Corroded hoppers (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Tony;

That is about what I expected, since the bulk of PRR correspondence on the
topic of failures, at least post-war for sure, is about things they believed
were engineering issues, not about materials. Despite what some believe, the
PRR did not believe itself infallible, and was always looking for ways to
improve car design...ALL cars. Hence the major X29, X31A, lightweight box
car, gondola, and hopper rebuilding campaigns, and the many improvements they
made to new design as a result.

There is a much later discussion about materials that focused on the use of
"new" steel, one being Cor-Ten, but I believe that was because the PRR was
looking at a large fleet of old hoppers that had earlier and hence, fairly
thick, steel sheet, in both sides and slope sheets, to prevent early (and
often) replacement of same due to structural failure (generally bulging, then
tearing or separation of sheets at seams). USS was claiming the same tensile
strength, for a thinner sheet, which could have saved the PRR a lot, in light
weight of each car, and hence, allow greater load weight per car (they were
slightly unloading cars, as a corporate goal, to reduce structural failures
in their old, old fleet of hoppers, especially when loading ores and stone).

But most of the rebuilding campaigns did focus on areas of weakness in the
design, not materials, and discussion on corrosion is notably absent.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 1:47 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Corroded hoppers



Gatwood, Elden wrote:
It would be interesting to know how geographic/regional this issue
was, and how it evolved over time. I recall seeing discussion on
effects of corrosion early in the twentieth century . . .
Looking through railroad industry journals such as Railway Age in the first
ten or 15 years of the 20th century will show numerous articles and letters
to the editor about corrosion prevention on steel car bodies, which of course
were then just coming into common usage.
Paint formulas, surface preparation methods, drying times, and other aspects
of the problem were repeatedly discussed. After roughly World War I, this
topic disappears from the literature, and I assume a consensus had emerged on
how best to paint steel cars. This consensus was NOT on account of
copper-bearing steel being introduced to combat corrosion, because that
happened about a decade later.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


President's announcement NYCSHS-Members group&#8207;

James Yaworsky
 

As the new president of the New York Central System Historical Society, I am delighted to announce that the Society has established a Yahoo group for the free exchange of NYC-related information between and among Society members. This effort will respond to the very real concern that Society members could not communicate among themselves. If you are a NYCSHS member and want to talk with
other NYCSHS members, get aboard now!

NYCSHS members who have Yahoo accounts should log on to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCSHS-Members/
and request to enter the group. Have your NYCSHS membership number ready and insert it into your request.

NYCSHS members who do not have Yahoo accounts should log on to
http://groups.yahoo.com/
and then insert "NYCSHS-Members" in the "find a Yahoo group" search box. This will bring up a screen that has the group shown, with a "join this group" clickable hot-link.

Not a NYCSHS member and want to get aboard? Please visit the Society's website at www.nycshs.org to obtain a membership application.

My thanks go to member Jason Cook for setting up this new discussion group, and to Jim Yaworsky and Noel Widdifield, who will join Jason as group moderators.

Richard L. Stoving


Re: Corroded hoppers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gatwood, Elden wrote:
It would be interesting to know how geographic/regional this issue was, and how it evolved over time. I recall seeing discussion on effects of corrosion early in the twentieth century . . .
Looking through railroad industry journals such as Railway Age in the first ten or 15 years of the 20th century will show numerous articles and letters to the editor about corrosion prevention on steel car bodies, which of course were then just coming into common usage. Paint formulas, surface preparation methods, drying times, and other aspects of the problem were repeatedly discussed. After roughly World War I, this topic disappears from the literature, and I assume a consensus had emerged on how best to paint steel cars. This consensus was NOT on account of copper-bearing steel being introduced to combat corrosion, because that happened about a decade later.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Why not model actual train consists?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Armand Premo wrote:
I try to remove most of the cars used in an op session and replace them with other cars for the next op session. In betwee I make up the train that will run on the during the next session. Not seeing the same cars over and over will help to make the process less boring. Your comments will be appreciated.
I agree with this idea, and have done something similar. I am meticulous in replacing in any train a "distinctive" car, such as a depressed-center car with load (or any distinctive open-car load), or something vividly painted, such as a Chateau Martin wine car or a brightly painted tank car, or, say, a helium car (yes, they are indeed appropriate for my layout place and time).
I am less energetic in replacing plainer cars, and the plainer they are the less likely to be replaced in a particular re-set, but I have been trying out a system of "wheel reports," in which I use a switchlist form to record train consists and operating dates. Once a small stack of these has been accumulated, I no longer have to rely on memory to realize that the Illinois Central box car, say, has been in that train for some time.
Most of my car changes occur with the local which picks up and delivers cars to my branch line junction, since it is driven by waybill sequences. The wheel reports are a way to avoid waybill sequencing for mainline trains but still keep train appearances varied, as Armand correctly says.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Why not model actual train consists?

Armand Premo
 

Not to belabor this issue,but I just checked a whole month of wheel reports to see what the correlation was with the Twenty Largest railroads.The results were not really earth shattering.However,while some roads were well represented some were not in the top twenty for that moth.Other roads not in the top twenty had many more cars during that month than those on the list..
-If one has a sufficient amount-of data as well as a large-enough roster modeling actual train consist should no be boring.-- I try to remove most of the cars used in an op session and replace them with other cars for the next op session.In betwee I make up the train that will run on the during the next session.Not seeing the same cars over and over will help to make the process less boring.Your comments will be appreciated.Armand PremoOriginal Message -----
From: Jim Betz
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:02 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Why not model actual train consists?



Hi,

The flurry of responses has started to wind down. They are
all well thought out and great. Thanks.

So here's an update to my suggestion:

The major 'flaw' in my suggestion is that if you model
specific consists you will end up with ops that are 'boring'
(over time) ... unless you have a fleet that is much larger
than the normal layout. I agree with this.

So what if your -fleet- is modeled based on actual train
consists ... but you don't use those consists for your ops -
or if you do use them duirng ops you only do so on a few
trains or only on "special occasions"?
- Jim






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.891 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3235 - Release Date: 11/03/10 04:36:00


Re: Corroded hoppers (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

It would be interesting to know how geographic/regional this issue was, and
how it evolved over time. I recall seeing discussion on effects of corrosion
early in the twentieth century, but the issue for my time period (late 20th
C) seems to have been overshadowed by the effects of overloading or over-use
rather than corrosion-induced failure. Perhaps this was from the use of
better steel, or just that corrosion was not that much of an issue relating
to the coal found in my area of the country.

That being said, I remember seeing corrosion on the slope sheets and lower
insides, of many hoppers I personally climbed into, but it never appeared to
have been the cause of failure of either, and sorry, I did not take photos of
it, either.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
rwitt_2000
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 4:30 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Corroded hoppers



Richard Townsend wrote:

I am looking for photos of steam era hoppers with corroded slope
sheets and bottom sheets as a result of hauling (high-sulfur) coal or sulfur.
Anybody know of any?
Richard,

I know of two seminal articles about steel freight used by the B&ORR that
have illustrations of corrosion to early open-top cars; hoppers and gondolas
used in coal service. The first article discusses B&O gondolas class O-12,
O-14, and O-17, and hoppers class N-8, N-9, N-10 and N-10A.
It describes and illustrates the types of failures and the "repairs"
made to to "fix" the problems. The second articles mostly describes the
failures to the B&O class W-1 (similar to the PRR H21) and how these coke
hoppers were repaired and rebuilt in 1923. It especially notes that copper
bearing steel showed less corrosion. Both articles describe corrosion damage
to steel cars that were in service for 7 to 10 years.

1. Maintenance and Repair of Steel Freight Cars, Baltimore & Ohio Railroad,
American Engineer and Railroad Journal (became Railway Locomotive & Cars),
vol. 81, p. 161, May 1907, (18 page article).

2.Reducing the Corrosion in Steel Cars, Steel containing a small percentage
of copper adopted to prevent rapid deterioration, J.J. Tatum, Superintendent
Car Department, Baltimore & Ohio, Railway Mechanical Engineer, vol. 97, no.
7, July 1923, pp.413-416.

If you have access to a large university engineering library you should be
able to locate these two articles. I haven't checked recently, but PDFs of
some railroad journals are in Google Books.

I would offer to copy these articles for you, but my copies are from 45 years
ago when copy machines could not copy half-tone photographs in journals so a
second generation copy would be unreadable.

I hope this helps. This has been discussed in the past on this list so
possibly others have better copies of these articles.

Regards,

Bob Witt





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Why not model actual train consists?

al_brown03
 

This amounts to assuming that the cars in your consists are representative of those in your modelled territory. Given a large enough data sample, that assumption may be good, although some pitfalls have been pointed out in this thread. (Two examples: [1] "Your" conductor may have worked only certain trains; [2] photographs obviously over-represent daytime trains, and may also over-represent trains doing something photogenic, e.g. climbing a grade.) Proceed, but with caution, I'd say.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Hi,

The flurry of responses has started to wind down. They are
all well thought out and great. Thanks.

So here's an update to my suggestion:

The major 'flaw' in my suggestion is that if you model
specific consists you will end up with ops that are 'boring'
(over time) ... unless you have a fleet that is much larger
than the normal layout. I agree with this.

So what if your -fleet- is modeled based on actual train
consists ... but you don't use those consists for your ops -
or if you do use them duirng ops you only do so on a few
trains or only on "special occasions"?
- Jim


Re: Why not model actual train consists?

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

The flurry of responses has started to wind down. They are
all well thought out and great. Thanks.

So here's an update to my suggestion:

The major 'flaw' in my suggestion is that if you model
specific consists you will end up with ops that are 'boring'
(over time) ... unless you have a fleet that is much larger
than the normal layout. I agree with this.

So what if your -fleet- is modeled based on actual train
consists ... but you don't use those consists for your ops -
or if you do use them duirng ops you only do so on a few
trains or only on "special occasions"?
- Jim


Re: Reading Box Car

rwitt_2000
 

Al Brown wrote:

Wow, what a beauty! Check out the fishbelly underframe, unusual arch
bar trucks, and Youngstown replacement door.
Looking at the photograph and the drawings again, it appears that this
Reading boxcar also has a replacement roof. It looks like a Hutchins.
For a kit-bash one could cut one from the Accurail reefer if the width
of the cars bodies are similar.

Bob Witt


Re: Marion, OH RPM

golden1014
 

Hi Joe,

Thanks about the correction regarding the tower at Marion. I know practically nothing about the Erie Railroad--it is one of those very interesting roads I have always wanted to study, and now I have good reason to.

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Lofland <jjlofland@...> wrote:

John, et al,

Yes Marion is a great place to meet and watch trains. Absolutely great

Marion tower was moved from across the tracks and restored, however I think
you'll find that it's an Erie tower (AC) and the restored interlocking
equipment inside is Erie, not NYC. The Erie station is also a great example
of a groups effort's at restoration.

Joe Lofland

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 12:03 AM, John Golden <golden1014@...> wrote:



Gentlemen,

I went to the Marion, OH RPM meet this weekend and had a great time. I
haven't
been to all the RPM meets, of course, but Denis Blake has gotta have the
best
location by far. He hosts the meet in the old Marion Union Station, which
is
now a musem. There's a ton of historical stuff and signal equipment
located on
the site, including a nice operating layout.

The station is surounded by three double-track mainlines and although I'm
not
much of a modern railfan I thoroughly enjoyed the parade of trains going by
the
depot. I was only able to attend the meet on Friday but I'm sure I saw
25-30
trains of all types.

There's plenty of stuff for the steam era fan to research there too--the
Marion
Shovel Works, the Erie yard, all the industry that once kept Marion going.
One
of the best things about the museum is the simulator for the old NYC tower
that
governed the junction--it works, and you can go into the tower and "play"
signalman, working the levers on an actual timed scenario with a totally
working
model board. It is one of the coolest things I've ever seen. If you're a
steam
era guy this is something you've gotta come and check out--it is worth the
trip.

We had a nice time and Denis was a great host. I saw about 400 models of
all
types and I understand more came on Saturday. We had inpromtu slide shows
and
the clinics were all excellent and held in an adjacent part of
the building.
The local restaurant--The Shovel (the name comes from the old Marion Shovel

Works which was next door)--had great lunch and dinner specials and was 20
feet
from the depot. I spent a lot of time talking with Warren Calloway, Stan
Rydarowicz, and others--it was a nice time and I highly recommend it for
those
that want a break from the ordinary RPM meet. That is, of course, after
you
come to St. Louis in a few months...

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL

2011 St. Louis RPM Meet Info:
http://icg.home.mindspring.com/rpm/stlrpm2011.htm

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Reading Box Car

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Drew <phillydrewcifer@...> wrote:

The covered hopper conversion was used to haul cocoa beans to the Hershey plant in Hershey, PA. Check out Wiseman Model Services (I think) for something close to the trucks.
Drew
Al Westerfield did patterns for these years ago. They went to Walker model Service, and thence to On-Trak Models when they bought Walker's line, and recently to Wiseman Model Services when Paul Redmond sold the On-Trak line to Wiseman. The Wiseman site was slow earlier today, but I see it's running now:

http://www.locopainter.com/store/product.php?id=424

Dennis


Re: Reading Box Car

Ed Walters
 

I couldn't find it via Google, but it's available at: http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924032183216

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

al brown wrote:
Wow, what a beauty! Check out the fishbelly
underframe, unusual 
arch bar trucks, and Youngstown replacement door.
36' box, RDG class XMp, built 1912-1913.

If you want to scratchbuild one, there's a set of plans in the 1916 CBD. Figures 283 & 284, pages 289 & 290. The CBD is available as a free download on Google Books.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Reading Box Car

Ray Breyer
 

al brown wrote:
Wow, what a beauty! Check out the fishbelly
underframe, unusual 
arch bar trucks, and Youngstown replacement door.
36' box, RDG class XMp, built 1912-1913.

If you want to scratchbuild one, there's a set of plans in the 1916 CBD. Figures 283 & 284, pages 289 & 290. The CBD is available as a free download on Google Books.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Reading Box Car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 24, 2011, at 7:00 AM, al_brown03 wrote:

Wow, what a beauty! Check out the fishbelly underframe, unusual
arch bar trucks, and Youngstown replacement door.

36' box, RDG class XMp, built 1912-1913.
Those trucks were pressed steel arch bar trucks, made by the Pressed
Steel Car Co. See the 1906 Car Builders' Dictionary, p. 401. I
believe Al Westerfield once supplied HO scale versions of these
trucks, though I don't know where you would find them now.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Why not model actual train consists?

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Close, Bill, it was Matt Zebrowski. Matt has the only conductors' books listing Santa Fe train consists I've ever seen, which is one reason more people don't do what he did. - Andy Sperandeo

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