Date   

How Many chalk Marks????

Peter Reinhold <paintplustrains@...>
 

Greetings list Members,

The weekend is here and I'm putting some of Sunshines' chalk markings on
some cars. I've noted that on the Shineshine flyers that there are often
more than a half dozen chalk marks on the side of a car. Is this for real?
I've dug through my limited collection of photos and can find at most 3
chalk mark on the side of a car.

Now I'm not saying that anybody is wrong here. I'm just looking to do
the job right the first time. Is there some average range of chalk marks I
should shoot for. Thanks in advance. Just like to say that the Shineshine
decals are very nice to work with.

Pete Reinhold
Paint Plus Trains
375 fourth Street
Prairie Du Sac, WI. 53578
608-643-4325
paintplustrains@...


Re: Freight car siding

endeimling@...
 

I have scribed my own siding material back in the olda
days (pre-Evergreen). I used a "Kohliner" mechanical
line spacer to properly space the lines. I believe the
false T-G siding is 5.25" wide with a false groove in
the center. This would make the apparent boardwidth
narrower than the normal 3.25" board width found on most
cars.

Gene

Buck sez again:

You are welcome; however, apparently you have found the line between
to the two points to be straighter than imagined previously. It
usually takes me a couple of cups of coffee.

I will point out that what Charlie M. sez about the styrene scriber
from Micro Mark should make all take note...these are VERY handy and
there's always that need for some sort of something like this once in
awhile.

Buck Dean
Lexington, KY



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Re: Freight car siding

ABDean <bdean@...>
 

Buck sez again:

You are welcome; however, apparently you have found the line between
to the two points to be straighter than imagined previously. It
usually takes me a couple of cups of coffee.

I will point out that what Charlie M. sez about the styrene scriber
from Micro Mark should make all take note...these are VERY handy and
there's always that need for some sort of something like this once in
awhile.

Buck Dean
Lexington, KY


Questions on SAL B-7/AF-1 boxcars

salfan2001 <ThisIsR@...>
 

Hello:
I have a few questions relating to SEABOARD's B-7 and AF-1
boxcars.
1)Did they have drop end style grabirons? The photos I have don't
really show the grabs too well.
2)What kind of handbrakes did they have?
3)What kind of trucks?
4)I'm assuming by the late WW2 years or late 1940s these cars would
have had steel running boards. Correct?
Thank you for your assistance.

Richard Stallworth


Re: Freight car siding

Greg Martin
 

Bruce Smith (smithbf@...) writes:

Yes Bruce there is a wood God and we still have trees here in Oregon, lots of them...

Now, I really know better than to open this can of worms, but having to
face a project on my desk, I just have to ask...

I'm working on building a PRR wire train rider/tool car, and wanted to use
a Westerfield PRR MOW XL commisary car as a starting point. From a photo
Al Buchan sent me, I can tell that the siding on these cars is V grooved,
with what appears to be a 3" board width, but is in reality a 6" board
width with a center V-grove as well as a V-groove edge (as was applied to
most PRR wood cabins).<
Your observations are correct the "patterned stock" for "car siding" is 1"x6" V&CV T&G S2S REV which translates into VEE and Center Vee, Tounge and groove, Surfaced two Sides, Reversible center matched. Ths gives the impression of 2 piece of 1"x3". The patterned stock was "normally" run up on stock that was Ayes & Btr Clear Verticle Grain material. This helped reduce cupping, but the grade allows for some slash grain which once painted doesn't hold paint quiet as well. Thus you will see certain boards loose paint long before others.

I wanted to match the siding used for the masters for the Westerfield XL, but I can't seem to do it. Evergreen V-groove(.03", .04") has either too wide or too narrow a spacing and Evergreen car siding (3.5" boards IIRC) is just off a little bit in the spacing (actually too narrow, indicating that the Westerfield model has boards that are a little too wide <G>).

Any suggestions on matching the siding on these?

Happy Rails
Bruce
Good Luck trying to match the siding to Al's it might be tough to do. BUt I would think that the narrower would be closer to correct.

Greg Martin


Re: Wabash DS Boxcar Rebuilds (was S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar")

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Chet French wrote:

"The Wabash cars with the flush side sills are a result of a second
rebuilding which started two years after the period of this group---
1962. Car bodies from 83, 84, and 85000 series rebuilt cars were
placed on the floor and underframes from 13500-14849 series 41'-6"
gondolas. Trucks from the gons, both AAR standard and Andrews, were
used. The rebuilt cars were numbered 85200-85899 and had both 10'-4"
and 10'-0" IH's." <<snip>>

Great information, Chet! I never would have guessed that the
original underframe was swapped out with those from gons - that
tricky Wabash Mechanical Department!


"Side sills appeared to riveted to the underframe and the car body
welded to the side sill."

Explains the lack of an inset along the side sill.


"Cars were noted for some having a combination of corrugated and
dreadnaught ends, sometimes on the same end. Car 85346 had a 3/7/4,
B end, with the top two sections corrugated and the bottom
dreadnaught."

I was wondering about that car ever since I saw the photo in Classic
Freight Cars Volume 1. Of course, I wasn't about to trust the
caption in the book - that would be kind of like buying Worldcom
stock right now.


"Sorry I snuck past 1960."

In this case, not at all a problem. I'm coming to the conclusion
that the rebuilt boxcar book in the "Freight Cars in Service" series
is going to be the hardest one to write because of all of the
variations. It might also prove to be the most interesting one to do
because of that reason!

Thanks again!


Ben Hom


Re: Freight car siding

Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Buck sez:
Time to fall back to the old dental tool method for making siding if
you can't find an Evergreen stock item to match. Rather than take
up everyone's reading time with this here on the board, if you'll
email me , I'll walk you through the steps.
Thanks for the offer - In looking at this project more last night I
realized that I can use the Evergreen freight car siding...it may even
simplify the "bash".

My problem with this MOW car is that the window arrangement is different
from any of the the MOW XLs that Westerfield sells. So my original plan
was to cut the sides of one of Westerfield's kits up, rearrange whole
pieces of side and add siding as needed to fill gaps. This would allow me
to preserve details like the corner braces. Instead, I think that I will
simply drop Al W's windows into a new side, after cutting them out of the
XL kit side. The other details are pretty easy to add (DA NBW castings,
styrene for the fascia and corner braces)...heck this might be easier! In
both cases I would use the XL kit ends, and the board spacing is "close
enough" that no one will notice the difference between the ends and the
sides. Of course I'll use the XL unterframe as well. As it is, I'll need
to use TWO XL kits to harvest the correct windows, but parts of the second
one will get put to use building an FXL "living and idler" flat car...

In the end, these bashes will fit right in with the other 8 PRR MOW XL camp
cars that will make up three (or four) seperate MOW trains on my layout.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Rivets-AISC book

cornbeltroute <cornbeltroute@...>
 

Right! 4th, 5th edition, USED, for cheap, is what you want.
If you have one of these, and realize what you're looking at in a
photo, you can approximate scale a lot better . . . SGL <

So, the formal title of the desired reference book is, "AISC Manual"?
Thanks,
Brian Chapman


Re: Freight car siding

Charles Morrill <badlands@...>
 

Noticed in latest Micromark catalog a scriber #60728 specifically for making siding.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: ABDean
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 7:43 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight car siding


Bruce....

Time to fall back to the old dental tool method for making siding if
you can't find an Evergreen stock item to match. Rather than take
up everyone's reading time with this here on the board, if you'll
email me , I'll walk you through the steps.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaay back when I first started building styrene models in
the late 60's we didn't have Evergreen, just plain old sheet
styrene...so, necessity being the mother of something....

give me a shout.

Buck Dean
Lexington, KY


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Re: S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

I think there is a photo of one of these Wabash cars being
repainted as N&W 361428 on the N&W archives photo server.

At 10:50 AM 7/12/2002, you wrote:

David and Ben,

The Wabash cars with the flush side sills are a result of a second
rebuilding which started two years after the period of this group---
1962. Car bodies from 83, 84, and 85000 series rebuilt cars were
placed on the floor and underframes from 13500-14849 series 41'-6"
gondolas. Trucks from the gons, both AAR standard and Andrews, were
used. The rebuilt cars were numbered 85200-85899 and had both 10'-4"
and 10'-0" IH's. Car interiors were lined with plywood
for class A loading. Side sills appeared to riveted to the
underframe and the car body welded to the side sill. The center sill
which was a foot longer than usual stuck out an equal amount on each
end of the car. Cars were noted for some having a combination of
corrugated and dreadnaught ends, sometimes on the same end. Car
85346 had a 3/7/4, B end, with the top two sections corrugated and
the bottom dreadnaught. Sorry I snuck past 1960.

Chet French
Dixon, IL

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:
James D Thompson wrote:

There were some clone rebuilds that had flush sills, Wabash comes to
mind. Also, RF&P's lone s/s rebuild had flush sills. As for the
brackets, some rebuilds used a t-shaped piece rather than a
triangular cast bracket.


David, thanks for the reminder - I have several photos of the
Wabash
rebuilds and should have noticed the flush side sills.
David and Ben,
The Wabash cars with the flush side sills are a result of a second
rebuilding which started two years after the period of this group---
1962. Car bodies from 83, 84, and 85000 series rebuilt cars were
placed on the floor and underframes from 13500-14849 series 41'-6"
gondolas. Trucks from the gons, both AAR standard and Andrews, were
used. The rebuilt cars were numbered 85200-85899 and had both 10'-4"
and 10'-0" IH's. Car interiors were lined with plywood
for class A loading. Side sills appeared to riveted to the
underframe and the car body welded to the side sill. The center sill
which was a foot longer than usual stuck out an equal amount on each
end of the car. Cars were noted for some having a combination of
corrugated and dreadnaught ends, sometimes on the same end. Car
85346 had a 3/7/4, B end, with the top two sections corrugated and
the
bottom dreadnaught. Sorry I snuck past 1960.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


RF&P s/s Rebuild (was: S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar")

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

RF&P did a SS rebuild? You learn something new every day. Anyone
got more info and pictures?
RF&P 2598, rebuilt 9/39 with 5-panel sides and 5-panel welded doors,
what looks from the side like a Viking roof, a power brakewheel, and
inside dimensions of: 40'6" il; 9'2" iw; 10'3" ih; which would have
required some work to raise the ends but I have no details on that.
It was renumbered to 1132 at some point and was still running in 1968.

David Thompson, I put a photo in the Files section...


Re: Rivets-AISC book

Alan C. Welch <acwelch@...>
 

At 01:41 PM 7/11/2002 +0000, you wrote:

Just ordered the following title from Powell's Books, $10 used plus
shipping. Is this book the one you're all talking about?

Steel Construction 5ed a Manual for Arch (itects?)
Aisc / 1949
The full title is: "Steel Construction Manual of the American Institute of Steel Construction". I find it very useful. When all you have to work with is an old General Arrangement drawing it's very difficult to determine what the actual size of structural sections is.

Al


Re: Freight car siding

ABDean <bdean@...>
 

Bruce....

Time to fall back to the old dental tool method for making siding if
you can't find an Evergreen stock item to match. Rather than take
up everyone's reading time with this here on the board, if you'll
email me , I'll walk you through the steps.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaay back when I first started building styrene models in
the late 60's we didn't have Evergreen, just plain old sheet
styrene...so, necessity being the mother of something....

give me a shout.

Buck Dean
Lexington, KY


Re: S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

James D Thompson wrote:

There were some clone rebuilds that had flush sills, Wabash comes to
mind. Also, RF&P's lone s/s rebuild had flush sills. As for the
brackets, some rebuilds used a t-shaped piece rather than a
triangular cast bracket.


David, thanks for the reminder - I have several photos of the Wabash
rebuilds and should have noticed the flush side sills.

RF&P did a SS rebuild? You learn something new every day. Anyone
got more info and pictures?

The comparison to PRR Class X29B implied the T-shaped brackets - I
should have made that more explicit. Still, I haven't seen any
examples of this on a SS or DS rebuild.

All of this aside, the model still fails to capture the "wider body
dropped onto a older more narrow underframe" look; it's just visibly
too narrow.


Ben Hom


Re: UP freight cars?

peter_markum <peter.markum@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@a...> wrote:

Any news on these?
Trix, the 2-rail DC subsidiary of Märklin, has recently announced
the following:
20pack of UP B-50-24/27 with Kadee-compatible couplers and RP25
wheelsets for EUR 538 (T24900) as well as the CA-4 caboose in
pre-1947 brown (T24901, EUR 36), no delivery date given.

Regards,
Peter Markum
Vienna, Austria.


Re: Rivets-AISC book

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

Right! 4th, 5th edition, USED, for cheap, is what you want.

If you have one of these, and realize what you're looking at in a photo, you
can approximate scale a lot better . . .

SGL

----- Original Message -----
From: "ABDean" <bdean@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 10:57 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Rivets-AISC book


I may be too late to jump into this discussion , but before everyone
runs out to the nearest college bookstore to buy the most current
AISC Manual , please note that many steel connections, details, and
sections have been removed from current steel fabrication practices
(in favor of hi-tens welding and bolted connections and higher
strength steel materials), plus as another reader pointed out, the
common "car building" sections have been replaced as well.

Best bet would be to dig around used book sites for AISC manuals from
the 40's and earlier, when those methods were still "en vogue" -
however, I'm not sure what all this information is going to do to for
a model builder other than give him a migrain.

The book this gentlemen found is probably the Architect's reference
guide book that shows the basic dimensional properties of steel
sections, plate, etc. This would be worth having - if only for the
building component.

Buck Dean, P.E.
Lexington,KY



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Re: Rivets-AISC book

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 



Just ordered the following title from Powell's Books, $10 used plus
shipping. Is this book the one you're all talking about?

Steel Construction 5ed a Manual for Arch (itects?)
Aisc / 1949
Not precisely, but a good start. It's a simplified version for architects
(I am one, so I can say that!)

SGL


Re: S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

First, the side sills are incorrect for any SS or DS rebuild - there is
no noticeable inset, and the brackets are actually closer to those used
on Pennsy Class X29 rebuilds than anything used on an SS or DS rebuild.
There were some clone rebuilds that had flush sills, Wabash comes to
mind. Also, RF&P's lone s/s rebuild had flush sills. As for the brackets,
some rebuilds used a t-shaped piece rather than a triangular cast bracket.

David Thompson


S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Hello all,

Normally I try to avoid posting info outside of my scale, but I just posted
a reply on the Pennsy list concerning these cars and I thought I'd share of
my thoughts here with the list, especially Jeff English, Earl Tuson, and the
local S scale community.

S Helper Service recently released a "40 ft Rebuilt Boxcar" in S Scale
(http://www.showcaseline.com/index.html). Unfortunately, the model has a
number of serious shortcomings.

For those who came in late here at STMFC, some quick notes on the
prototype: Even though Youngstown marketed kits to the railroads during
the 1930s to rebuild single- and double-sheathed boxcars, each individual
railroad approached rebuilding cars in a different manner, with some roads
simply replacing the sides while retaining the original roof and ends;
others replacing the sides and roof while retaining the ends, and one (KCS)
doing a USRA DS rebuild in 1949 by fitting a modern boxcar body, ends and
all on top of the old underframe. Almost all rebuilds increased the height
of the car, and railroads took different approaches to making the ends
taller, with some adding a blank panel and others splicing in sections of
Murphy ends. The cars were also widened - a reliable spotting feature of a
rebuilt SS or DS boxcar is an indented side sill with trapezoidal or
triangular brackets supporting the new steel sides. The wider cars required
end modifications as well - most railroads simply used an angle to join the
ends to the side creating an indent there, but some roads used sheet metal
to widen the ends creating a more familiar square corner. The original
trucks were almost always reused; the underframe was always reused. The net
result is that rebuilt boxcars were unique to each railroad. For a more
detailed account of USRA DS rebuilds, see "Steel Side USRA Rebuilds," Parts
1 and 2 by Martin Lofton in the September and October 1989 Railroad Model
Craftsman.

The Model: The S Helper Service model has some serious problems with the
sides. The model has eight-panel steel sides, which is correct for many of
the rebuilds except those who used ten-panel sides (ATSF, PRR). However,
the sides have two problems. First, the side sills are incorrect for any SS
or DS rebuild - there is no noticeable inset, and the brackets are actually
closer to those used on Pennsy Class X29 rebuilds than anything used on an
SS or DS rebuild. Without this inset, the car is too narrow and fails to
capture the look of a wider new carbody fitted to a narrow older underframe.
In fact, it's pretty obvious that the tooling for this car was modified from
SHS's USRA SS
boxcar.

Here's a rundown of the model's details:
Roof: Original USRA steel sheathed roof.
Ends: Unmodified 5/5/5 Murphy ends.
Sides: Eight-panel sides. No distinct inset side sill. T-section support
brackets.
Underframe: USRA SS car (?)

This model is probably closest to the ACL and SL-SF USRA DS rebuilds;
however, the side sills are wrong and the model lacks the heavy fishbelly
underframe of the DS rebuilds.

This model is better left to the American Flyer crowd. Serious S scalers
deserve better.


Ben Hom

185401 - 185420 of 195428