Date   

Re: Tractors per Flatcar & Rates Charged?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Larry Jackman notes:

You can be asured that the rate will be high enough that you will not
want to ship one tractor. So if I want to ship a carload of wheat, can I
ship one grain in the car?
I dunno about grain...or even one tractor...although there is a shot in a
Pentrex Big Boy tape clearly showing one piece of farm equipment on one flat
car and, of course, we have the single bull dozer on the flat car in
Crossing Sherman Hill. The point is not, however, that John Dere is
necessarily shipping new tractors to a distributor but, rather, a
distributor...say down in Greeley, CO shipping less than 6 to Harriman, WY,
and good ol' rancher Sam Morecows who only needs 4 of the damned things and
you cannot drive a truck easily to Harriman in May,1953 even if you could
find a truck in Chian or find Harriman for that matter since it didn't even
exist until Feb, 1953.

Mike Brock
.


Re: Tractors per Flatcar & Rates Charged?

lawrence Jackman <ljack70117@...>
 

You can be asured that the rate will be high enough that you will not
want to ship one tractor. So if I want to ship a carload of wheat, can I
ship one grain in the car?
Thank you
Lawrence.

dehusman wrote:


--- In STMFC@y..., CBarkan@a... wrote:
I agree with Mike's point on this but it raises the question of the
basis for
the charges. If the car was full was it considered a bulk
shipment, and if
not were they considered LCL and subject to a different freight
rate? Or was
there some threshold? Anybody know more about how this worked?
======================
It depends on the tariff, if its a carload rate then one tractor or 6
tractors is carload. If its a rate per pound or item then there was
probably a minimum weight or number of items required to get the
rate. Less than that probably went at a higher rate. The maximum
number was set by the capacity of the equipment.

Dave H


Re: Farmalls and Mix'd freights

ian clasper <ian@...>
 

Looking at that flatcar, I would say that it had a full load as all the
visible tractors are loaded to the side suggesting that there are more than
the three visible tractors.
As a side note, I attended an Airshow today where I photographed both a John
Deere model B and a Farmall H (It is amazing what turns up at these events
!). I will post the shots in the file area for everyones reference.

Also of note is the load of green 6 wheel quary dump trucks on page 156.

Ian Clasper

----- Original Message -----
From: <tgregmrtn@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 9:47 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Farmalls and Mix'd freights


Hey Yuze Guys,

I have been doing a little photo research on Farmalls and mix'd freights
and
I found a shot in (the Late) Don Ball Jr's book America's Colorful
Railroads.
Here is what I have found so far ... on page 178, at the bottom a 1956 UP
mix'd steam local and two cars back there are at least 3 Farmalls on an
unidentifiable flat. (great color photo though check out the stock cars).
I
find some of his books very good for reference but the quality of some of
the
prints he published sometimes leaves a little to be desired. This photo is
quite nice as the color held up on it over the years just right.

Greg Martin


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Re: Farmalls and Mix'd freights

lawrence Jackman <ljack70117@...>
 

I think there would be a restriction on how few tractors you can put on
a flat car. The RR is not going haul a half empty car. They will put a
minimum to to keep revenues up. Like hauling wheat. The RR likes you to
load to the max but would haul the car if it was a little under the max
for the same rate per ton. If you want a carload rate you have to load a carload.
There is another possibility when you see a less than full flat of
tractors. The car was probably full when it left the plant.
Then you have a unload enroute feature. You are shipping A to C and want
to stop at B to unload some of them. You pay the carload rate to C on
all the tractors and a small fee to stop at B to unload some. I do not
remember if two stops were allowed but I know one stop is allowed as I
handled several of these when I was a clerk on the UPRR at Salina Ks.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

Mike Brock wrote:


Greg Martin writes:

I have been doing a little photo research on Farmalls and mix'd freights
and
I found a shot in (the Late) Don Ball Jr's book America's Colorful
Railroads.
Here is what I have found so far ... on page 178, at the bottom a 1956 UP
mix'd steam local and two cars back there are at least 3 Farmalls on an
unidentifiable flat. (great color photo though check out the stock cars)
Greg, good info. Let us know of other shots. I have completed putting 4
Athearn tractors on an F-50-11 52 ft flat car...cables and all. The issue of
how many tractors and their placement is an interesting one and it is best
to not jump to too many conclusions about rules I think. Some have written
something about no less than 6 tractors to a car. I doubt that there would
be any restrictions on how few tractors could be placed on a car. If a
customer wanted to ship less than 6...he would and I suspect that the RR
would be glad to provide a car. There is an interesting shot of tractors on
a flat in Big Boy Portraits, pg 93. There are two tractors in a position
somewhat parallel to the car and one at the far end one at a 90� to the
others [ July 1954 ]. I have not seen this arrangement in an AAR plan.

Mike Brock


Re: Tractors per Flatcar & Rates Charged?

dehusman <dehusman@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., CBarkan@a... wrote:
I agree with Mike's point on this but it raises the question of the
basis for
the charges. If the car was full was it considered a bulk
shipment, and if
not were they considered LCL and subject to a different freight
rate? Or was
there some threshold? Anybody know more about how this worked?
======================
It depends on the tariff, if its a carload rate then one tractor or 6
tractors is carload. If its a rate per pound or item then there was
probably a minimum weight or number of items required to get the
rate. Less than that probably went at a higher rate. The maximum
number was set by the capacity of the equipment.

Dave H


Re: Tractors per Flatcar & Rates Charged?

Greg Martin
 

Mike and all,

Being in the Transloading Business in today's world I have to say I will ship
anything that you want me to in your car as long as it doesn't go over gross
to the car. The rate will be the same THANK YOU. $7200.00 to Nichols siding
in Brooklyn, NY or $7400.00 to most spots in Florida and yes we do ship there
quite often. The point is that most freight moves on a per car rate. But
items like grain, coal, minerals, and bulk commodities move on a per hundred
weight. I think it was this way in the 50's as well, Farm Implements likely
moved just as autos and auto parts on a per car basis. So ship only four but
cover your freight as we would remind you...

Greg Martin


Re: Farmalls and Mix'd freights

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I looking at an article from 2-95 RMC p.92. It's by Robert Smaus, it's a how
to for making UP 53'6" flats. He has four John Deere's crosswise and shows a
sketch for crosswise loading from the 1947 AAR rules.
Clark

Mike Brock wrote:

Greg Martin writes:

I have been doing a little photo research on Farmalls and mix'd freights
and
I found a shot in (the Late) Don Ball Jr's book America's Colorful
Railroads.
Here is what I have found so far ... on page 178, at the bottom a 1956 UP
mix'd steam local and two cars back there are at least 3 Farmalls on an
unidentifiable flat. (great color photo though check out the stock cars)
Greg, good info. Let us know of other shots. I have completed putting 4
Athearn tractors on an F-50-11 52 ft flat car...cables and all. The issue of
how many tractors and their placement is an interesting one and it is best
to not jump to too many conclusions about rules I think. Some have written
something about no less than 6 tractors to a car. I doubt that there would
be any restrictions on how few tractors could be placed on a car. If a
customer wanted to ship less than 6...he would and I suspect that the RR
would be glad to provide a car. There is an interesting shot of tractors on
a flat in Big Boy Portraits, pg 93. There are two tractors in a position
somewhat parallel to the car and one at the far end one at a 90� to the
others [ July 1954 ]. I have not seen this arrangement in an AAR plan.

Mike Brock


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: Farmalls and Mix'd freights

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Greg Martin writes:

I have been doing a little photo research on Farmalls and mix'd freights
and
I found a shot in (the Late) Don Ball Jr's book America's Colorful
Railroads.
Here is what I have found so far ... on page 178, at the bottom a 1956 UP
mix'd steam local and two cars back there are at least 3 Farmalls on an
unidentifiable flat. (great color photo though check out the stock cars)
Greg, good info. Let us know of other shots. I have completed putting 4
Athearn tractors on an F-50-11 52 ft flat car...cables and all. The issue of
how many tractors and their placement is an interesting one and it is best
to not jump to too many conclusions about rules I think. Some have written
something about no less than 6 tractors to a car. I doubt that there would
be any restrictions on how few tractors could be placed on a car. If a
customer wanted to ship less than 6...he would and I suspect that the RR
would be glad to provide a car. There is an interesting shot of tractors on
a flat in Big Boy Portraits, pg 93. There are two tractors in a position
somewhat parallel to the car and one at the far end one at a 90� to the
others [ July 1954 ]. I have not seen this arrangement in an AAR plan.

Mike Brock


Tractors per Flatcar & Rates Charged?

CBarkan@...
 

I agree with Mike's point on this but it raises the question of the basis for
the charges. If the car was full was it considered a bulk shipment, and if
not were they considered LCL and subject to a different freight rate? Or was
there some threshold? Anybody know more about how this worked?

Chris

In a message dated 7/15/02 5:08:49 AM, brockm@... writes:

The issue of
how many tractors and their placement is an interesting one and it is best
to not jump to too many conclusions about rules I think. Some have written
something about no less than 6 tractors to a car. I doubt that there would
be any restrictions on how few tractors could be placed on a car. If a
customer wanted to ship less than 6...he would and I suspect that the RR
would be glad to provide a car.


Re: SHS rebuilds

BlackDiamondRR@...
 

Ben, You have some good points, but if you've never been an S scaler, you
just wouldn't understand the logic we sometimes subscribe to. Like the one
Harley Davidson ad states: "if I have to explain, you just wouldn't
understand" I too am picky on my choices of rolling stock and try to correct
any inaccuracies as time and ability permits, I find the 98% majority of
people who would see the layout wouldn't know the difference but I build to
satisfy my own standards. Having been forced to kitbash Am Flyer, build
wooden craftsman kits, etc over the years, I've realized that I ain't gonna
live forever and the eysight and manual dexterity are already not what they
once were (which is why I went into S years ago) So I'll buy only a few of
these inaccurate cars to hopefully be replaced by the more accurate kitbashes
as time permits (if I do end end up living long enough to enjoy the fruits of
the labor) You HO guys are fortunate to have so many choices but I wouldn't
trade places with you for anything. Bud


Farmalls and Mix'd freights

Greg Martin
 

Hey Yuze Guys,

I have been doing a little photo research on Farmalls and mix'd freights and
I found a shot in (the Late) Don Ball Jr's book America's Colorful Railroads.
Here is what I have found so far ... on page 178, at the bottom a 1956 UP
mix'd steam local and two cars back there are at least 3 Farmalls on an
unidentifiable flat. (great color photo though check out the stock cars). I
find some of his books very good for reference but the quality of some of the
prints he published sometimes leaves a little to be desired. This photo is
quite nice as the color held up on it over the years just right.

Greg Martin


S: AM quad as H21

Earl Tuson
 

George Courtney asked on the S-scale list:

I was just wondering if there were any SPF's or freight
car specialist who would comment on the possiblity of
converting one of those AM 4 bay hoppers by slicing off
the two center bays and reversing them. How close to one
of the Pennsy H21 versions, as a stand in model? (Hope
H21 is correct)
George, I purchased a undec AM quad to explore the
possibility of the same conversion you are contemplating,
or alternately, to a PRR H25. For resources, I use John
Teichmoeller's PRR Hopper Car book. I am not sure how
close you want the car to be, so for now I will just cover
some basic aspects.

The AM car and the H21 both feature <rather> equally
spaced, 12 panel sides. The AM car sides are 7' 5" from
the bottom of the sill to the top of the side, while the
H21 measured 7' 3" at the same spot. The AM car is 10' 5"
on the outside width; H21's were 10' 3". Outside length
for the model is 42' 3", while the prototype had a 40' 2"
inside length.

The end sills and end supports aren't remotely close.
Since work would be needed there (a H21 without a heavy end
sill just wouldn't be an H21,) you could probably fix the
length issue simultaneously. All the side stakes require
shaping to resemble the "standard" PRR tapered stake, and
as you already know, the two center hoppers much be
reworked to face the opposite direction.

Want more than that?

If fairly close would such a hopper show up in s.w.
Virginia in the late 1950's. Hauling limestone or gravel
or salt for highway depts?
I'll let someone else tackle that question.

Last does the AM 4 bay hopper represent any prototype?
Not a complaint, just curious. Of course I wouldn't
consider doing stand-in's for the NYC or the SP, or the
DT&I, etc. >G<.
It appears that the "ribbed" quad was tooled using the AM
offset quad as a starting point, and thus is not strictly
accurate for anything. However, there are other roads
besides the PRR who received 12 panel ~40' quads that these
cars could be used as a starting place to model (B&O W-1's
cmoe to mind.)

The offset quad, on the other hand, is a fair
representation of a 1928 ARA design quad hopper. See
Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol 5 for an excellent 16 page
article covering those prototypes.

Earl Tuson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com


Re: SHS rebuilds

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bud Rindfleisch wrote:

"Hello, I am one of those S scalers on this list and feel I have to mention
that although S Helper service is guilty of making an improper "rebuilt"
boxcar, the majority of their models are better than very good."

Yeah, but when they screw up, it's a doozy - the "rebuild" and USRA DS
cars are examples of what happens when you recycle tooling too many times -
each compromise that you make adds up until you have a model that's a
mishmash of several prototypes that doesn't represent anything. Think of it
like trying to drive a mountain road in a car with the windows painted over
with a stopwatch and road map. You'll do okay at first, but pretty soon
your errors add up and you end up going over a cliff.


"It also has to be pointed out that the very limited market for S scale
(including Hi-rail and/or tinplate) is fortunate indeed to have these
injection molded plastic models."

That's true, but a badly done kit of a previously unavailable prototype has
the effect of drawing off sales of better models that come later, especially
in a limited market such as S scale. The Kadee PS-1 broke this trend, so
maybe there's hope. Then again, HO is a much bigger market.


"Without those SHS cars to help fill in the roster quickly, I'd be hard
pressed to get a lengthy train together."

That was true 15 years ago in HO too, but we didn't get to where we are
today by accepting bad models. An inaccurate kit is an inaccurate kit, no
matter what the scale. $35 is a lot to spend on a train filler. Why should
you reward a manufacturer for making willful mistakes?


Ben Hom


Re: SHS rebuilds

BlackDiamondRR@...
 

Hello, I am one of those S scalers on this list and feel I have to mention
that although S Helper service is guilty of making an improper "rebuilt"
boxcar, the majority of their models are better than very good. It also has
to be pointed out that the very limited market for S scale (including Hi-rail
and/or tinplate) is fortunate indeed to have these injection molded plastic
models. Hey, I don't even complain that the cars come equipped with Hi-rail
wheels and AF compatible couplers, the code .110 scale wheelsets are included
and easy to install. Buying and installing the Kadee S scale 802's is also of
no major concern for me. I don't plan to have a several hundred car fleet,
maybe 150 when all is said and done. I don't even mind buying the occasional
"incorrect" car to help the cause. I also still build craftsman kits and the
plastic Pacific Rail Products kits along with a few of this list's beloved
resin kits (NYC Despatch hopper and Erie Dunmore, both F&C kits) An
occasional scratchbuilt car when I find the time (DL&W 42' wood milk car in
progress). Oh yes also working on one of Earl's Std Rwy Castings kits.
Without those SHS cars to help fill in the roster quickly, I'd be hard
pressed to get a lengthy train together. Thanks for reading guys, buy
yourself at least one S scale car for your display shelf, I don't think
you'll be disappointed. Bud Rindfleisch


Re: S Helper Service "Rebuilt Boxcar"

Earl Tuson
 

From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" <b.hom@...>

Normally I try to avoid posting info outside of my scale,
but I just posted a reply on the Pennsy list concerning
these cars and I thought I'd share of my thoughts here
with the list, especially Jeff English, Earl Tuson, and
the local S scale community.
Several of the S scalers on this list discuss S specific
prototype modeling, primarily freight cars, in a different
forum, after having had a "trainset bozo" sort of
experience on the so-called S scale yahoo group.

S Helper Service recently released a "40 ft Rebuilt
Boxcar" in S Scale
Actually, it has been around for many years now.

the model has a number of serious shortcomings.
Yep, we have covered the car on both this list and the
alternate S scale one.

it's pretty obvious that the tooling for this car was
modified from SHS's USRA SS boxcar.
You are quite correct in this regard. The SHS USRA SS,
"S-40-10" stockcar, rebuilt boxcars, and more recently,
their USRA DS car, all share some tooling. The models have
progressively strayed further from their intended prototype
on each successive reuse of the molds. The DS car still
uses the SS car's narrow ends, the side sill is flush with
the outside of the sheathing, and the Murphy XLA roof
overhangs the car sides. If you did not know they intended
it to be a USRA DS car, you would not guess. It is an
absolute caricature; I would rather run a AF "X-29" than
this abomination. F&C did a lousy kit of the USRA DS years
ago. I have two, and will rework them rather than... How
many ways can I express my disatisfaction?

Underframe: USRA SS car (?)
FWIW, the most recent paint scheme released using this body
has in fact included a fishbelly underframe fairly
approximating the USRA cars', having been borrowed from
their ACF Type 3 reefer.

This model is probably closest to the ACL and SL-SF USRA
DS rebuilds;
The latter is the new scheme I refer to. Curiously, SHS
has never offered the rebuild in ACL or CW&C reporting
marks, despite my having made them very aware of the
prototypes and directing them to (Jim Six's?) article.

This model is better left to the American Flyer crowd.
That does describe the bulk of SHS customers.

Serious S scalers deserve better.
Such as my SRCC kits!

Despite the paragraphs above, SHS can be commended for
several of their cars: the 53'6" GSC flat, PS-2 hopper, and
USRA SS are good reproductions of the intended prototype.
I have never researched the stock car, never laid hands on
a three bay PS-2, and don't care about the International
extended vision caboose, although I have heard good things
about it. The is somewhere between the first three and the
rebuild. SHS's next project is going to be a 14000 series
LV composite hopper, which will probably later morph into a
USRA twin and a 20's era NYC 30'6" offset twin (how do you
spell disaster?) They have announced that they will make a
steel roof for the reefer, mount it on the USRA SS UF with
AB brakes, and offer more roadnames for that one.

Earl Tuson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com


Re: How Many chalk Marks????

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Now I'm not saying that anybody is wrong here. I'm just looking to do
the job right the first time. Is there some average range of chalk marks I
should shoot for. Thanks in advance. Just like to say that the Shineshine
decals are very nice to work with.
Chalk washed off pretty quickly -- if it rained. If not, then
marks could persist for quite a while. Like you I've seen photos
of many cars with no marks; but I've seen photos of cars with
many marks. How many to apply to your models calls for application
of judgement -- there is no "right" answer.


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


How Many chalk Marks????

Peter Reinhold <paintplustrains@...>
 

Greetings list Members,

The weekend is here and I'm putting some of Sunshines' chalk markings on
some cars. I've noted that on the Shineshine flyers that there are often
more than a half dozen chalk marks on the side of a car. Is this for real?
I've dug through my limited collection of photos and can find at most 3
chalk mark on the side of a car.

Now I'm not saying that anybody is wrong here. I'm just looking to do
the job right the first time. Is there some average range of chalk marks I
should shoot for. Thanks in advance. Just like to say that the Shineshine
decals are very nice to work with.

Pete Reinhold
Paint Plus Trains
375 fourth Street
Prairie Du Sac, WI. 53578
608-643-4325
paintplustrains@...


Re: Freight car siding

endeimling@...
 

I have scribed my own siding material back in the olda
days (pre-Evergreen). I used a "Kohliner" mechanical
line spacer to properly space the lines. I believe the
false T-G siding is 5.25" wide with a false groove in
the center. This would make the apparent boardwidth
narrower than the normal 3.25" board width found on most
cars.

Gene

Buck sez again:

You are welcome; however, apparently you have found the line between
to the two points to be straighter than imagined previously. It
usually takes me a couple of cups of coffee.

I will point out that what Charlie M. sez about the styrene scriber
from Micro Mark should make all take note...these are VERY handy and
there's always that need for some sort of something like this once in
awhile.

Buck Dean
Lexington, KY



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: Freight car siding

ABDean <bdean@...>
 

Buck sez again:

You are welcome; however, apparently you have found the line between
to the two points to be straighter than imagined previously. It
usually takes me a couple of cups of coffee.

I will point out that what Charlie M. sez about the styrene scriber
from Micro Mark should make all take note...these are VERY handy and
there's always that need for some sort of something like this once in
awhile.

Buck Dean
Lexington, KY


Questions on SAL B-7/AF-1 boxcars

salfan2001 <ThisIsR@...>
 

Hello:
I have a few questions relating to SEABOARD's B-7 and AF-1
boxcars.
1)Did they have drop end style grabirons? The photos I have don't
really show the grabs too well.
2)What kind of handbrakes did they have?
3)What kind of trucks?
4)I'm assuming by the late WW2 years or late 1940s these cars would
have had steel running boards. Correct?
Thank you for your assistance.

Richard Stallworth

186781 - 186800 of 196824