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Re: Tanks et al

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Shawn Beckert wrote:
As a tank car enthusiast almost as much as Richard H.,
but without his vast knowledge, I've been following this
conversation with great interest. What I've gathered from
this is that the problem isn't so much the tank itself as
it is coming up with a suitable underframe. Even in my
ignorance it seems to me that a tank, rivets or not, should
not be a problem for the more notorious members of this
list. Fabricating an underframe might be another story. I'm
thinking that if someone (there's that word again) could
design underframe parts that could be interchangeable as far
as different lengths or even width, that might go a long way
towards creating the ability to 'bash different car designs.
To paraphrase: "If you make the frame, the tanks will follow".

I'm sensing just the opposite. There are lots of underframe parts out there,
and I don't think too many of us would blanch at the thought of hacking
together a suitable underframe - if only we had the conical-riveted tanks of
assorted sizes. It's a daunting project to shave those rivets off of IM tank
bodies and then place them precisely onto a different body, but the nice
thing about masters is it only has to be done right one time. So it takes
you 3X or 4X the time a "good enough" model does - you can have 2, or 10, or
50 for the same effort. (Better yet, _I_ can have some too, because I'll do
the casting if Al or Martin won't.)

Tom


Branchline reefers and insulated boxcars

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

Thanks to Al Westerfield, I have probably all of the ACF reefers I will want, except maybe the Western Refrigerator version offered by Branchline. The scheme they show on their web page looks to me like it is the "as delivered" one. I don't seem to have any post WWII in-service photos of these cars. Can anyone tell me the date of the scheme branchline is using. I do have a set of the old Champ decals, but come to think of it I don't know if it an early or late scheme.

Regarding their 50 foot insulated boxcars, I think most of these are too late for me (after October 1955), but in one of their displays somewhere, San Jose maybe, it looked like models they had painted up of the QA&P and ART examples may have been as early as 1955. Can anyone enlighten me as to the date of the earlist of these cars. I thought maybe RMJ would do an article to educate us but it does not seem to be happening.


Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399


Re: Tanks et al

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

I concur with Tom. Our niche of the hobby, i.e. prototype modelers, are too whinny and uncreative. Resin has made practically everything possible and made me a much better modeler. I would have never have dreamed I could play a part in creating masters until I tried, and am now working on a second project. Most of us are probably capable of doing one thing at least. If we expect to wait for Frank H. to do it, we will have a long wait. Both Martin and Al use patterns created by modelers. My theory is if you have time to play on the Internet, you have time to apply to advancing fine scale modeling. We have great people like Tom who are willing to share their time and expertise. we should be helping and teaching each other rather than trying to get the attention of people who do not share our vision or passion!

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Or resin. I'm finding this thread increasingly frustrating, because if
someone on this list has the ability to make just one really good riveted
tank, the "availability" problem for that design (at least for the members
of this list) goes away. The tank body as molded by InterMountain is a
drop-dead easy one to cast in resin, what with its straight-walled internal
cavity. The dome could even be cast in place. If anyone's interested they
can contact me for guidelines on designing for casting.

What's needed is an end to the hand-wringing and for one or more of us to
step up and build good masters. We shouldn't have to wait for Frank Hodina,
or the undefined "someone else", to do everything.

Tom M. tgmadden@worldnet.att.net



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Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399


Re: Tanks et al

Shawn Beckert
 

Tom Madden wrote:

...I'm finding this thread increasingly frustrating,
because if someone on this list has the ability to
make just one really good riveted tank, the "availa-
bility" problem for that design (at least for the
members of this list) goes away.
<snip>

Tom,

As a tank car enthusiast almost as much as Richard H.,
but without his vast knowledge, I've been following this
conversation with great interest. What I've gathered from
this is that the problem isn't so much the tank itself as
it is coming up with a suitable underframe. Even in my
ignorance it seems to me that a tank, rivets or not, should
not be a problem for the more notorious members of this
list. Fabricating an underframe might be another story. I'm
thinking that if someone (there's that word again) could
design underframe parts that could be interchangeable as far
as different lengths or even width, that might go a long way
towards creating the ability to 'bash different car designs.
To paraphrase: "If you make the frame, the tanks will follow".

Shawn Beckert


Tanks et al

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Vertical courses. Overland and W&R did some. But I have to concur
with Byron, plastic is the way to go with riveted tank cars.

Or resin. I'm finding this thread increasingly frustrating, because if
someone on this list has the ability to make just one really good riveted
tank, the "availability" problem for that design (at least for the members
of this list) goes away. The tank body as molded by InterMountain is a
drop-dead easy one to cast in resin, what with its straight-walled internal
cavity. The dome could even be cast in place. If anyone's interested they
can contact me for guidelines on designing for casting.

What's needed is an end to the hand-wringing and for one or more of us to
step up and build good masters. We shouldn't have to wait for Frank Hodina,
or the undefined "someone else", to do everything.

Tom M. tgmadden@worldnet.att.net


SP Rock Hoppers

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Tim O'C. opined:
How about ..... SP rock hoppers.
I'm not a post-'60s kinda guy (except age-wise), but those may be available.
Bruce's Train Shop in Sacramento has some HO private label resin
sand/gravel/ballast SP hoppers for sale, and I've uploaded a photo of an
H-100-23 model to http://home.att.net/~tgmadden/SP_hopper.jpg

They're very nicely done, and an incredible value in that they're assembled,
complete with grabs and truck mounting screws.They have four different ones,
but I only bought the H-100-23 (and that upon the insistence of Jim Booth
and Dave Hussey). There's no clue on either the box or the instructions as
to the manufacturer, and the fellow behind the counter (not Bruce) just said
it was someone locally who made them in his garage. I was on my way home and
had to drive to Wendover UT that day so couldn't pursue things, but maybe
someone from the Sacto area could enlighten us. Painted and lettered
versions of all four were on display, and quite frankly I didn't realize
they were assembled and not kits until I got home the next day and opened
the box!

Tom M.


Early PRR box cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I started noticing Pennsy box cars and it appears that their X29 was their
first box car with the door sliding to the right. Even their "heater"
(ventilated) box car c. 1893 had the main door on the left and the
ventilator door on the right. Anyone know of any exceptions off-hand? (or
is that left-hand?)

- John


Re: Silica Sand

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Bill is right - Diatomeous. . . swimming pool filter material makes great
sand and great dirt. As it is white, it can colored to any shade you want.
If you can't find dry colors, you could glue it down and paint it with any
paint, even Floquil. We made an entire beach out of it for our Lake George
scene. - John

----- Original Message -----
From: <ted_culotta@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 12:06 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Silica Sand


Can anyone recommend a good source for something that looks like HO
scale silica sand?

Thanks in advance.

Ted Culotta


Re: Silica Sand

Bill Schneider <branch@...>
 

Its so nice to get Byron's input on this list; I for one miss him on the
FCL.... :>)

How about Diatomaceous (sp?) earth, sold for pool filters. This stuff is
super fine, fairly cheap, comes in a large bag, and also works great for
sand areas on scenery (you ARE building another layout, aren't you
Ted?!) It can be mixed with dry artist's pigments to color it - its
natural state is white.

BTW, What size hammer would you recommend Lord Byron?

Bill Schneider

byronrose@juno.com wrote:


Hi Ted,

Have you considered sanding real silica sand down to scale size?

Or do like they do to coal, put it in a sock and hit it with a hammer.
That should beat those little rascals down to size.

Glad to help.

BS
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Re: Decommisioning

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Mike Broke (doing what he does best!) wrote

Geeez. And us with no HK-50's
Challenger, brass.

or HK-70-1's
Marklin, plastic? pot metal? tin foil?

or those tank cars with the rivet lines perpendicular to the track
Vertical courses. Overland and W&R did some. But I have to concur
with Byron, plastic is the way to go with riveted tank cars.

or insulated tank cars?
Any ones in particular that interest you?

You expect us to buy Cajun flat cars instead?
Not unless you're an SP modeler.

Heck, we still need the C&O two bay hopper.
You mean the alternate standard AAR design? I'm SURE this will be
done in plastic. Someday. It's just crying out for someone to do it.

Dare I mention the N&W HL or H9?
You can mention them, but brass hopper models of prototypes
that ran in groups of 100 on a single railroad doesn't seem
like a great idea.

And what about an R-40-14? For that matter, what about a 50'
PFE express reefer? Has anyone done one?
We could probably talk Frank Hodina into doing them both! That
would pretty much close the books on PFE models for the years
prior to 1950.

Yes, I know the athearn car can be made into a fairly good
stand in... [for a PFE express reefer]
I have the Metro brass model, and there is little resemblance
to the Athearn car.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Silica Sand

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Some guys at the local train club when to a construction
site some years ago, and collected a few coffee cans of very
fine sand -- almost powdered. I have since noticed this type
of sand at a local housing construction site. I recommend if
there is any sandy soil in your area to go to such a site.
Very fine grain sand tends to blow around and collect where
it's easy to scoop up. It makes wonderful scenic material.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX tank cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Byron Rose wrote

Please don't perpetrate any more brass tank cars, because no matter how
pretty they make all the detail parts, the tank rivets are still pimples!
And as much as I like the W&R 6k tank car, it pales next to the P2K 8k
type 21.
Good point. But welded or jacked tank cars don't have that
problem! It's easy to think of such cars - 12k/16k/19k 103's
and 11-12k 105's from the 1950's. Brass is very nice for the
1950's tank cars because of the open metal walkways.

Another good thing about tank cars is, if I can't sell them,
I can always use some more!

How about brass gondolas? Or hoppers? I can think immediately
of some mill gondolas, and SP rock hoppers. The HK-50 is being
done by Challenger, Mike!


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Silica Sand

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Byron wrote:
...... put it in a sock and hit it with a hammer.

I'd just as soon not even think about that.

1. Campbell included a small bag of something in their sand house kit. Yes,
I know that was supposed to represent traction sand and not silica sand, but
it looked pretty good.

2. One of the finer grades of aluminum oxide might work, although you
wouldn't want it loose around moving parts.

3. Ship it only in covered hoppers, which renders the point moot.

4. Make a shape of the pile/load of sand and "dry spray" it with an
appropriate color of Floquil. (Spray from too far away at too high a
pressure so the paint goes on grainy - an effect I get when I want it the
least.)

Tom M.

Moot moot!


Decommisioning

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor writes:

Just between you and me, I am seriously thinking about commissioning one
or more brass freight car projects.
Sounds interesting.

(Hey, that start up in 1997 paid off
after all!) For example, I would really like to have a whole train of SP
Clejan flatcars w/ trailers.
Huh?

Overland brought in Clejans last year for
about 150 dealer net. (They were not the SP version.) I wonder if I could
bring in 100 models, sell 80 at cost and keep 20 at cost -- I have no
interest in trying to make money or even get free models (although that
would be fine!). I simply want the models!!
What is a Clejan and who in their right mind would want trailers? Don't we
have enough of them in real life...clogging up the roads and all?

There are many tank cars I would love to see, including some earlier SP
cars, and that car people mistake for the Van Dyke (including me). Most
of the ones I'd really like to see are welded cars from the late 40's to
the late 50's. But, the Clejans w/ trailers are what I would like most.
Geeez. And us with no HK-50's or HK-70-1's or those tank cars with the rivet
lines perpendicular to the track or insulated tank cars? You expect us to
buy Cajun flat cars instead? Heck, we still need the C&O two bay hopper.
Dare I mention the N&W HL or H9? And what about an R-40-14? For that matter,
what about a 50' PFE express reefer? Has anyone done one? Yes, I know the
athearn car can be made into a fairly good stand in...I've done two and the
last one came out pretty good but I believe it's a bit too high.
but these days I feel like time
is more important than money. And I lost more money today on the stock
market than this mold idea would cost me.)

Any ideas, or suggestions?
Well, don't buy Amazon.com or anything.com. If we could get Aley off his
duff at Intel, I'd suggest that. Anyhow, don't buy anything until those guys
that sold early last yr have paid their taxes.

Oh...you mean what car[s] you should do? I already answered that.

Mike......might as well go on down into the bunker I guess.


Re: Silica Sand

BillD53A@...
 

Get permission from the site superintendant first, around these parts, theft
from a construction site is a second-degree felony. It may just be a coffee
can full of sand to you, but it is still theft to other people.


Re: Silica Sand

byronrose@...
 

On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 05:06:10 -0000 ted_culotta@yahoo.com writes:
Can anyone recommend a good source for something that looks like HO
scale silica sand?

Thanks in advance.

Ted Culotta

Hi Ted,

Have you considered sanding real silica sand down to scale size?

Or do like they do to coal, put it in a sock and hit it with a hammer.
That should beat those little rascals down to size.

Glad to help.

BS
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.


Silica Sand

ted_culotta@...
 

Can anyone recommend a good source for something that looks like HO
scale silica sand?

Thanks in advance.

Ted Culotta


Re: W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX tank cars

ibs4421@...
 

Tim,
Well, . . . my impression since coming here has been as such. A lot of info shared,and all of you have shown much patience and understanding with a rank beginner. 8^)

Warren

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 9:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX tank cars



>Just between you and me

OOOPS. I didn't mean to copy the list!! Oh well, we're all
friends here. I think.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


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Re: W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX tank cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Just between you and me
OOOPS. I didn't mean to copy the list!! Oh well, we're all
friends here. I think.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX tank cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

I recently had a long phone conversation with a brass importer who has all
the information and photos needed to produce excellent models of 1920s
vintage STC tank cars ... But the importer fears that models of ordinary
STC tank cars painted black with only reporting marks and numbers would
languish unsold ...
Just between you and me, I am seriously thinking about commissioning one
or more brass freight car projects. (Hey, that start up in 1997 paid off
after all!) For example, I would really like to have a whole train of SP
Clejan flatcars w/ trailers. Overland brought in Clejans last year for
about 150 dealer net. (They were not the SP version.) I wonder if I could
bring in 100 models, sell 80 at cost and keep 20 at cost -- I have no
interest in trying to make money or even get free models (although that
would be fine!). I simply want the models!!

There are many tank cars I would love to see, including some earlier SP
cars, and that car people mistake for the Van Dyke (including me). Most
of the ones I'd really like to see are welded cars from the late 40's to
the late 50's. But, the Clejans w/ trailers are what I would like most.

I spoke with Bill Schneider about the possibility of commissioning some
needed freight car parts -- like replacement underframes (Duryea, and
PS Hydraframe, for example) for kits. He pooh-poohed the idea. I thought
if we could make a mold set with 3 or 4 underframes, and other desirable
parts, that maybe it could return at least some of the investment. (I do
expect to lose some money on the deal... but these days I feel like time
is more important than money. And I lost more money today on the stock
market than this mold idea would cost me.)

Any ideas, or suggestions? I can't do anything soon, since my 12-hour
work days prevent me from doing much about these ideas... I hope that
will change before this summer.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

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