Date   

Re: OMI two dome tank car

Larry Sexton
 

Bruce, Ed, et all,



I agree that an insulated car would not be needed for either of the fluids I
discussed. However, when utilities bought secondhand tankcars in the 60s and
70s, they based their decisions on availability and cost. Most of the time
the fluid being moved was not even a consideration.



This discussion caused me to check on one of the recent brass tankcars I
purchased, an OMI GATX 8,000 gal, 3 dome, insulated tankcar purportedly
rebuilt in the 1940s. It's a beautiful tankcar and Richard Hendrickson told
me that it was probably based on a wine tankcar for which he has a photo.
Not to worry. I know that the Federal government took control of a number of
wine tankers during WWII for the transportation of industrial alcohol and a
few other priority liquids in support of the war effort. I don't recall
which companies received these wine cars, but I seem to remember that some
went to some of the alcohol manufacturers. I'm just not certain why one
would use insulated cars for alcohol.



Larry Sexton



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
spsalso
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 12:54 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: OMI two dome tank car





"A more likely cargo would have been to carry transformer oils (contain
PCP)when the utilities were having to get rid of them and use more benign
fluids."

This tank car must have been built way before utilities "had to get rid of
them" (although it could have been used for exactly that purpose in later
years, I suppose).

Also, note that the car was insulated. If it brought in fuel for generators,
would that have needed an insulated tank? I see on the end of the tank what
looks like hookups for heating coils, too. I also suspect that the car was
for outbound service; as I would think that for an inbound direction, the
supplier would supply the car. But......

If this car were freelanced into wine service, the use of the heating coils
doesn't bode well for the quality of the wine.

Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: OMI two dome tank car

spsalso
 

"A more likely cargo would have been to carry transformer oils (contain
PCP)when the utilities were having to get rid of them and use more benign
fluids."

This tank car must have been built way before utilities "had to get rid of them" (although it could have been used for exactly that purpose in later years, I suppose).

Also, note that the car was insulated. If it brought in fuel for generators, would that have needed an insulated tank? I see on the end of the tank what looks like hookups for heating coils, too. I also suspect that the car was for outbound service; as I would think that for an inbound direction, the supplier would supply the car. But......

If this car were freelanced into wine service, the use of the heating coils doesn't bode well for the quality of the wine.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: OMI two dome tank car

Bruce Smith
 

On Jun 23, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Larry Sexton wrote:

If the tankcar was owned by a utility, the chances are good that it
could
have been used to haul or store diesel fuel for an emergency back-
up diesel.
A more likely cargo would have been to carry transformer oils (contain
PCP)when the utilities were having to get rid of them and use more
benign
fluids.
Larry, folks,

But this cargo would not require an insulated car, right? I suppose
it is possible that they picked up the car cheap and did not care
that it was insulated (I certainly plan to have some insulated cars
carrying crude oil in my WWII tank car trains).

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ \
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: OMI two dome tank car

Larry Sexton
 

If the tankcar was owned by a utility, the chances are good that it could
have been used to haul or store diesel fuel for an emergency back-up diesel.
A more likely cargo would have been to carry transformer oils (contain
PCP)when the utilities were having to get rid of them and use more benign
fluids.



A friend and I once found a large electrical transformer in the middle of an
orange groove in central Florida. The metal tag indicated it came from the
Commonwealth Electrical Company in Illinois. Since it was leaking oil, we
notified the EPA and it became a superfund clean-up site. This was the large
type transformer that usually requires a six axle depressed flatcar to
haul. As far as I know, while there was a great deal of speculation, no one
ever proved how it arrived in the orange groove.



Larry Sexon



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Miller
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:35 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: OMI two dome tank car





On 6/23/2011 8:15 AM, spsalso wrote:
And there's a bit of curiosity about why a utility company would have a
car like this (or 8 of them???). Was it load in or load out?
Fuel oil generator?????

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: OMI two dome tank car

Drew M.
 

What does Lumpy Chocolate consider foreplay? Eating a bag of chips while watching Seinfeld?


 


________________________________
From: Jon Miller <atsf@izap.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: OMI two dome tank car


 
On 6/23/2011 8:15 AM, spsalso wrote:
And there's a bit of curiosity about why a utility company would have a car like this (or 8 of them???). Was it load in or load out?
Fuel oil generator?????

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: OMI two dome tank car

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

On 6/23/2011 8:15 AM, spsalso wrote:
And there's a bit of curiosity about why a utility company would have a car like this (or 8 of them???). Was it load in or load out?
Fuel oil generator?????

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: OMI two dome tank car

spsalso
 

Neither the company nor the reporting mark is listed in my January 1939 ORER (nor in others of mine, from 1926 to 1960), but Northern Indiana dot-dot-dot does show up after the end of the world (1960) in my 1965 ORER, apparently with several hundred coal gons.

I have found cars with reporting marks that don't show up in the ORER before. I suppose that inclusion in the ORER is/was voluntary and perhaps even involved giving money to the publisher. Maybe perhaps.

I sure do wonder when the ad photo was taken. And where. 'Cause the car existed, even if the ORER says it didn't.

And there's a bit of curiosity about why a utility company would have a car like this (or 8 of them???). Was it load in or load out?

Thank you all for moving this project of mine forward. With the ad photo, I can pretty much figure out the "good-enough-for-me" lettering (though I guess the color might be either white or yellow--there's a puzzle) and the tank color (with the lack of graphic enthusiasm exhibited by the owner, I'm going with black).

Also looming (perhaps) is the possibility that an NIPX tank car would never roll over the rails in my modeling locale. Tony's suggestion of a wine tank car might lead me down the (possibly horrendous) freelance route. The car's next owner might be happy that paint strips easily off of a metal model.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


B&O High Car Specials Re: Pennsy Round-roof design issue

John King
 

Regarding Sand Patch Tunnel. A good reason for not finding the "North Portal" may be that the direction is east-west. The east portal required a long walk even if you knew where the access roads were.

With that bit of trivia out of the way, I think the clearance problem was on the St. Louis line between Grafton and Parkersburg. The 1947 B&O Freight Working Book had the High Car Section of train 97 going west from Cumberland via Sand Patch to Pittsburgh and then to Benwood (near Wheeling) and to Newark where it was consolidated with 197 to East St. Louis. In 1951 The High Car Section of 97 operated from Cumberland to Willard (again by way of Sand Patch and Pittsburgh)and then to Newark, Cincinatti and East St. Louis.

John King

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Richard Hendrickson notes:

Probably the last holdout was the B&O, which dealt with the
tunnel clearance problems on its mainline Sand Patch grade by running
"high car specials" via a longer alternative route through Pittsburgh.
Not so. The real reason is that, on the Sand Patch grade, the tunnel near
Manila has only one entrance. I know because back in 1981 on the day before
ex C&O 614 was to take a train up that grade I went searching for the
northern entrance and it wasn't there. I have always been puzzled about
that, how trains surmounted that ridge...entering the southern tunnel
portal...which I did find...to later appear much farther north. The B&O was
tricky.

Mike Brock

Oh, Mike, that is SO obvious!! You went looking for the northern
"entrance." For that 614 run, there WAS no northern "entrance." It was an
EXIT!!!



Geez, do we have to explain EVERYthing?

SGL





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: OMI two dome tank car

Ian Cranstone
 

On 2011-06-22, at 11:56 PM, al_brown03 wrote:

Ian Cranstone's compilation of reporting marks ascribes NIPX to the Northern Indiana Public Service Company, as of 7/1932.
I'll add that this reporting mark was not listed in either the 7/1930 or 7/1935 issues However, it should be noted that full listings of reporting marks in the ORER did not occur until 7/1937, and prior to that only fleets actually listed in the ORER appeared.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@nakina.net
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: OMI two dome tank car

al_brown03
 

Ian Cranstone's compilation of reporting marks ascribes NIPX to the Northern Indiana Public Service Company, as of 7/1932.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

This photo appears on the back covers of Model Railroading and the NMRA
Bulletin, for July 1990. I could convince myself, though the reproduction isn't good, that the reweigh date is either 7/37 or 7/57. The reporting marks NIPX aren't listed in the ORER for either 1/43 or 1/53.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "brianleppert@" <brianleppert@> wrote:




Overland's ad for this tank car included a prototype photo by H. A. Garritsen of NIPX #8. The ad was on the back cover of a magazine which I photocopied. Unfortunately, I don't remember which mag, but was maybe Rail Model Journal. From the mailing label, looks like it was the February, 1993 issue.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: OMI two dome tank car

al_brown03
 

This photo appears on the back covers of Model Railroading and the NMRA
Bulletin, for July 1990. I could convince myself, though the reproduction isn't good, that the reweigh date is either 7/37 or 7/57. The reporting marks NIPX aren't listed in the ORER for either 1/43 or 1/53.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "brianleppert@..." <brianleppert@...> wrote:




Overland's ad for this tank car included a prototype photo by H. A. Garritsen of NIPX #8. The ad was on the back cover of a magazine which I photocopied. Unfortunately, I don't remember which mag, but was maybe Rail Model Journal. From the mailing label, looks like it was the February, 1993 issue.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Trucks for Sunshine Kits

tmolsen@...
 

You may also look into Brian Leppert's Tahoe Model Works trucks which can be used with many of Martin's kits. Brian's trucks are much more accurate than many of those trucks which are on the market.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Re: Pennsy Round-roof design issue

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Schuyler says:

Oh, Mike, that is SO obvious!! You went looking for the northern
"entrance." For that 614 run, there WAS no northern "entrance." It was an
EXIT!!!
Damn.

Mike Brock


Re: Pennsy Round-roof design issue

CJ Riley
 

That's funny Mike. When I was there in for the 614 in '81, I found the north entrance, but not the south. Maybe there are 2 single ended tunnels?

CJ Riley

Bainbridge Island WA

---


Re: OMI two dome tank car

brianleppert@att.net
 

Overland's ad for this tank car included a prototype photo by H. A. Garritsen of NIPX #8. The ad was on the back cover of a magazine which I photocopied. Unfortunately, I don't remember which mag, but was maybe Rail Model Journal. From the mailing label, looks like it was the February, 1993 issue.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Pennsy Round-roof design issue

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Richard Hendrickson notes:

Probably the last holdout was the B&O, which dealt with the
tunnel clearance problems on its mainline Sand Patch grade by running
"high car specials" via a longer alternative route through Pittsburgh.
Not so. The real reason is that, on the Sand Patch grade, the tunnel near
Manila has only one entrance. I know because back in 1981 on the day before
ex C&O 614 was to take a train up that grade I went searching for the
northern entrance and it wasn't there. I have always been puzzled about
that, how trains surmounted that ridge...entering the southern tunnel
portal...which I did find...to later appear much farther north. The B&O was
tricky.

Mike Brock

Oh, Mike, that is SO obvious!! You went looking for the northern
"entrance." For that 614 run, there WAS no northern "entrance." It was an
EXIT!!!



Geez, do we have to explain EVERYthing?

SGL





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=======


Re: OMI two dome tank car

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ed Sutorik wrote:
The subject of this model last came up, as far as I can find out, on this list back in '04. I thought I would myself submit it again.
The model is OMI-3230, described on the box as GATC 10,000 Gal. Tank Car, Insulated, Double Dome Built 1930.
Could conceivably have been in wine service, except the compartments are really too big.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: OMI two dome tank car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 22, 2011, at 3:35 PM, spsalso wrote:

The subject of this model last came up, as far as I can find out,
on this list back in '04. I thought I would myself submit it again.
The discussion in '04 was pretty much wrapped up by this comment by
Mr. Hendrickson:

"Ted, the prototype for this model was a car that Tom Marsh found
intact but
out of service in the Chicago area. Its last owner had been a private
shipper (a chemical co., IIRC) which didn't exist during the era
this list
covers, so the car was obviously second-hand. I've never seen a
photo of a
car of this design in revenue service. 10,000 gal. two-compartment
tank
cars were extremely rare, whether insulated or not."

So, 7 years later, I'm wondering if there's any more info on this
car. Or a photo (even if it is post-list).
Edward Sutorik
Ed, Since my '04 message, I've seen no additional information or
photos on an in-service prototype for this model. Sorry!

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Pennsy Round-roof design issue

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson notes:

Probably the last holdout was the B&O, which dealt with the
tunnel clearance problems on its mainline Sand Patch grade by running
"high car specials" via a longer alternative route through Pittsburgh.
Not so. The real reason is that, on the Sand Patch grade, the tunnel near Manila has only one entrance. I know because back in 1981 on the day before ex C&O 614 was to take a train up that grade I went searching for the northern entrance and it wasn't there. I have always been puzzled about that, how trains surmounted that ridge...entering the southern tunnel portal...which I did find...to later appear much farther north. The B&O was tricky.

Mike Brock


Re: Trucks for Sunshine Kits

Bruce Smith
 

In addition, there are often more accurate choices than those Martin
supplied with his kits. I've found this list to be an outstanding
source of information on the correct trucks to use.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"Brian Carlson" replied:
Yes, but many of their trucks are 3rd party trucks you can get quicker
from
the actual manufacturer.
Carl asked:
Pardon the perhaps basic question. Can the trucks listed with
most/many
Sunshine kits be ordered from Sunshine without also ordering the
kit(s)?
Like many folks, I've got a backlog of Sunshine kits to build, but
fewer
with trucks than without. Best Wishes--CARL. Carl G. Camann. Atlanta,
GA

82641 - 82660 of 183576