Date   

Re: Branchline reefers and insulated boxcars

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

Hi Bill

Actually i was refering to the Gren Bay Route affiliated "Western Refigerator" company, which did also have some sort of affiation with NWX too.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 3/29/01, at 3:15 PM, Bill Schneider wrote:

Hi Bill, :>)

If by "Western Refigerator" you mane the NWX cars, we are doing three
versions. # 1215 is the 1925-39 scheme, #1216 is the 1940's scheme
(slightly different data arrangement), and #1217 is the post-52 yellow &
green.

As far as the RBL's go, there are a few that would be correct for your
era.... on the General American cars #1801 GARX (1954), 1804 GARX/T&P
1804 (3-55), QA&P (7-55), and 1810 GARX/C&NW (7-55). On the standard
cars #1706 ART (MODX) and #1714 UP (6-55) should work. Of course, NONE
of these work on my Sept 1953 layout... :>(

RMJ did do a series of articles in 1990 that covered these cars, but it
would be great if they ran an updated version. That way they can dig up
all the information that I couldn't find and show us what we did wrong....

BTW, all the plug doors are available. The reefers are being molded and
printed as we speak (?).

Bill don't-ask-me-about-passenger-cars Schneider
Branchline Trains

Bill Welch wrote:

Thanks to Al Westerfield, I have probably all of the ACF reefers I
will want, except maybe the Western Refrigerator version offered by
Branchline. The scheme they show on their web page looks to me like it
is the "as delivered" one. I don't seem to have any post WWII
in-service photos of these cars. Can anyone tell me the date of the
scheme branchline is using. I do have a set of the old Champ decals,
but come to think of it I don't know if it an early or late scheme.

Regarding their 50 foot insulated boxcars, I think most of these are
too late for me (after October 1955), but in one of their displays
somewhere, San Jose maybe, it looked like models they had painted up
of the QA&P and ART examples may have been as early as 1955. Can
anyone enlighten me as to the date of the earlist of these cars. I
thought maybe RMJ would do an article to educate us but it does not
seem to be happening.


Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
[Click for Details]
Click for Details
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=168002.1377235.2965144.2/D=egroupmail/S=1700169725:N/A=624147/*http://mojofarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039-2?bn=MaximusDVD468>


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399


Scale Sized Couplers

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Like several others, I have the Proto:HO Accumate couplers for testing. While I wanted to try them in different environments before reporting back, I think I'll go ahead and comment.

First, regarding sizes:

One thing that needs to be understood is that real couplers were not all the same size and even shape. However, every knuckle I have seen in the '53 Frt Car Cyc drawings shows a height of 11". From here the sizes vary, but just looking at the type E coupler, the height of the body is about 17". The width at the widest point is about 16" and the width across the knuckle area is about 14.4".

Here's how the Kadee 58 and Proto Accumate compare to the Type E:

Knuckle Height:

Kadee: 12" Accumate: 12" Type E: 11"

Width at Knuckle:

Kadee: 14" Accumate: 13+" Type E: 14.4"

Height of Body:

Kadee: 15" Accumate: 14" Type E: 17"

Extreme Width:

Kadee: 18" Accumate: 18" Type E: 16"

The dimensions are fairly close. Real coupler shanks run from 5" to 8" or more. Both the Kadee and Accumate easily fall into this range being about 5". The lengths of shanks also appear to vary.

The one area in which the Accumate really stands out is the draft box. It's width is 18" whereas the Kadee...apparently using the standard Kadee box...is 24". Real boxes appear to be about 13" wide.

Appearance wise...and, yes, this is entirely subjective...I prefer the Accumate...because it has no visible spring, the shape from the side appears prototypical and Dennis sent me free couplers. Actually, both couplers are real plusses for the prototype modeler. If the Accumate spinging mech holds up I will tend to go with it because of its appearance and the lack of a spring to fall out...plus the much better appearing draft box. Now, the proof of the puddin' is in the eatin'. If one of these couplers fails...sending a long string of N&W hoppers down Sherman Hill out of control into Laramie at 80 mph or so...everyone will hear about it because...as everyone knows...N&W hoppers never made it to Laramie.

Mike Brock


Re: Freight Cars in Action - USRA DS Boxcars

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Richard wrote, regarding Ben's files:
I've never found that I needed anything more sophisticated than Filemaker
Pro 2.1, which dates back to 1994. Do you suppose it would enable me to
work with Ben's files? My very limited past expereience in such matters
tells me that, even when you can open spreadsheet files, the formatting
gets all screwed up.

Ben hasn't commented on this yet, but it's certainly true that the bells and
whistles tend to disappear when you save a data file in one of the universal
formats, like <.CSV>. On the other hand, setting fonts, column widths and
row heights, word wrapping, etc., are basic operations which have to be done
when opening a data file in anything but its native format.

All this is moot until/unless Ben posts his file in <.CSV> or <.SLK>.

Tom


Re: Freight Cars in Action - USRA DS Boxcars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Richard wrote:
If Ben's files are in Excel, I couldn't open them anyway. Contrary to the
impression many computer users seem to have, Microsoft does not rule the
world and some of us (especially Mac loyalists) avoid MS software when
possible (e.g., I think MS Word is an awkward and excessively complicated
word processing program and never use it except when transferring files to
those who do). My preference would be to have Ben's files on a web site
that I can access with Netscape Navigator.

Well, it _is_ a spreadsheet so you wouldn't be able to manipulate it if it
was presented strictly as an HTML file. My Pullman spreadsheets are
available in three formats: EXCEL97, comma-delimited for all other
spreadsheet or database applications, and SYLK for AppleWorks users. I
uploaded them to the files portion of our family web page, and put a notice
on the PCL showing links directly to the files. If you have a spreadsheet or
database application on your computer, one of those formats should load and
open directly in your application.
I've never found that I needed anything more sophisticated than Filemaker
Pro 2.1, which dates back to 1994. Do you suppose it would enable me to
work with Ben's files? My very limited past expereience in such matters
tells me that, even when you can open spreadsheet files, the formatting
gets all screwed up.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


P-S1 box cars

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I'm still having dialogue with Kadee on trying to get the M&StL P-S1
box cars on the market. I or they need slides or photos of the 50ft'ers.
It seems the one slide I sent them taken in the late 70's and the
stenciling diagrams are not enough.
I've read mention of a "freight cars" group. If someone could put me
in touch with them I might find help there. Also is there a source for
P-S photos? I've seen dozens of builders photos published.
I really appreciate the help I'm getting here,
Clark


Re: Decommisioning

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

Well, don't buy Amazon.com or anything.com. If we could get Aley off his
duff at Intel, I'd suggest that.
Hey, I resemble that remark! Just wait until the third quarter of this
year, when Intel releases the new Pentium V Processor (TM), which will
operate at very high speed, and include both DCC and PFM Sound interfaces.

Regards,

-Jeff

P.S. So I'm a day early. I don't think anyone was fooled.

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: PRR box cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

John Nehrich wrote:

But while we are on PRR box cars, didn't all the X29's with REA lettering
get express trucks?
No, in fact most of them kept their original trucks but got wrought steel
wheels and, in at least some cases, coil-elliptic springs.

And while I guess express box cars could travel in
regular trains, I'm guessing that would be uncommon - or would it be
common? - John
More common than you might think. When loaded, they almost always ran in
passenger or mail-express consists, but empty back-hauls were often in
freight trains, and sometimes they were loaded with non-express freight for
the return trip, which is why many express box cars had two sets of weight
data stenciled on them, one for express service and the other for freight
service.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


40ft ice reefer

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Jeff,
The museum at union IL west of Chicago has several cars like the one
you described. As I remember most are orange and black URTX (Milw?) with
regular doors. The only plug door I can remember was painted Oscar
Meyer.
Clark


Very interesting data

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

There are a couple of very interesting files on the M&StL mailing
list at Yahoogroups. One is a list of all cars set out for hotboxes
in 1948, 1949, and 1950 -- with identification of the cars and their
cargoes, if any!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mstl/files/Hotbox48.txt

If you can't access the file, can someone who can upload it to a
home page somewhere?

The other interesting file is a timeline of car of freight car
acquisitions from the 1800's to the end of the railroad!

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: PRR box cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Larry - No, that's not why I didn't mention the USRA cars. They were built
to the government's
standards, not the individual road's, and at times forced down the throat of
the railroads that got them.
The reason I'm asking doesn't concern them anyway. There are a number
of wood box cars lettered for the PRR (Con-Cor old time ventilated car, MDC,
IHC). Being able to state that any prototype PRR cars that were close would
still be wrong due to the door is a nice lump statement on our freight car
guides
(http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Kits/Kit-Guide.html)
- John

PS - I think I already asked this group this question, but meant this to go
to the early rails group.

But while we are on PRR box cars, didn't all the X29's with REA lettering
get express trucks? And while I guess express box cars could travel in
regular trains, I'm guessing that would be uncommon - or would it be
common? - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry King" <ab8180@wayne.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PRR box cars


At 12:41 PM 3/30/2001 -0500, you wrote:
I was looking at some early PRR box cars and it appears that all their
box
cars prior to their
X29's had left-ward opening doors. Can anyone confirm this or does
anyone
know any exceptions? - John
Don't forget the 9900 X-26 USRA SS boxcars with doors opening to the
right- I suppose only on the PRR would a group of nearly 10,000 cars be
thought of as "non-standard"!!!
L.R. King


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: PRR box cars

Larry King <ab8180@...>
 

At 12:41 PM 3/30/2001 -0500, you wrote:
I was looking at some early PRR box cars and it appears that all their box
cars prior to their
X29's had left-ward opening doors. Can anyone confirm this or does anyone
know any exceptions? - John
Don't forget the 9900 X-26 USRA SS boxcars with doors opening to the
right- I suppose only on the PRR would a group of nearly 10,000 cars be
thought of as "non-standard"!!!
L.R. King


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



PRR box cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I was looking at some early PRR box cars and it appears that all their box
cars prior to their
X29's had left-ward opening doors. Can anyone confirm this or does anyone
know any exceptions? - John


Vintage Freight Car Sighting

Jeff English
 

Seen at the NYS&W engine house in Binghamton, NY: a
vintage refrigerator car with reporting marks CACV 24007. This car
is a 40-ft ice reefer with plug doors, Dartnaught ends (didn't we
agree on a more formal name for these) and horizontal-seam side
sheathing.
The Barber S-2 trucks have "GATX 4-50" cast into all four of
them, and underneath the garish CACV paint it is apparent that the
car's original color was orange (on the sides at least) and the
original number was 24007. I couldn't make out the original
reporting marks anywhere on the car, and I wanted to believe it was
URTX but what was there led me to think it wasn't that. Anybody
have information about GATC-built reefers in 1950 in a 24000-series
and fitting this description?
I, for one, think this car belongs in a museum.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@rpi.edu

| R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D |
Route of the Whippet
---------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Vintage Freight Car Sighting

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Dartnaught ends (didn't we agree on a more formal name for these)
I think Ed Hawkins suggested Car Builders ends?


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Branchline reefers and insulated boxcars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Regarding their 50 foot insulated boxcars, I think most of these
are too late for me (after October 1955), but in one of their
displays somewhere, San Jose maybe, it looked like models they
had painted up of the QA&P and ART examples may have been as early
as 1955. Can anyone enlighten me as to the date of the earliest of
these cars.
50' RBL's MODX 2000-2099 were built in 1955 by PC&F

There were some WADX 40 foot cars built in 1955 too. They
could easily be modeled from the future 40 foot Branchline
kits.

Don't know about the Quanah cars. The only photos I've seen
are from the 1960's.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Tanks et al

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Tom Madden wrote

Or resin. I'm finding this thread increasingly frustrating, because if
someone on this list has the ability to make just one really good riveted
tank, the "availability" problem for that design (at least for the members
of this list) goes away.
I agree in principle... but let's just say I have yet to see a complete
resin tank car kit that is the equal of (take your pick) Gould's, Precision
Scale's, Intermountain's, or Proto2000's, plastic kits. Maybe a resin tank
with a good injected molded underframe?

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Vintage Freight Car Sighting

Richard Hendrickson
 

Seen at the NYS&W engine house in Binghamton, NY: a
vintage refrigerator car with reporting marks CACV 24007. This car
is a 40-ft ice reefer with plug doors, Dartnaught ends (didn't we
agree on a more formal name for these) and horizontal-seam side
sheathing.
The Barber S-2 trucks have "GATX 4-50" cast into all four of
them, and underneath the garish CACV paint it is apparent that the
car's original color was orange (on the sides at least) and the
original number was 24007. I couldn't make out the original
reporting marks anywhere on the car, and I wanted to believe it was
URTX but what was there led me to think it wasn't that. Anybody
have information about GATC-built reefers in 1950 in a 24000-series
and fitting this description?
I, for one, think this car belongs in a museum.
A forty foot reefer with four trucks certainly does belong in a museum,
Jeff, if not in a freak show.

Seriously, based on the physical description of the car and the date on the
truck side frames, it's got to be one of the steel reefers built by GATC in
1950 for URTX. The number isn't an as-built number. However, by the early
1960s a bunch of these cars had been fitted with 6' plug doors in place of
their original 4' leaf doors and renumbered. For an example, see the photo
of URTX 38041 on p. 25 of the Henderson "Classic Freight Cars" Vol. 3
reefer book. According to my 1/62 ORER, the dimensions of the URTX
24000-24999 series were exactly the same as those of the 38000-38099
series, so I'll bet the car was originally URTX 24007.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Tanks et al

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Bill W. wrote:
...we should be helping and teaching each other rather than trying to
get the attention of people who do not share our vision or passion!
Bingo!! We should also not let ourselves be trapped by the attitude "If I
can't do it perfectly, I won't do it at all". My method for building masters
is to construct a part up to the point where: 1) I've got several hours
invested; and 2) the next step risks ruining the part if something goes
wrong. At that point I'll make a zero-shrink mold and cast several resin
parts, and work with those. If I screw one up, no big deal. If anyone on
this list wants to try that procedure I'll be glad to do the interim
casting, just to get SOMETHING going! (I work with free-standing parts and
closed molds rather than flat, open-face molds. That eliminates the
thickness build-up you get from multi-generational flat casting.)

Tom


Re: Branchline reefers and insulated boxcars

Bill Schneider <branch@...>
 

Hi Bill, :>)

If by "Western Refigerator" you mane the NWX cars, we are doing three
versions. # 1215 is the 1925-39 scheme, #1216 is the 1940's scheme
(slightly different data arrangement), and #1217 is the post-52 yellow &
green.

As far as the RBL's go, there are a few that would be correct for your
era.... on the General American cars #1801 GARX (1954), 1804 GARX/T&P
1804 (3-55), QA&P (7-55), and 1810 GARX/C&NW (7-55). On the standard
cars #1706 ART (MODX) and #1714 UP (6-55) should work. Of course, NONE
of these work on my Sept 1953 layout... :>(

RMJ did do a series of articles in 1990 that covered these cars, but it
would be great if they ran an updated version. That way they can dig up
all the information that I couldn't find and show us what we did wrong....

BTW, all the plug doors are available. The reefers are being molded and
printed as we speak (?).

Bill don't-ask-me-about-passenger-cars Schneider
Branchline Trains

Bill Welch wrote:

Thanks to Al Westerfield, I have probably all of the ACF reefers I
will want, except maybe the Western Refrigerator version offered by
Branchline. The scheme they show on their web page looks to me like it
is the "as delivered" one. I don't seem to have any post WWII
in-service photos of these cars. Can anyone tell me the date of the
scheme branchline is using. I do have a set of the old Champ decals,
but come to think of it I don't know if it an early or late scheme.

Regarding their 50 foot insulated boxcars, I think most of these are
too late for me (after October 1955), but in one of their displays
somewhere, San Jose maybe, it looked like models they had painted up
of the QA&P and ART examples may have been as early as 1955. Can
anyone enlighten me as to the date of the earlist of these cars. I
thought maybe RMJ would do an article to educate us but it does not
seem to be happening.


Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
[Click for Details]
Click for Details
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=168002.1377235.2965144.2/D=egroupmail/S=1700169725:N/A=624147/*http://mojofarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039-2?bn=MaximusDVD468>


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


Re: Tanks et al

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Shawn Beckert wrote:
As a tank car enthusiast almost as much as Richard H.,
but without his vast knowledge, I've been following this
conversation with great interest. What I've gathered from
this is that the problem isn't so much the tank itself as
it is coming up with a suitable underframe. Even in my
ignorance it seems to me that a tank, rivets or not, should
not be a problem for the more notorious members of this
list. Fabricating an underframe might be another story. I'm
thinking that if someone (there's that word again) could
design underframe parts that could be interchangeable as far
as different lengths or even width, that might go a long way
towards creating the ability to 'bash different car designs.
To paraphrase: "If you make the frame, the tanks will follow".

I'm sensing just the opposite. There are lots of underframe parts out there,
and I don't think too many of us would blanch at the thought of hacking
together a suitable underframe - if only we had the conical-riveted tanks of
assorted sizes. It's a daunting project to shave those rivets off of IM tank
bodies and then place them precisely onto a different body, but the nice
thing about masters is it only has to be done right one time. So it takes
you 3X or 4X the time a "good enough" model does - you can have 2, or 10, or
50 for the same effort. (Better yet, _I_ can have some too, because I'll do
the casting if Al or Martin won't.)

Tom

186841 - 186860 of 187868