sources of data
Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
Joel - Forgive me if I seem harsh, but photos of wood rolling stock are everywhere. I issued a DVD of hundreds of them among the 1,900 or so photos on my American Car & Foundry disk covering 1899-1925. The Sante Fe and Southern Pacific are covered in detail by numerous books. The Pennsy society magazine has covered almost all wooden classes over the years. Most railroad historical societies have similar publications and many offer blueprints for sale. More and more city and state historical societies are digitizing their collections. Quite a number of links have been given here lately that cover insurance damage photos, some covering wooden cars. Example: one B&M box car that crashed under an elevated transit line. Professional photo dealers (see list published by Jack Burgess) have hundreds of such photos. I could go on but you get the idea. - Al Westerfield
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----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Holmes To: Andy Harman ; STMFC@yahoogroups.com ; cjriley42@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] ADMIN: NMRA Contest Thread Termination Hi Andy, CJ & Others, Please forgive me for not replying sooner. There are more things to do than just sit in front of a computer all day. I have a large yard and garden which need a lot of attention as well as some modeling, work and other things. Model railroading is in the mind of the person doing the modeling. To look down our noses at someone we consider as doing inferior work (modeling that does not fit our prospective) is hurting the hobby. I have for many years attempted to do my modeling along the prototype lines. I do have a few fantasy cars, or cars that do the job for me. I am going to disagree with much of the logic or comments put out on this thread. I fully expect to be totally trashed by my comets and will accept it. I am building a model railroad based on the 1912 to 1920 era. To be totally accurate I am building all sorts of wooden cars. There are no, and mean 0, wooden cars produced by manufactures that replicate the cars that I need to run on my layout. I must scratch build all of my wooden cars. Pictures are very few and very far between. Some decals are made by Art Griffin and some others, but many are not and I have to take decals from where ever I can mix to get the correct prototype lettering. Often, I do not even know what the lettering was like. Often, the only way I can build a car is to use the dimensions posted in my 1924 equipment guide and by using car building techniques of the day found in my 1906 car builders encyclopedia. There were cars still in service that were built before 1900. Under these circumstances with very little prototypical data, using your criteria, no matter how well built, or how close to actual car building practices of the 1880 to 1920 I use, the car could never be judged and receive a good score. To impose a harsh prototypical data requirement on judging I feel thwarts model building. Also, I could never run a prototypical model railroad using only a few of the car types in use during that time period. I have had several cars judged where the only data was a picture, and the data from the equipment guide, I received merit awards. Had I not had a picture and using your criteria, I probably would not have received merit awards for the models. To have as close as possible models for a period layout, we might as well forget getting good scores or even a master modelers designation? I also feel without judging and contests, the quality of modeling could suffer greatly. However, a limit could be imposed upon those who win every year. Joel Holmes > On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:36:35 -0500 (CDT), Joel Holmes wrote
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Re: Nomenclature - Boxcar or Box Car?
Walter M. Clark
Tik Tok from the Oz books.
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Time stopped in November 1941 Walter M. Clark Pullman, Washington, USA
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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Re: LCL c. 1952
rwitt_2000
Ben Hom wrote:
matter whatcars in captive service, and no interchanged foreign road cars were handled inB&O LCL trains? I find that very hard to believe.Ben, I don't see where I used "captive service" in my reply. I don't believe the B&O placed box cars in captive service. All the B&O cars I discussed were suitable for interchange service. All I was trying to state is that a B&O box car could have the "Sentinel Service" logo and also have a circle T stenciled on the car. I have several photos of B&O box cars with the "Sentinel Service" to right of the door and with a circle T to the left of the road number. I have other examples of B&O box cars with the "Time-Saver Service" logo, but without a circle T stencil. These logos were just advertising and the presence of circle T stencil indicated what cars were potentially suitable for LCL loading. I was discussing what B&O box cars were suitable for LCL loading not what cars were accepted in interchange. If a box car was contaminated and not suitable for LCL loading any longer I assume the circle T would be painted over, but I have no documentation about such instructions. I have no idea how the B&O decided what foreign road cars to load for LCL service while on B&O property. Bob Witt
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Re: New Intermountain Andrews Trucks?
Walter M. Clark
Ian Clasper has a trick to improve Accurail Andrews trucks at http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/articles/accuandrewsmain.html
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He carves off the cast on brake shoes and adds Kadee brake gear. I've also used it on other Accurail trucks and it sure improves the appearance. Time stopped in November 1941 Walter M. Clark Pullman, Washington, USA
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
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Terry Wegmann's Challenge
Andy Carlson
Many who are reading messages from this list have at least heard about Terry
Wegmann. Many small parts we have become accustomed to, and some various scale's models. Terry is 67 years old, and up to 8 weeks ago, lived quietly in his humble one-bedroom apartment in coastal Orange County, Southern California. 8 weeks ago, Terry was delivered to the Huntington Beach Hospital by ambulance where he was quickly placed on life-support and had a trachy device installed. After many surgeries, Terry was facing near-certain death because of Renal failure and Liver shut-down. Daily dialysis helped his body to recover, and though he has had many setbacks, he is slowly improving to where his physiscian thinks that Terry will survive this. He is still in the IC unit, and the earliest that his trach will be removed remains at least a week or longer. His problems started with a ruptered artery, which allowed 1/2 of his stomach to go necrotic. The toxins from that are what contributed to the systemic failures. Terry is now receiving dialysis once a week, and now just needs to recover enough to be placed in a skilled nursing center. His improvement is very modest, but still is improvement. Terry is now alert, and knows what happened and what he faces. He is reported to be very depressed, and I can certainly understand that. I believe that if anyone would benefit from the thoughts of others, such as expressed in simple letters, notes, or cards, Terry is one. Terry's address is Huntington Beach Hospital 17772 Beach Blvd Huntington Beach, CA 92647 714 843 5000 Thanks very much for listening... -Andy Carlson
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Re: FGE Book
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Any word on when this book will be coming out?The author is still working on the FGE book, as far as I know, and he has not even decided whether to submit it to us, so I certainly have no idea of when it will be published. I do hope it comes to us. We have had some glitches on the MDT book, which I had hoped to print in the spring, but it's nearly ready now to go the printer. It will certainly be published in the fall, but until we have printer's schedules, we won't know anything more specific than that. Whenever we have a definite availability date, it will be on our website right away, but that will be fairly close to the publication date. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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FGE Book
bill_d_goat
Any word on when this book will be coming out?
Karen's books also still has no word on the merchant's Dispatch book. Any word on that one. Bill Williams
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Re: Colour match for the Rutland
Armand Premo
Wet yet?
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----- Original Message -----
From: Armand Premo To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Colour match for the Rutland More hot air than steam IMHO.Armand Premo ----- Original Message ----- From: PennsyNut To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Colour match for the Rutland On 15,07 2011 7:30 AM, Pierre wrote: > > Thanks, Marty. > A quick look at the paint rack suggests Scalecoat Boxcar Red #2. > I've always wondered when America decided to shed the "u" in many > words. Armour, honour, colour, etc. But I digress... > Pierre Oliver > You say po tay toe, I say po tah toe, etc. I agree with Pierre, we American's have had a hay day with English. Petrol became gas! Bonnet became hood! bunches of stuff. Digression is fun -- sometimes. LOL And thanks to our moderator for shutting off the NMRA, Conventions, etc. I kept wondering what that all has to do with steam. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist SPF PRRTHS #1204 ---------------------------------------------------------- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.891 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3235 - Release Date: 11/03/10 04:36:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.891 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3235 - Release Date: 11/03/10 04:36:00
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Re: Colour match for the Rutland
Rossiter, Mark W <Mark.Rossiter@...>
The "Remembering the Rutland" website has a Q&A section that contains
several postings regarding recommended passenger car, freight car and caboose colors. http://users.rcn.com/jimdu4/Q&A/q&a.htm There are a number of color books on the Rutland that allow you to make your own judgment based on the era you are modeling. The topic of "what is the correct color of Pullman Green?" could generate a thousand responses alone. Bob's Photo has a ton of color pictures available for sale also, although many of his are of the later yellow and green scheme of the 50's than from earlier eras. Do an internet search and you are sure to stumble across some of the Fallen Flags photo hosting sites. - - Mark
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Re: ADMIN: NMRA Contest Thread Termination
Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
Hi Andy, CJ & Others,
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Please forgive me for not replying sooner. There are more things to do than just sit in front of a computer all day. I have a large yard and garden which need a lot of attention as well as some modeling, work and other things. Model railroading is in the mind of the person doing the modeling. To look down our noses at someone we consider as doing inferior work (modeling that does not fit our prospective) is hurting the hobby. I have for many years attempted to do my modeling along the prototype lines. I do have a few fantasy cars, or cars that do the job for me. I am going to disagree with much of the logic or comments put out on this thread. I fully expect to be totally trashed by my comets and will accept it. I am building a model railroad based on the 1912 to 1920 era. To be totally accurate I am building all sorts of wooden cars. There are no, and mean 0, wooden cars produced by manufactures that replicate the cars that I need to run on my layout. I must scratch build all of my wooden cars. Pictures are very few and very far between. Some decals are made by Art Griffin and some others, but many are not and I have to take decals from where ever I can mix to get the correct prototype lettering. Often, I do not even know what the lettering was like. Often, the only way I can build a car is to use the dimensions posted in my 1924 equipment guide and by using car building techniques of the day found in my 1906 car builders encyclopedia. There were cars still in service that were built before 1900. Under these circumstances with very little prototypical data, using your criteria, no matter how well built, or how close to actual car building practices of the 1880 to 1920 I use, the car could never be judged and receive a good score. To impose a harsh prototypical data requirement on judging I feel thwarts model building. Also, I could never run a prototypical model railroad using only a few of the car types in use during that time period. I have had several cars judged where the only data was a picture, and the data from the equipment guide, I received merit awards. Had I not had a picture and using your criteria, I probably would not have received merit awards for the models. To have as close as possible models for a period layout, we might as well forget getting good scores or even a master modelers designation? I also feel without judging and contests, the quality of modeling could suffer greatly. However, a limit could be imposed upon those who win every year. Joel Holmes
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:36:35 -0500 (CDT), Joel Holmes wroteNo Quite,Why?
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Re: Colour match for the Rutland
Armand Premo
More hot air than steam IMHO.Armand Premo
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----- Original Message -----
From: PennsyNut To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Colour match for the Rutland On 15,07 2011 7:30 AM, Pierre wrote: > > Thanks, Marty. > A quick look at the paint rack suggests Scalecoat Boxcar Red #2. > I've always wondered when America decided to shed the "u" in many > words. Armour, honour, colour, etc. But I digress... > Pierre Oliver > You say po tay toe, I say po tah toe, etc. I agree with Pierre, we American's have had a hay day with English. Petrol became gas! Bonnet became hood! bunches of stuff. Digression is fun -- sometimes. LOL And thanks to our moderator for shutting off the NMRA, Conventions, etc. I kept wondering what that all has to do with steam. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist SPF PRRTHS #1204 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.891 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3235 - Release Date: 11/03/10 04:36:00
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Re: Colour match for the Rutland
Richard Hendrickson
On Jul 15, 2011, at 5:30 AM, Pierre wrote:
Thanks, Marty.Putting on one of my other hats, as a retired professor of English linguistics I can tell you that Americans dropped the "u" in colour, labour, etc. owing almost entirely to the efforts of Noah Webster, whose spelling books predominated in U. S. schools for several generations. Webster, caught in the post-colonial American revolt against all things British, believed that American English had diverged far enough from British English to be considered a separate language with its own standards. That wasn't true, but it WAS true that American English had evolved into a number of regional dialects that were notably different from any of the dialects of British English, including what linguists call RSB (Received Standard British), the non-regional dialect of the upper classes and the upper class universities which became the standard for written English on both sides of the Atlantic. Webster wanted to completely reform American spelling, an effort which largely failed, but he did succeed in dropping the "u" in the spellings of "-our" words, changing "gaol" to "jail," and numerous other minor revisions which persist today. Thanks to Webster, though the clues are subtle, one can look at almost any book written in modern English and quickly determine whether it was published in the United States or in Great Britain or a Commonwealth country. Now, to drag a freight car topic in by the ears, why didn't the spelling change in the name of the Armour packing company? As you suggested in another post, Armour reefers still have the "u" in the name because it was a family name which the family chose not to change. Family names, understandably, tend to preserve obsolete spellings. Another example is the Morrell packing company, where the double "R" and double "L" survived, though the name of the mushroom species that's pronounced the same way is "morel." Many family names were already established well before English spelling began to be standardized in the 18th century. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: Rapido Meat Reefer
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
They look good, and I appreciate the date information. One question: Are all of these paint schemes legit? No offense, but I must ask, I have shelves of foobies/stand-ins already... I'm interested in the mid 1950's and later.THey are certainly legal relative to the 1934 ICC decision on billboard reefers, because the cars weren't built until 1937. Or do you mean "legal" in the colloquial sense, that is, are some of the paint schemes not appropriate for this car body? Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Rapido Meat Reefer
Bill Schneider
Tim,
Short answer - yes. All of these schemes are based on photos and are correct for GARX built meat reefers. Longer answer - the red Swift car should have a straight side sill and (according to Pat Wider's excellent article in RP Cyc 14) a 3" shorter door as it is based on the slightly earlier group of cars built by General American in 1937. I'll be adding some strip styrene to mine to fix the side sill discrepancy while cheerfully ignoring the door height! All of the other cars match the later group of cars with the standard underframe. Bill From: Tim O'Connor Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:20 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] Re: Rapido Meat Reefer Bill They look good, and I appreciate the date information. One question: Are all of these paint schemes legit? No offense, but I must ask, I have shelves of foobies/stand-ins already... I'm interested in the mid 1950's and later. Tim O'Connor At 7/15/2011 11:13 AM Friday, you wrote: Armand,
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you asked for y' all roads
jerryglow2
I just completed a set for a steel C&WC rebuild from a USRA DS car:
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/C&WC_rebuild.jpg For HO modelers, this is an rewarding kitbash of a Tichy kit w/ 5/5/5 ends substituted, Accurail fishbelly underframe, and scratchbuilt roof like the ACL and Frisco cars. Of course, it's available in all scales (I actually did it for an S-scale customer). -- Jerry Glow The Villages FL http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals/
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Re: Rapido Meat Reefer
Bill
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They look good, and I appreciate the date information. One question: Are all of these paint schemes legit? No offense, but I must ask, I have shelves of foobies/stand-ins already... I'm interested in the mid 1950's and later. Tim O'Connor
At 7/15/2011 11:13 AM Friday, you wrote:
Armand,
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Re: Colour match for the Rutland
PennsyNut <pennsynut@...>
On 15,07 2011 7:30 AM, Pierre wrote:
You say po tay toe, I say po tah toe, etc. I agree with Pierre, we American's have had a hay day with English. Petrol became gas! Bonnet became hood! bunches of stuff. Digression is fun -- sometimes. LOL And thanks to our moderator for shutting off the NMRA, Conventions, etc. I kept wondering what that all has to do with steam. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist SPF PRRTHS #1204
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Re: ADMIN: NMRA Contest Thread Termination
Dave Nelson
All deserved but 120+ messages with nothing about Steam Era Freight Cars is
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**120+ messages too many**. This topic shoudda been janked after just a couple of them and then nobodies sensibilities or bile on an off-topic thread would have been on display. Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joel Holmes I am horrified by some of the comments made about judging and contests.
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Re: How painting cars has changed over the years.
naptownprr
Thanks for sending that, Steve. Thank goodness for air brushes!
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Quoting Steve <stvvallee@yahoo.com>:
Dear Group...
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Re: Rapido Meat Reefer
Bill Schneider
Armand,
A complete listing of the first release schemes is on our web site at http://www.rapidotrains.com/reefer2.html, and yes, it does include both URTX and GARX plain schemes. Bill From: Armand Premo Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 10:44 AM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Rapido Meat Reefer Bill,Will there be a plain URTX? Armand Premo ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Schneider To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Rapido Meat Reefer "I have to say that the painted models look far better than the first batch we saw a while ago. Pierre Oliver" I’d have to agree with that...! The images of the "first batch" were in fact the very first test sample which arrived just before the Cocoa Beach meet. Because of the nature of the RPM meet I brought it along as a work in progress and explained to everybody there that this was an early sample with many revisions yet to be made. Most attendees understood and accepted this (well, all but one, but that's another story...). Unfortunately, as photos were posted on various news groups this explanation got lost. Such is the danger of sharing early samples! So, for clarity, there are still several revisions yet to be done to this latest sample, including adding several rivets, textures to the hatches, etc. Still, I think that all will agree that it is much improved and shows that we are committed to getting it right. Bill Schneider Rapido Trains ---------------------------------------------------------- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.891 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3235 - Release Date: 11/03/10 04:36:00
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