Date   

sources of data

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Joel - Forgive me if I seem harsh, but photos of wood rolling stock are everywhere. I issued a DVD of hundreds of them among the 1,900 or so photos on my American Car & Foundry disk covering 1899-1925. The Sante Fe and Southern Pacific are covered in detail by numerous books. The Pennsy society magazine has covered almost all wooden classes over the years. Most railroad historical societies have similar publications and many offer blueprints for sale. More and more city and state historical societies are digitizing their collections. Quite a number of links have been given here lately that cover insurance damage photos, some covering wooden cars. Example: one B&M box car that crashed under an elevated transit line. Professional photo dealers (see list published by Jack Burgess) have hundreds of such photos. I could go on but you get the idea. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Holmes
To: Andy Harman ; STMFC@yahoogroups.com ; cjriley42@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ADMIN: NMRA Contest Thread Termination



Hi Andy, CJ & Others,

Please forgive me for not replying sooner. There are more things to do
than just sit in front of a computer all day. I have a large yard and
garden which need a lot of attention as well as some modeling, work and
other things.

Model railroading is in the mind of the person doing the modeling. To
look down our noses at someone we consider as doing inferior work
(modeling that does not fit our prospective) is hurting the hobby.

I have for many years attempted to do my modeling along the prototype
lines. I do have a few fantasy cars, or cars that do the job for me. I
am going to disagree with much of the logic or comments put out on this
thread. I fully expect to be totally trashed by my comets and will accept
it.

I am building a model railroad based on the 1912 to 1920 era. To be
totally accurate I am building all sorts of wooden cars. There are no,
and mean 0, wooden cars produced by manufactures that replicate the cars
that I need to run on my layout. I must scratch build all of my wooden
cars. Pictures are very few and very far between. Some decals are made
by Art Griffin and some others, but many are not and I have to take decals
from where ever I can mix to get the correct prototype lettering. Often,
I do not even know what the lettering was like. Often, the only way I can
build a car is to use the dimensions posted in my 1924 equipment guide and
by using car building techniques of the day found in my 1906 car builders
encyclopedia. There were cars still in service that were built before
1900.

Under these circumstances with very little prototypical data, using your
criteria, no matter how well built, or how close to actual car building
practices of the 1880 to 1920 I use, the car could never be judged and
receive a good score. To impose a harsh prototypical data requirement on
judging I feel thwarts model building. Also, I could never run a
prototypical model railroad using only a few of the car types in use
during that time period.

I have had several cars judged where the only data was a picture, and the
data from the equipment guide, I received merit awards. Had I not had a
picture and using your criteria, I probably would not have received merit
awards for the models.

To have as close as possible models for a period layout, we might as well
forget getting good scores or even a master modelers designation?

I also feel without judging and contests, the quality of modeling could
suffer greatly. However, a limit could be imposed upon those who win
every year.

Joel Holmes

> On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:36:35 -0500 (CDT), Joel Holmes wrote


Re: Nomenclature - Boxcar or Box Car?

Walter M. Clark
 

Tik Tok from the Oz books.

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Mike Brock wrote

Un for tu nate ly I can re call the "dis cus sions" here re gard ing "so lid",
"plain", and "fric tion" jour nal bear ings. Rich ard led the charge to use the
more "pro per" term "plain" or "sol id" bear ing due to use in the pro to type
rail road me dia of our per i od.

Mikebrock,Iwasexperimentingwithseparationbetweensyllablesofeverywordasapossible
solutiontothisterminologicalconundrumbutthenIrealizedweprobablywouldnotallbeable
toagreeonwheretoputthesyllableboundaries.Yoursinparsinghell,TimO'Connor


Re: LCL c. 1952

rwitt_2000
 

Ben Hom wrote:

Bob Witt wrote:
"Only box cars with a circle T were suitable for Time-Saver Service no
matter
what
logo was stenciled on the car."

So you're telling us that Time-Saver Service consisted only of B&O
cars in
captive service, and no interchanged foreign road cars were handled in
B&O LCL
trains? I find that very hard to believe.
Ben,

I don't see where I used "captive service" in my reply. I don't believe
the B&O placed box cars in captive service. All the B&O cars I discussed
were suitable for interchange service.

All I was trying to state is that a B&O box car could have the "Sentinel
Service" logo and also have a circle T stenciled on the car. I have
several photos of B&O box cars with the "Sentinel Service" to right of
the door and with a circle T to the left of the road number. I have
other examples of B&O box cars with the "Time-Saver Service" logo, but
without a circle T stencil. These logos were just advertising and the
presence of circle T stencil indicated what cars were potentially
suitable for LCL loading.

I was discussing what B&O box cars were suitable for LCL loading not
what cars were accepted in interchange. If a box car was contaminated
and not suitable for LCL loading any longer I assume the circle T would
be painted over, but I have no documentation about such instructions. I
have no idea how the B&O decided what foreign road cars to load for LCL
service while on B&O property.

Bob Witt


Re: New Intermountain Andrews Trucks?

Walter M. Clark
 

Ian Clasper has a trick to improve Accurail Andrews trucks at http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/articles/accuandrewsmain.html
He carves off the cast on brake shoes and adds Kadee brake gear. I've also used it on other Accurail trucks and it sure improves the appearance.

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Jun 20, 2011, at 11:02 AM, John Golden wrote:

Gentlemen,

I've noticed that Intermountain is using what appears to be an
upgraded, much
finer Andrews truck on their recent HO scale models. Does anyone
know if these
trucks are Intermountain or some other brand, and would you know
where I could
obtain additional copies? Thanks.
John, the USRA Andrews trucks on my IM Santa Fe Caswell gondolas
appear to be made by or for them. They're similar but not the same
as Accurail's Andrews trucks. Both are very good; they have well
formed and detailed, and prototypically slender, side frames but the
brake shoes don't line up with the wheels and there is no brake
rigging. I happen to know that Brian Leppert at Tahoe Model Works is
making dies for a USRA Andrews truck even as I write, and though I
don't know when those trucks will be for sale, you might want to wait
for them, as they will be (as usual) superior to everyone else's
trucks of that type.

Richard Hendrickson





Terry Wegmann's Challenge

Andy Carlson
 

Many who are reading messages from this list have at least heard about Terry
Wegmann. Many small parts we have become accustomed to, and some various scale's
models. Terry is 67 years old, and up to 8 weeks ago, lived quietly in his
humble one-bedroom apartment in coastal Orange County, Southern California.

8 weeks ago, Terry was delivered to the Huntington Beach Hospital by ambulance
where he was quickly placed on life-support and had a trachy device installed.
After many surgeries, Terry was facing near-certain death because of Renal
failure and Liver shut-down. Daily dialysis helped his body to recover, and
though he has had many setbacks, he is slowly improving to where his physiscian
thinks that Terry will survive this. He is still in the IC unit, and the
earliest that his trach will be removed remains at least a week or longer.

His problems started with a ruptered artery, which allowed 1/2 of his stomach to
go necrotic. The toxins from that are what contributed to the systemic failures.
Terry is now receiving dialysis once a week, and now just needs to recover
enough to be placed in a skilled nursing center. His improvement is very modest,
but still is improvement.

Terry is now alert, and knows what happened and what he faces. He is reported to
be very depressed, and I can certainly understand that. I believe that if
anyone would benefit from the thoughts of others, such as expressed in simple
letters, notes, or cards, Terry is one.

Terry's address is

Huntington Beach Hospital
17772 Beach Blvd
Huntington Beach, CA 92647
714 843 5000

Thanks very much for listening...
-Andy Carlson


Re: FGE Book

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Any word on when this book will be coming out?
Karen's books also still has no word on the merchant's Dispatch book. Any word on that one.
The author is still working on the FGE book, as far as I know, and he has not even decided whether to submit it to us, so I certainly have no idea of when it will be published. I do hope it comes to us.
We have had some glitches on the MDT book, which I had hoped to print in the spring, but it's nearly ready now to go the printer. It will certainly be published in the fall, but until we have printer's schedules, we won't know anything more specific than that. Whenever we have a definite availability date, it will be on our website right away, but that will be fairly close to the publication date.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


FGE Book

bill_d_goat
 

Any word on when this book will be coming out?
Karen's books also still has no word on the merchant's Dispatch book. Any word on that one.
Bill Williams


Re: Colour match for the Rutland

Armand Premo
 

Wet yet?

----- Original Message -----
From: Armand Premo
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Colour match for the Rutland



More hot air than steam IMHO.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: PennsyNut
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Colour match for the Rutland

On 15,07 2011 7:30 AM, Pierre wrote:
>
> Thanks, Marty.
> A quick look at the paint rack suggests Scalecoat Boxcar Red #2.
> I've always wondered when America decided to shed the "u" in many
> words. Armour, honour, colour, etc. But I digress...
> Pierre Oliver
>
You say po tay toe, I say po tah toe, etc. I agree with Pierre, we
American's have had a hay day with English. Petrol became gas! Bonnet
became hood! bunches of stuff. Digression is fun -- sometimes. LOL
And thanks to our moderator for shutting off the NMRA, Conventions, etc.
I kept wondering what that all has to do with steam.
Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist SPF PRRTHS #1204



----------------------------------------------------------

Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.891 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3235 - Release Date: 11/03/10 04:36:00








------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: Colour match for the Rutland

Rossiter, Mark W <Mark.Rossiter@...>
 

The "Remembering the Rutland" website has a Q&A section that contains
several postings regarding recommended passenger car, freight car and
caboose colors.



http://users.rcn.com/jimdu4/Q&A/q&a.htm



There are a number of color books on the Rutland that allow you to make
your own judgment based on the era you are modeling. The topic of "what
is the correct color of Pullman Green?" could generate a thousand
responses alone.



Bob's Photo has a ton of color pictures available for sale also,
although many of his are of the later yellow and green scheme of the
50's than from earlier eras.



Do an internet search and you are sure to stumble across some of the
Fallen Flags photo hosting sites.



- - Mark


Re: ADMIN: NMRA Contest Thread Termination

Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

Hi Andy, CJ & Others,

Please forgive me for not replying sooner. There are more things to do
than just sit in front of a computer all day. I have a large yard and
garden which need a lot of attention as well as some modeling, work and
other things.

Model railroading is in the mind of the person doing the modeling. To
look down our noses at someone we consider as doing inferior work
(modeling that does not fit our prospective) is hurting the hobby.

I have for many years attempted to do my modeling along the prototype
lines. I do have a few fantasy cars, or cars that do the job for me. I
am going to disagree with much of the logic or comments put out on this
thread. I fully expect to be totally trashed by my comets and will accept
it.

I am building a model railroad based on the 1912 to 1920 era. To be
totally accurate I am building all sorts of wooden cars. There are no,
and mean 0, wooden cars produced by manufactures that replicate the cars
that I need to run on my layout. I must scratch build all of my wooden
cars. Pictures are very few and very far between. Some decals are made
by Art Griffin and some others, but many are not and I have to take decals
from where ever I can mix to get the correct prototype lettering. Often,
I do not even know what the lettering was like. Often, the only way I can
build a car is to use the dimensions posted in my 1924 equipment guide and
by using car building techniques of the day found in my 1906 car builders
encyclopedia. There were cars still in service that were built before
1900.

Under these circumstances with very little prototypical data, using your
criteria, no matter how well built, or how close to actual car building
practices of the 1880 to 1920 I use, the car could never be judged and
receive a good score. To impose a harsh prototypical data requirement on
judging I feel thwarts model building. Also, I could never run a
prototypical model railroad using only a few of the car types in use
during that time period.

I have had several cars judged where the only data was a picture, and the
data from the equipment guide, I received merit awards. Had I not had a
picture and using your criteria, I probably would not have received merit
awards for the models.

To have as close as possible models for a period layout, we might as well
forget getting good scores or even a master modelers designation?

I also feel without judging and contests, the quality of modeling could
suffer greatly. However, a limit could be imposed upon those who win
every year.

Joel Holmes

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:36:35 -0500 (CDT), Joel Holmes wrote
No Quite,
I am horrified by some of the comments made about judging and contests.
Why?
Andy


Re: Colour match for the Rutland

Armand Premo
 

More hot air than steam IMHO.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: PennsyNut
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Colour match for the Rutland



On 15,07 2011 7:30 AM, Pierre wrote:
>
> Thanks, Marty.
> A quick look at the paint rack suggests Scalecoat Boxcar Red #2.
> I've always wondered when America decided to shed the "u" in many
> words. Armour, honour, colour, etc. But I digress...
> Pierre Oliver
>
You say po tay toe, I say po tah toe, etc. I agree with Pierre, we
American's have had a hay day with English. Petrol became gas! Bonnet
became hood! bunches of stuff. Digression is fun -- sometimes. LOL
And thanks to our moderator for shutting off the NMRA, Conventions, etc.
I kept wondering what that all has to do with steam.
Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist SPF PRRTHS #1204








------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.891 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3235 - Release Date: 11/03/10 04:36:00


Re: Colour match for the Rutland

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 15, 2011, at 5:30 AM, Pierre wrote:

Thanks, Marty.
A quick look at the paint rack suggests Scalecoat Boxcar Red #2.
I've always wondered when America decided to shed the "u" in many
words. Armour, honour, colour, etc. But I digress...
Putting on one of my other hats, as a retired professor of English
linguistics I can tell you that Americans dropped the "u" in colour,
labour, etc. owing almost entirely to the efforts of Noah Webster,
whose spelling books predominated in U. S. schools for several
generations. Webster, caught in the post-colonial American revolt
against all things British, believed that American English had
diverged far enough from British English to be considered a separate
language with its own standards. That wasn't true, but it WAS true
that American English had evolved into a number of regional dialects
that were notably different from any of the dialects of British
English, including what linguists call RSB (Received Standard
British), the non-regional dialect of the upper classes and the upper
class universities which became the standard for written English on
both sides of the Atlantic. Webster wanted to completely reform
American spelling, an effort which largely failed, but he did succeed
in dropping the "u" in the spellings of "-our" words, changing "gaol"
to "jail," and numerous other minor revisions which persist today.
Thanks to Webster, though the clues are subtle, one can look at
almost any book written in modern English and quickly determine
whether it was published in the United States or in Great Britain or
a Commonwealth country.

Now, to drag a freight car topic in by the ears, why didn't the
spelling change in the name of the Armour packing company? As you
suggested in another post, Armour reefers still have the "u" in the
name because it was a family name which the family chose not to
change. Family names, understandably, tend to preserve obsolete
spellings. Another example is the Morrell packing company, where the
double "R" and double "L" survived, though the name of the mushroom
species that's pronounced the same way is "morel." Many family names
were already established well before English spelling began to be
standardized in the 18th century.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Rapido Meat Reefer

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
They look good, and I appreciate the date information. One question: Are all of these paint schemes legit? No offense, but I must ask, I have shelves of foobies/stand-ins already... I'm interested in the mid 1950's and later.
THey are certainly legal relative to the 1934 ICC decision on billboard reefers, because the cars weren't built until 1937. Or do you mean "legal" in the colloquial sense, that is, are some of the paint schemes not appropriate for this car body?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Rapido Meat Reefer

Bill Schneider
 

Tim,

Short answer - yes. All of these schemes are based on photos and are correct for GARX built meat reefers.

Longer answer - the red Swift car should have a straight side sill and (according to Pat Wider's excellent article in RP Cyc 14) a 3" shorter door as it is based on the slightly earlier group of cars built by General American in 1937. I'll be adding some strip styrene to mine to fix the side sill discrepancy while cheerfully ignoring the door height! All of the other cars match the later group of cars with the standard underframe.

Bill


From: Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:20 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Rapido Meat Reefer




Bill

They look good, and I appreciate the date information. One question:
Are all of these paint schemes legit? No offense, but I must ask, I
have shelves of foobies/stand-ins already... I'm interested in the
mid 1950's and later.

Tim O'Connor

At 7/15/2011 11:13 AM Friday, you wrote:
Armand,

A complete listing of the first release schemes is on our web site at
http://www.rapidotrains.com/reefer2.html, and yes, it does include both URTX
and GARX plain schemes.

Bill


you asked for y' all roads

jerryglow2
 

I just completed a set for a steel C&WC rebuild from a USRA DS car:
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/C&WC_rebuild.jpg For HO
modelers, this is an rewarding kitbash of a Tichy kit w/ 5/5/5 ends
substituted, Accurail fishbelly underframe, and scratchbuilt roof like
the ACL and Frisco cars. Of course, it's available in all scales (I
actually did it for an S-scale customer).

--
Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals/


Re: Rapido Meat Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

They look good, and I appreciate the date information. One question:
Are all of these paint schemes legit? No offense, but I must ask, I
have shelves of foobies/stand-ins already... I'm interested in the
mid 1950's and later.

Tim O'Connor

At 7/15/2011 11:13 AM Friday, you wrote:
Armand,

A complete listing of the first release schemes is on our web site at
http://www.rapidotrains.com/reefer2.html, and yes, it does include both URTX
and GARX plain schemes.

Bill


Re: Colour match for the Rutland

PennsyNut <pennsynut@...>
 

On 15,07 2011 7:30 AM, Pierre wrote:

Thanks, Marty.
A quick look at the paint rack suggests Scalecoat Boxcar Red #2.
I've always wondered when America decided to shed the "u" in many
words. Armour, honour, colour, etc. But I digress...
Pierre Oliver
You say po tay toe, I say po tah toe, etc. I agree with Pierre, we
American's have had a hay day with English. Petrol became gas! Bonnet
became hood! bunches of stuff. Digression is fun -- sometimes. LOL
And thanks to our moderator for shutting off the NMRA, Conventions, etc.
I kept wondering what that all has to do with steam.
Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist SPF PRRTHS #1204


Re: ADMIN: NMRA Contest Thread Termination

Dave Nelson
 

All deserved but 120+ messages with nothing about Steam Era Freight Cars is
**120+ messages too many**. This topic shoudda been janked after just a
couple of them and then nobodies sensibilities or bile on an off-topic
thread would have been on display.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Holmes


I am horrified by some of the comments made about judging and contests.


Re: How painting cars has changed over the years.

naptownprr
 

Thanks for sending that, Steve. Thank goodness for air brushes!


Quoting Steve <stvvallee@yahoo.com>:

Dear Group...

While looking through the November, 1939 issue of Railroad
Magazine, I found this item under their Model Railroading section. I
thought that this Group would like to see just how far we've come
from the "Good Old Days" of painting:


Painting Your Cars

A ten-cent can of four-hour-drying enamel is splendid for passenger
equipment. Having used it, however, you must be careful to remove the
unwanted gloss by rubbing it over ever so slightly with Dutch
Cleanser or some similar powder. Thus you obtain a final effect which
is more like a waxed finish than anything else.

You don't want an enamel finish for two good and final reasons:
Grown-up railroad trains are not enameled, in this country anyhow;
and to enamel models is to make them into toy trains. But on
passenger equipment of the better class grown-up railroads, there is
a certain polish, a certain satiny sheen, which we do well to imitate.

The painting of rolling stock happens to be one of our favorite
pastimes. Pure green is the color we buy; and we mix it with black.
Somehow, the black seems to have more solid body to it, it works off
the brush and spreads more smoothly than the green. That's an
advantage. Our reason for using the black, however, is purely for the
color effect.

We begin with two small saucers of the pure green. To one of them we
add enough black to produce a definitely dark green; but the green in
the other saucer we make over into a greenish black. This is for the
roof, the dark green for the sides and ends.

Even so, we look over the car-roof carefully and find all the places
where soot would gather, and these we daub with pure black. And the
places that are washed clean with rain we daub with pure green. Then
after waiting fifteen minutes or so, we paint the roof with the
aforementioned mixture of greenish black. The daubs mix with it
slightly, making it greener along the top, blacker in among the
ventilators.

A good rule is to mix your colors by eye, and to mix them fresh for
each car. Thus you achieve a life-like variety of tones---some
looking fresh out of the shops, others weather-beaten, soot-covered;
but most of them at various stages in between. And thus, too, you
further avoid giving to your equipment the deadly prettiness of toy
trains.


Like they used to say,..."You've come a long way, baby"

Your Fellow Group Member
Steve Vallee


Re: Rapido Meat Reefer

Bill Schneider
 

Armand,

A complete listing of the first release schemes is on our web site at http://www.rapidotrains.com/reefer2.html, and yes, it does include both URTX and GARX plain schemes.

Bill

From: Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 10:44 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Rapido Meat Reefer




Bill,Will there be a plain URTX? Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Schneider
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Rapido Meat Reefer

"I have to say that the painted models look far better than the first batch
we saw a while ago.
Pierre Oliver"

I’d have to agree with that...!

The images of the "first batch" were in fact the very first test sample
which arrived just before the Cocoa Beach meet. Because of the nature of the
RPM meet I brought it along as a work in progress and explained to everybody
there that this was an early sample with many revisions yet to be made. Most
attendees understood and accepted this (well, all but one, but that's
another story...). Unfortunately, as photos were posted on various news
groups this explanation got lost. Such is the danger of sharing early
samples!

So, for clarity, there are still several revisions yet to be done to this
latest sample, including adding several rivets, textures to the hatches,
etc. Still, I think that all will agree that it is much improved and shows
that we are committed to getting it right.

Bill Schneider
Rapido Trains

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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81801 - 81820 of 183407