Date   

Re: Shorpy color rolling stock 1943

Dave Lawler
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Jul 19, 2011, at 9:41 AM, dvdlwlr wrote:

In the third row from forward, slightly left of center, there is a
short (possibly 36') SS box car with the doors open. The car
appears to have a black/white herald but, I can't make out the
lettering. Can anyone identify this car?
I model autumn 1944 and it is very hard to find color photos for
that time period. I felt this photo could be helpful with the added
bonus of some great weathering.
Dave Lawler
That's a 36' Fowler single sheathed box car owned by the Nashville,
Chattanooga, and St. Louis. The legend in the herald reads "The
Dixie Line," Westerfield produced kits for these cars.

This is only one of many Jack Delano color shots in the L of C
collection. Almost all are invaluable resources for World War II
modelers.

Richard Hendrickson

Thanks Richard, too bad Mr. Westerfield is no longer
producing.......

Dave Lawler



Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943

Larry Kline
 

This photo and many other Delano WWII color photos are available, at higher resolution, at the Library of Congress (LOC) web site
The link for this photo is: http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/fsa1992000843/PP/

To find it I googled "fsa owi delano bensenville" which took me to the LOC web site. Then I searched for "delano bensenville"

A search at the LOC web site for "jack delano railroad color" returns 236 results. I looked at a few and they are all available for downloading as high res tiffs. The ones I looked at are 100-140 Mbyte files.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

Dave Lawler wrote:
Good day all,
I don't know if this has been reviewed before but, it's new to me and thought many in this group would appreciate it.


Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943

Charlie Vlk
 

Cooincidently, a member of our Wednesday night railroad group just sent me a map showing the final realigned route of the C&NW "New Line" over Bensenville Yard and the rearrangements of Irving Park Road and the runways which now parallel the north edge of the yard. Anyone interested in a low-res jpeg of it please contact me off-list as it is off-topic.
Thanks,
Charlie Vlk


Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943

Charlie Vlk
 

Dennis-
I wasn't trying to say that the farmers field immediately north of the yard became O'Hare... although it is today with the incursion of the airport into Bensenville....
Charlie Vlk


Re: Shorpy color rolling stock 1943

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 19, 2011, at 9:41 AM, dvdlwlr wrote:

In the third row from forward, slightly left of center, there is a
short (possibly 36') SS box car with the doors open. The car
appears to have a black/white herald but, I can't make out the
lettering. Can anyone identify this car?
I model autumn 1944 and it is very hard to find color photos for
that time period. I felt this photo could be helpful with the added
bonus of some great weathering.
Dave Lawler
That's a 36' Fowler single sheathed box car owned by the Nashville,
Chattanooga, and St. Louis. The legend in the herald reads "The
Dixie Line," Westerfield produced kits for these cars.

This is only one of many Jack Delano color shots in the L of C
collection. Almost all are invaluable resources for World War II
modelers.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Shorpy color rolling stock 1943

Richard Townsend
 

I think that is the NC&StL box mentioned earlier. Is that a pre-PS-1 Pullman Standard (Southern?) welded box car (dare I say "PS-0"?) next to it? I also see three CB&Q XM-32 box cars: one in the back row to the right, one in front of the express reefer also just mentioned, and one a couple of rows in front of that.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: dvdlwlr <davelawler@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, Jul 19, 2011 6:44 am
Subject: [STMFC] Shorpy color rolling stock 1943





In the third row from forward, slightly left of center, there is a short (possibly 36') SS box car with the doors open. The car appears to have a black/white herald but, I can't make out the lettering. Can anyone identify this car?
I model autumn 1944 and it is very hard to find color photos for that time period. I felt this photo could be helpful with the added bonus of some great weathering.
Dave Lawler









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Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943

Benjamin Hom
 

Steve Hedlund wrote:
"It's too bad no one is willing to identify the cars in the photos to what
they are."

I'm not unwilling.  It's simply the fact that (a) you never requested IDs and
(b) it's not at the top of my priority list.


Ben Hom


Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943

Michael Aufderheide
 

Steve,
 
The 40 ft MILW gons are the Westerfield models.  The 50 foot cars you see in many photos and would be a great car to have a modeled.  A quick look at the 1954 ORER still shows 3200 composite 50ft gons on the MILW roster.
 
Mike Aufderheide

From: S hed <shed999@...>
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943


It's too bad no one is willing to identify the cars in the photos to what they are. Besides the obvious fact that there is a VGN hopper, a Reading box car, a MILW box car, a PRR box car, a MP box car and a NADX refrigerator car. And a beautiful looking MILW box car that is in the background (7xxxxx series) and it is in front of two Sinclair tank cars. Also no one has mentioned the string of Milwaukee Road coal gondolas behind the front row. Especially that unusually long gondola that is second from the left.
- Steve H.To: STMFC@...
From: destorzek@...
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 04:24:15 +0000
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock  1943






















 


   
     
     
     



--- In STMFC@..., "cvlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

Ooops!  I see it is the Milwaukee Road's Bensenville Yard.  If the view is to the north then yes, O'Hare is now there.... I think you can see hangers below the horizon which would be the Douglas aircraft plant which was the nucelus for the military field that gave birth to O'Hare.
Charlie Vlk


Actually not... O'Hare never came south of Irving Park Road, although that road was relocated around the south edge of the property that did become O'Hare. That's not the road that shows by the farmer's barn... If you look in the mid distance in the photo, you'll see the straight line of the top of a railroad embankment. That's the C&NW freight line running north from Proviso Yard; the old freight line, before it was relocated further west to the edge of the airport. Just about smack dab in the middle of the frame is a dark area on that embankment, which is the bridge over the old alignment of Irving Park Road, the bridge that became Chicago's own "bridge to nowhere" for a generation or two as both the railroad above it and the road that went under it had been relocated, and the bridge stood like a forlorn sentinel at the western edge of the airport, visible from Irving Park where it curved north back to its original alignment. That means we are west of
the C&NW, west of the MILW RIP track complex, and the land north of the tracks developed as an industrial park after WWII, until it was condemned for airport expansion in the last year or two.



But I do agree with Charlie that that is Orchard Field in the distance.



Dennis





   
   

   
   






                         

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------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943

Charlie Vlk
 

Steve-

With the ORERs available on the web and all the other resources available anyone that is interested in more detail on identifying the cars should be able to do it with not too much effort.... especially if one has the need for the information.

Charlie Vlk

&#92;> It's too bad no one is willing to identify the cars in the photos to what they are.


Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943

mopacfirst
 

And the express reefer, seemingly painted green, between two freight reefers with at least one hatch open (look behind the Burlington box).

Ron Merrick

--- In STMFC@..., S hed <shed999@...> wrote:


It's too bad no one is willing to identify the cars in the photos to what they are. Besides the obvious fact that there is a VGN hopper, a Reading box car, a MILW box car, a PRR box car, a MP box car and a NADX refrigerator car. And a beautiful looking MILW box car that is in the background (7xxxxx series) and it is in front of two Sinclair tank cars. Also no one has mentioned the string of Milwaukee Road coal gondolas behind the front row. Especially that unusually long gondola that is second from the left.
- Steve H.


Shorpy color rolling stock 1943

Dave Lawler
 

In the third row from forward, slightly left of center, there is a short (possibly 36') SS box car with the doors open. The car appears to have a black/white herald but, I can't make out the lettering. Can anyone identify this car?
I model autumn 1944 and it is very hard to find color photos for that time period. I felt this photo could be helpful with the added bonus of some great weathering.
Dave Lawler


Re: Contests (was: NMRA Sacramento)

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Jul 15, 2011, at 5:26 PM, almabranch wrote:

I thought he was a cardiologist.

For the longest time I conflated him with Steve Polkinghorn,
the dentist, having never met either of them.
--
Nolan Hinshaw, native Californian since 1944
"Gib einem Mann einen Fisch und er wird für einen Tag
zu essen. Teach einen Mann zu fischen und er wird in
einem Boot sitzen den ganzen Tag und trinken Bier."


Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943

Marty McGuirk
 

Wonderful shot, especially useful for weathering the roofs of steam era house cars.
Marty McGuirk

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Lawler" <davelawler@...> wrote:

Good day all,
I don’t know if this has been reviewed before but, it’s new to me and I thought many in this group would appreciate it.
Best regards,
Dave Lawler
Avon Lake, Ohio
http://www.shorpy.com/node/6969?size=_original

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943

S hed <shed999@...>
 

It's too bad no one is willing to identify the cars in the photos to what they are. Besides the obvious fact that there is a VGN hopper, a Reading box car, a MILW box car, a PRR box car, a MP box car and a NADX refrigerator car. And a beautiful looking MILW box car that is in the background (7xxxxx series) and it is in front of two Sinclair tank cars. Also no one has mentioned the string of Milwaukee Road coal gondolas behind the front row. Especially that unusually long gondola that is second from the left.
- Steve H.To: STMFC@...
From: destorzek@...
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 04:24:15 +0000
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943
































--- In STMFC@..., "cvlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

Ooops! I see it is the Milwaukee Road's Bensenville Yard. If the view is to the north then yes, O'Hare is now there.... I think you can see hangers below the horizon which would be the Douglas aircraft plant which was the nucelus for the military field that gave birth to O'Hare.
Charlie Vlk


Actually not... O'Hare never came south of Irving Park Road, although that road was relocated around the south edge of the property that did become O'Hare. That's not the road that shows by the farmer's barn... If you look in the mid distance in the photo, you'll see the straight line of the top of a railroad embankment. That's the C&NW freight line running north from Proviso Yard; the old freight line, before it was relocated further west to the edge of the airport. Just about smack dab in the middle of the frame is a dark area on that embankment, which is the bridge over the old alignment of Irving Park Road, the bridge that became Chicago's own "bridge to nowhere" for a generation or two as both the railroad above it and the road that went under it had been relocated, and the bridge stood like a forlorn sentinel at the western edge of the airport, visible from Irving Park where it curved north back to its original alignment. That means we are west of the C&NW, west of the MILW RIP track complex, and the land north of the tracks developed as an industrial park after WWII, until it was condemned for airport expansion in the last year or two.



But I do agree with Charlie that that is Orchard Field in the distance.



Dennis


















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Re: Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943

Steve Vallee
 

Dear Dave...

     W-O-W!!! What a great find. It has many weathering ideas. Many, many thanks for sharing this photo with the Group!

  Steve Vallee

--- On Mon, 7/18/11, Dave Lawler <davelawler@...> wrote:

From: Dave Lawler <davelawler@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Shorpy color Rollong Stock 1943
To: stmfc@...
Date: Monday, July 18, 2011, 9:15 PM







 









Good day all,

I don’t know if this has been reviewed before but, it’s new to me and I thought many in this group would appreciate it.

Best regards,

Dave Lawler

Avon Lake, Ohio

http://www.shorpy.com/node/6969?size=_original


























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: LCL

Tim O'Connor
 

I note that this steep decline was during the advent and general growth of
TOFC. Do the sources you quote refer only to the freight car loading of LCL.
Barry Bennett


Barry, TOFC was miniscule in the US in the 1950's, especially when
compared to LCL, and was limited to very few traffic lanes. So your idea
that LCL traffic moved to TOFC would only account for a tiny fraction
(less than 10%) of the old volume. The SP Overnight service in some traffic
lanes (LA-SF) shifted briefly to TOFC, but mostly SP and other roads
aggressively went after truckload business, and this is where TOFC was
ultimately very successful.

LCL "fell off a cliff" by 1960 -- the critical mass of volume was lost,
while infrastructure costs also grew -- a double whammy. Railroads would
have quit the LCL business much sooner IF THEY WERE ALLOWED -- but as
"common carriers" the ICC forced them to provide the service until long
after highway trucks proved themselves to be better and more efficient,
not to mention less prone to damage and theft.

Tim O'Connor


Re: LCL c. 1952

Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

Hi Tony,

I started to work for the GN in July 1968. Sometime between that date and
the BN Merger in 1970, I toured the GN's LCL facility in Fargo, ND. There
were about 10 to 12 cars spotted outside the doors and plenty of LCL in
the building. I am not sure when the GN/BN gave up LCL traffic, but in
that time frame they still carried quite a bit of LCL freight.

Joel Holmes

The railroads were still battling for LCL traffic in the 1950's.
The Burlington & the Santa Fe built new freight stations in the
Chicago area in the 1950's. The railroads were big into advertising
their LCL services. I consider the late 40's early 1950's as the
golden age of LCL traffic.
"Battling" doesn't mean there was much of it, only that it was
worth fighting for. Certainly in the Far West the LCL volume was tiny
by the 1950s, compared to the 1920s. "Golden Age?" You sure have a
different definition than what I'm used to.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Requesting ideas/suggestions for corner grabs in Plano roofwalks/ends.

jerryglow2
 

A couple more suggestions. Terry Wigmann custom ground one tip of a pair of chain nosed pliers to a small diameter to form eyelets smaller than ones from DA. Another method I use is take a strand of soft copper wire like from electrical cord and fold it over the grab and twist the ends until it forms a tight eye over the grab.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "davesnyder59" <davesnyder59@...> wrote:

Thank you Steve, Tim and Pierre. .........

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.


Re: Requesting ideas/suggestions for corner grabs in Plano roofwalks/ends.

davesnyder59
 

Thank you Steve, Tim and Pierre. Actually I posted that message on July 15th and already came up with the solution that Steve and Tim suggested. I could not get .012 wire to work and used .010 instead. Don't know what is up with Yahoo though as I have posted messages over a week ago on other lists and still haven't seen them yet.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:

I make my own eyebolts.

Bend brass wire about a scale 1/2" diameter for your scale around a piece of wire the diameter of the grabiron. It'll spring outward a little allowing a nice fit around the grabiron.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@> wrote:


Instead of eyelets, which are oversize, I use a short piece of wire
that I crush the end with flat nose pliers, and bend it over 90 degrees,
and then drape it over the grab iron (which I bend myself as you do).
I think this looks a lot better and I've never had one come undone.

Tim O'Connor



I bend my own from .012" wire and use an eyelet for the corner. I've found that the Plano holes don't match the commercial end walk grabs.
And save yourself verbal abuse. On this group it's running boards. :-)
Pierre Oliver

What do you gentlepeople use for corner grabs with the Plano roofwalk/ends? I'm thinking of wire but that offers no mounting detail. I have considered just cutting the pins off of the plastic grabs and gluing them on. Would appreciate any and all suggestions.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.


Re: LCL

Barrybennetttoo@...
 

Tim

I note that this steep decline was during the advent and general growth of
TOFC. Do the sources you quote refer only to the freight car loading of
LCL.

It would be reasonable to surmise that much of that 'lost' LCL traffic was
in fact being carried as TOFC trailers so the RR's were effectively still
carrying a proportion of the lost LCL traffic, but in a different medium. Is
there any source of information as to how much of that was carried in RR
owned trailers and how much of it in private owner trailers.

Did the RR's report LCL loading via RR owned trailers as a separate entity
to the LCL in freight cars. If so, is there any known source of data that
would allow the two to be totalled to give an overall figure for LCL hauled
by RR's during the same period.

Barry Bennett
Coventry, England

In a message dated 19/07/2011 05:23:42 GMT Daylight Time,
timboconnor@... writes:




LCL % total carloadings -- (data from Tim Gilbert, 10/12/2000)

1940 21.2% of 36.4 million (7.7 million) ( Note: 1940 was a depression
year )
1950 11.3% of 38.2 million (4.3 million)
1959 6.8% of 31.0 million (2.1 million)

Note the absolute change -- 5.6 million fewer carloads of LCL in
1959 compared to 1940. This is a decline of 73% in 19 years, even
in the face of a US economy that was booming and over 100% larger
in 1959 compared to 1940.

From this LCL presentation, % carloadings in 1921 was 28% -- and rose
as a % of total traffic to 32% in the deep depression year of 1932 --
Here is the link _http://ssandifer.com/Lay/Howard/Const/LCL/LCL.ppt_
(http://ssandifer.com/Lay/Howard/Const/LCL/LCL.ppt)

Tim O'Connor






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