Date   

Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

Dennis Williams
 

I built 5 of them. The 1st was the problem car, after that,, they were easy. Dennis. WWW.resinbuilders4u.com

On Thu Sep 1st, 2011 7:01 AM PDT Pierre wrote:

So I've seen now multiple references to the "difficulties" in building the vinegar tank car kit from Sunshine.
While it is indeed not a first timer kit, nor is it a simple kit, I feel that it is unfairly getting a reputation as a massively difficult kit. I've now built 3 of them and between reading Bill Darnaby's suggested building process and just plain thinking it through, 3 rather nice cars have resulted. If you approach the task logically it's really not that difficult.
And I can further state without hesitation, that there are other resin kits out there that are far worse and very badly thought out by the kit maker.
I guess, I'm asking/suggesting that we reconsider "bashing " the vinegar tank car kit.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

I believe our own Denny Anspach is a veteran of the wars required to build
one of the Sunshine cars.



SGL



If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711





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Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

So I've seen now multiple references to the "difficulties" in building the vinegar tank car kit from Sunshine.
While it is indeed not a first timer kit, nor is it a simple kit, I feel that it is unfairly getting a reputation as a massively difficult kit. I've now built 3 of them and between reading Bill Darnaby's suggested building process and just plain thinking it through, 3 rather nice cars have resulted. If you approach the task logically it's really not that difficult.
And I can further state without hesitation, that there are other resin kits out there that are far worse and very badly thought out by the kit maker.
I guess, I'm asking/suggesting that we reconsider "bashing " the vinegar tank car kit.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

I believe our own Denny Anspach is a veteran of the wars required to build
one of the Sunshine cars.



SGL



If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711





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Re: Hormel cars for Cocoa Beach

Randy Hammill
 

John -

Will the decals work for earlier schemes as well? Does anything in the kitbash need to be changed if modeling c1946 through to 1953?

Thanks -

Randy Hammill
http://newbritainstation.com

--- In STMFC@..., "sctry" <JGreedy@...> wrote:

The MRHA Hormel cars are from the series built in 1940 and are in the post 1953 paint scheme. Multiple car numbers are available via overlay decals.

John Greedy

--- In STMFC@..., "np328" <jcdworkingonthenp@> wrote:

John, of the MRHA cars, what years are they accurate for?
Build date being most important. Photos on the website are rather small to read any data. Thanks, Jim Dick - St. Paul

--- In STMFC@..., "sctry" <JGreedy@> wrote:

Time to start thinking about Cocoa Beach. There is still time to build those Hormel cars from the 2011 Shake-N-Take. If you need decals they are still available from 5th Avenue Car Shops. See the Shake-N-Take YahooGroups web site for details (decal orders and Hormel how-to instructions).

An alternate approach for the Hormel cars is to begin with a prepainted and lettered car. Check out the Milwaukee Road Historical Association web site (www.mrha.com) "Company Store" for fully decorated Hormel cars.

Hope to see many Hormel cars at ProtRails 2012. I have 3 cars completed and several more nearing completion on my work bench (early scheme with original board roof, early scheme with outside metal roof, later scheme with outside metal roof).

John Greedy


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I believe our own Denny Anspach is a veteran of the wars required to build
one of the Sunshine cars.



SGL



If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711





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Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18220)
http://www.pctools.com/
=======


Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Clark Propst
 

Ed wrote: "Builder's photos of 70051 from series 70051-70069 (odd) show the cars were painted black. Stencils were probably white but could also be
aluminum."

The painting diagrams call for white stenciling.
Clark Propst


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

Frank Pearsall
 

Good afternoon:

I have two sets of drawings in quarter-inch:

H.J. Heinz Pickle Tankcar
H.J. Heinz Vinegar Tankcar

These drawings are from the Heinz Company and are dated in 1941. Contact me off list for ordering info.

Frank A. Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.

On Aug 31, 2011, at 1:56 PM, O Fenton Wells wrote:

On the subject of vinegar tanks for you Southern fans, on the lower half
of page 46 of the book "Southern Railway System, a pictorial" by Doug
Nuckles and Curt Tillotson Jr., there is a picture of what looks like
a vinegar tank (I think), the first car behind Southern F7A (4187)leaving
Oxford NC at O&H junction. According to the authors the "pickle" car is
comming from a plant in Henderson NC. I wonder if the authors had other
pictures showing a better photo of the car that didn't make it into the
book?

FYI
Fenton Wells


Heinz Vinegar Tank Cars

John King
 

Winchester, VA, had three plants making vinegar from apple cider during the era covered by this list. One of them, the Heinz apple cider vinegar plant, was served by the B&O. Standard Brands had an office in town, but no plant of their own. Overland made a model of the Heinz car in brass; it has "issues" and, based on eBay prices when one shows up, some people think they are made of gold. Based on the responses to my original post, it looks like a Heinz vinegar car has never been done in resin.

Thanks again,

John K.

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Nelson" <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote:

Operationally speaking, Vinegar production in the steam era was usually
associated with Yeast production, vinegar being a byproduct. So if you know
of a Fleishman or in later years, Standard Brand's yeast factory (there was
one in East Oakland, CA), odds are good they also shipped vinegar. Yeast
may not seem like much of a product, but every large bread bakery needed
plenty and so the bigger the city, the better the odds a Standard Brands
yeast plant was near. As for vinegar consumption, it wasn't just for
pickling cucumbers -- making Catsup calls for plenty too.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
John,

If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

O Fenton Wells
 

On the subject of vinigar tanks...for you Southern fans, on the lower half
of page 46 of the book "Southern Railway System, a pictorial" by Doug
Nuckles and Curt Tillotson Jr. There is a picture of what looks like
a vinigar tank(I think), the first car behind Southern F7A (4187)leaving
Oxford NC at O&H junction. According to the authors the "pickle" car is
comming from a plant in Henderson NC. I wonder if the authors had other
pictures showing a better photo of the car that didn't make it into the
book?
FYI
Fenton Wells
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Dave Nelson <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote:

**


Operationally speaking, Vinegar production in the steam era was usually
associated with Yeast production, vinegar being a byproduct. So if you know
of a Fleishman or in later years, Standard Brand's yeast factory (there was
one in East Oakland, CA), odds are good they also shipped vinegar. Yeast
may not seem like much of a product, but every large bread bakery needed
plenty and so the bigger the city, the better the odds a Standard Brands
yeast plant was near. As for vinegar consumption, it wasn't just for
pickling cucumbers -- making Catsup calls for plenty too.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
John,

If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

Dave Nelson
 

Operationally speaking, Vinegar production in the steam era was usually
associated with Yeast production, vinegar being a byproduct. So if you know
of a Fleishman or in later years, Standard Brand's yeast factory (there was
one in East Oakland, CA), odds are good they also shipped vinegar. Yeast
may not seem like much of a product, but every large bread bakery needed
plenty and so the bigger the city, the better the odds a Standard Brands
yeast plant was near. As for vinegar consumption, it wasn't just for
pickling cucumbers -- making Catsup calls for plenty too.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
John,

If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711


Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

Another small but noticeable difference may be the vertical
ribs. On PS car photos I've seen, the top of the rib is tapered
at about a 45 degree angle. There are also different hatch
designs, although I don't know if that's a builder difference or
a customer difference.

Tim O'Connor



The IM model is based on the ACF design. On the version of the
prototype car that IM produces, one distinguishing difference is the
locking bar arrangement. The ACF design had a single L-shaped rod that
held each hatch cover in the closed position. Cars built by
Pullman-Standard and GATC had two of these L-shaped rods per hatch.

I'm not positive buy IM might have developed a second locking bar
arrangement for P-S and GATC cars since they were so prevalent.

The 10 M&StL cars built in 1940 by GATC were discussed in a Mainline
Modeler article (July 1993). A drawing is provided but no photos.
Builder's photos of 70051 from series 70051-70069 (odd) show the cars
were painted black. Stencils were probably white but could also be
aluminum. They had two L-shaped rods per hatch, the middle section of
the sides were open, Apex running boards, Equipco hand brakes, and
70-ton double-truss spring-plankless trucks.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

See Mainline Modeler, May 1993 for a builder photo of M&StL 70051.

The IM model is based on the ACF design. On the version of the
prototype car that IM produces, one distinguishing difference is the
locking bar arrangement. The ACF design had a single L-shaped rod that
held each hatch cover in the closed position. Cars built by
Pullman-Standard and GATC had two of these L-shaped rods per hatch.

I'm not positive buy IM might have developed a second locking bar
arrangement for P-S and GATC cars since they were so prevalent.

The 10 M&StL cars built in 1940 by GATC were discussed in a Mainline
Modeler article (July 1993). A drawing is provided but no photos.
Builder's photos of 70051 from series 70051-70069 (odd) show the cars
were painted black. Stencils were probably white but could also be
aluminum. They had two L-shaped rods per hatch, the middle section of
the sides were open, Apex running boards, Equipco hand brakes, and
70-ton double-truss spring-plankless trucks.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Douglas Harding
 

My Thanks to Ed and Richard for their quick response. Confirms the cars are extremely close, with just one minor detail.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 31, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Does anyone know the prototype for the InterMountain HO 1958 cu ft
covered
Hopper? Is if ACF, GA or P-S? I ask because they offered it in a
M&StL paint
scheme that is accurate for a series of cars the M&StL bought in
1940 from
GA.
Doug, the IM covered hopper represents an AC&F car, but General
American and Greenville built cars that were essentially identical
apart from some minor detail differences. I recently modified one to
represent a Union Pacific CH-70-1 which was built in late 1940 by
GATC, and all I had to do was replace the running board (the
prototype car had a wood rather than steel grid running board) and
modify the hatch cover latch mechanisms to represent the somewhat
different GATC versions.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 31, 2011, at 9:55 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Does anyone know the prototype for the InterMountain HO 1958 cu ft
covered
Hopper? Is if ACF, GA or P-S? I ask because they offered it in a
M&StL paint
scheme that is accurate for a series of cars the M&StL bought in 1940
from
GA.
Doug,
The IM model is based on the ACF design. On the version of the
prototype car that IM produces, one distinguishing difference is the
locking bar arrangement. The ACF design had a single L-shaped rod that
held each hatch cover in the closed position. Cars built by
Pullman-Standard and GATC had two of these L-shaped rods per hatch.

I'm not positive buy IM might have developed a second locking bar
arrangement for P-S and GATC cars since they were so prevalent.

The 10 M&StL cars built in 1940 by GATC were discussed in a Mainline
Modeler article (July 1993). A drawing is provided but no photos.
Builder's photos of 70051 from series 70051-70069 (odd) show the cars
were painted black. Stencils were probably white but could also be
aluminum. They had two L-shaped rods per hatch, the middle section of
the sides were open, Apex running boards, Equipco hand brakes, and
70-ton double-truss spring-plankless trucks.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Vinegar Tank

john.allyn@...
 

I don't think so.  The article was in the March, 1955 Model Railroader.  If I remember correctly, the Stevens car was a single wooden  tank on a steel frame and was used to carry mineral water.  The Ambroid/Northeastern kit (and I have one too waiting to be built) had two tanks on a steel frame (which of course lacked rivet detail) and was lettered with silk screen for A. M. Richter. 

John B. Allyn
Nashville TN 37215

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don" <riverman_vt@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 7:45:05 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Vinegar Tank

 






--- In STMFC@... , "barryb2again" <Barrybennetttoo@...> wrote:

Gentlemen

While we are on the subject of wooden vinegar cars, does anyone have any details of the prototype history etc of the Northeastern vinegar tank car kit. I've got one and will eventually get around to building it.

I've got a museum photo of one that is similar but would be interested to know how accurate the kit is and any history of potential prototypes.

Barry Bennett
Wasn't this car kit based on the one Eric Stevens did a construction article for in Model Railroader back in the mid-1950's?
Not sure but wondering.

Don Valentine


Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Douglas Harding
 

Does anyone know the prototype for the InterMountain HO 1958 cu ft covered
Hopper? Is if ACF, GA or P-S? I ask because they offered it in a M&StL paint
scheme that is accurate for a series of cars the M&StL bought in 1940 from
GA.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Vinegar Tank

Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "barryb2again" <Barrybennetttoo@...> wrote:

Gentlemen

While we are on the subject of wooden vinegar cars, does anyone have any details of the prototype history etc of the Northeastern vinegar tank car kit. I've got one and will eventually get around to building it.

I've got a museum photo of one that is similar but would be interested to know how accurate the kit is and any history of potential prototypes.

Barry Bennett

Wasn't this car kit based on the one Eric Stevens did a construction article for in Model Railroader back in the mid-1950's?
Not sure but wondering.

Don Valentine


Re: End Numbers

Tim O'Connor
 

I've seen photos of LV hoppers with the LV emblem AND a stenciled car number,
but I've never seen a photo of one with the number inside the emblem! When was
LV 19000 built?

Champ decals actually made the 10" herald for the hoppers: HH-281

Tim O'Connor

At 8/30/2011 08:01 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
I recently saw a photo in a magazine of a Lehigh Valley 19000 series ribbed offset-side hopper that had its end number painted in a black diamond. It was car number 19000. Did any other roads use their herald on the end of their cars?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

Tim O'Connor
 

He's probably thinking of the Heinz PICKLE tank car from Westerfield,
kits 2200/1/2/3.

At 8/29/2011 11:28 PM Monday, you wrote:
John - Virtually everything we've ever made except for limited runs and cars removed because they weren't accurate enough are on the web site. We did not make a vinegar tank car. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: boyds1949
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank



Is there a complete list of Westerfield kits online? Al's websites list the kits that were available at the time he stopped selling but I am wondering if there were kits that were produced early on and discontinued and are not listed.

I was visiting a layout last week and there was a excellent model of Heinz 204 which he identified as being built from a Westerfield kit. I don't remember ever seeing this model on his lists.

Thanks in advance.

John King


Re: GN Airslides, color(s) of lettering

Tim O'Connor
 

I've heard lots of stories like that, but I'm incredulous -- even a
lowly underpaid office worker probably understands that glossy photos
have a reasonable resale value. Yes, a manager might have said "throw
those out" .. and they subsequently end up in the trunk of some employee
automobile. Every now and then on Ebay I've seen GATC 8x10 glossy prints
for sale -- bought a couple myself. They were official company photos.

Tim O'Connor



Subsequently I have been told that all the historical records and photos
went into a dumpster some years ago.
Thomas N. Birkett, PE
Bartlesville, OK

92081 - 92100 of 194804