Date   

Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I believe our own Denny Anspach is a veteran of the wars required to build
one of the Sunshine cars.



SGL



If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711





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Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Clark Propst
 

Ed wrote: "Builder's photos of 70051 from series 70051-70069 (odd) show the cars were painted black. Stencils were probably white but could also be
aluminum."

The painting diagrams call for white stenciling.
Clark Propst


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

Frank Pearsall
 

Good afternoon:

I have two sets of drawings in quarter-inch:

H.J. Heinz Pickle Tankcar
H.J. Heinz Vinegar Tankcar

These drawings are from the Heinz Company and are dated in 1941. Contact me off list for ordering info.

Frank A. Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.

On Aug 31, 2011, at 1:56 PM, O Fenton Wells wrote:

On the subject of vinegar tanks for you Southern fans, on the lower half
of page 46 of the book "Southern Railway System, a pictorial" by Doug
Nuckles and Curt Tillotson Jr., there is a picture of what looks like
a vinegar tank (I think), the first car behind Southern F7A (4187)leaving
Oxford NC at O&H junction. According to the authors the "pickle" car is
comming from a plant in Henderson NC. I wonder if the authors had other
pictures showing a better photo of the car that didn't make it into the
book?

FYI
Fenton Wells


Heinz Vinegar Tank Cars

John King
 

Winchester, VA, had three plants making vinegar from apple cider during the era covered by this list. One of them, the Heinz apple cider vinegar plant, was served by the B&O. Standard Brands had an office in town, but no plant of their own. Overland made a model of the Heinz car in brass; it has "issues" and, based on eBay prices when one shows up, some people think they are made of gold. Based on the responses to my original post, it looks like a Heinz vinegar car has never been done in resin.

Thanks again,

John K.

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Nelson" <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote:

Operationally speaking, Vinegar production in the steam era was usually
associated with Yeast production, vinegar being a byproduct. So if you know
of a Fleishman or in later years, Standard Brand's yeast factory (there was
one in East Oakland, CA), odds are good they also shipped vinegar. Yeast
may not seem like much of a product, but every large bread bakery needed
plenty and so the bigger the city, the better the odds a Standard Brands
yeast plant was near. As for vinegar consumption, it wasn't just for
pickling cucumbers -- making Catsup calls for plenty too.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
John,

If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

O Fenton Wells
 

On the subject of vinigar tanks...for you Southern fans, on the lower half
of page 46 of the book "Southern Railway System, a pictorial" by Doug
Nuckles and Curt Tillotson Jr. There is a picture of what looks like
a vinigar tank(I think), the first car behind Southern F7A (4187)leaving
Oxford NC at O&H junction. According to the authors the "pickle" car is
comming from a plant in Henderson NC. I wonder if the authors had other
pictures showing a better photo of the car that didn't make it into the
book?
FYI
Fenton Wells
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Dave Nelson <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote:

**


Operationally speaking, Vinegar production in the steam era was usually
associated with Yeast production, vinegar being a byproduct. So if you know
of a Fleishman or in later years, Standard Brand's yeast factory (there was
one in East Oakland, CA), odds are good they also shipped vinegar. Yeast
may not seem like much of a product, but every large bread bakery needed
plenty and so the bigger the city, the better the odds a Standard Brands
yeast plant was near. As for vinegar consumption, it wasn't just for
pickling cucumbers -- making Catsup calls for plenty too.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
John,

If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

Dave Nelson
 

Operationally speaking, Vinegar production in the steam era was usually
associated with Yeast production, vinegar being a byproduct. So if you know
of a Fleishman or in later years, Standard Brand's yeast factory (there was
one in East Oakland, CA), odds are good they also shipped vinegar. Yeast
may not seem like much of a product, but every large bread bakery needed
plenty and so the bigger the city, the better the odds a Standard Brands
yeast plant was near. As for vinegar consumption, it wasn't just for
pickling cucumbers -- making Catsup calls for plenty too.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
John,

If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711


Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

Another small but noticeable difference may be the vertical
ribs. On PS car photos I've seen, the top of the rib is tapered
at about a 45 degree angle. There are also different hatch
designs, although I don't know if that's a builder difference or
a customer difference.

Tim O'Connor



The IM model is based on the ACF design. On the version of the
prototype car that IM produces, one distinguishing difference is the
locking bar arrangement. The ACF design had a single L-shaped rod that
held each hatch cover in the closed position. Cars built by
Pullman-Standard and GATC had two of these L-shaped rods per hatch.

I'm not positive buy IM might have developed a second locking bar
arrangement for P-S and GATC cars since they were so prevalent.

The 10 M&StL cars built in 1940 by GATC were discussed in a Mainline
Modeler article (July 1993). A drawing is provided but no photos.
Builder's photos of 70051 from series 70051-70069 (odd) show the cars
were painted black. Stencils were probably white but could also be
aluminum. They had two L-shaped rods per hatch, the middle section of
the sides were open, Apex running boards, Equipco hand brakes, and
70-ton double-truss spring-plankless trucks.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

See Mainline Modeler, May 1993 for a builder photo of M&StL 70051.

The IM model is based on the ACF design. On the version of the
prototype car that IM produces, one distinguishing difference is the
locking bar arrangement. The ACF design had a single L-shaped rod that
held each hatch cover in the closed position. Cars built by
Pullman-Standard and GATC had two of these L-shaped rods per hatch.

I'm not positive buy IM might have developed a second locking bar
arrangement for P-S and GATC cars since they were so prevalent.

The 10 M&StL cars built in 1940 by GATC were discussed in a Mainline
Modeler article (July 1993). A drawing is provided but no photos.
Builder's photos of 70051 from series 70051-70069 (odd) show the cars
were painted black. Stencils were probably white but could also be
aluminum. They had two L-shaped rods per hatch, the middle section of
the sides were open, Apex running boards, Equipco hand brakes, and
70-ton double-truss spring-plankless trucks.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Douglas Harding
 

My Thanks to Ed and Richard for their quick response. Confirms the cars are extremely close, with just one minor detail.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 31, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Does anyone know the prototype for the InterMountain HO 1958 cu ft
covered
Hopper? Is if ACF, GA or P-S? I ask because they offered it in a
M&StL paint
scheme that is accurate for a series of cars the M&StL bought in
1940 from
GA.
Doug, the IM covered hopper represents an AC&F car, but General
American and Greenville built cars that were essentially identical
apart from some minor detail differences. I recently modified one to
represent a Union Pacific CH-70-1 which was built in late 1940 by
GATC, and all I had to do was replace the running board (the
prototype car had a wood rather than steel grid running board) and
modify the hatch cover latch mechanisms to represent the somewhat
different GATC versions.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 31, 2011, at 9:55 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Does anyone know the prototype for the InterMountain HO 1958 cu ft
covered
Hopper? Is if ACF, GA or P-S? I ask because they offered it in a
M&StL paint
scheme that is accurate for a series of cars the M&StL bought in 1940
from
GA.
Doug,
The IM model is based on the ACF design. On the version of the
prototype car that IM produces, one distinguishing difference is the
locking bar arrangement. The ACF design had a single L-shaped rod that
held each hatch cover in the closed position. Cars built by
Pullman-Standard and GATC had two of these L-shaped rods per hatch.

I'm not positive buy IM might have developed a second locking bar
arrangement for P-S and GATC cars since they were so prevalent.

The 10 M&StL cars built in 1940 by GATC were discussed in a Mainline
Modeler article (July 1993). A drawing is provided but no photos.
Builder's photos of 70051 from series 70051-70069 (odd) show the cars
were painted black. Stencils were probably white but could also be
aluminum. They had two L-shaped rods per hatch, the middle section of
the sides were open, Apex running boards, Equipco hand brakes, and
70-ton double-truss spring-plankless trucks.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Vinegar Tank

john.allyn@...
 

I don't think so.  The article was in the March, 1955 Model Railroader.  If I remember correctly, the Stevens car was a single wooden  tank on a steel frame and was used to carry mineral water.  The Ambroid/Northeastern kit (and I have one too waiting to be built) had two tanks on a steel frame (which of course lacked rivet detail) and was lettered with silk screen for A. M. Richter. 

John B. Allyn
Nashville TN 37215

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don" <riverman_vt@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 7:45:05 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Vinegar Tank

 






--- In STMFC@... , "barryb2again" <Barrybennetttoo@...> wrote:

Gentlemen

While we are on the subject of wooden vinegar cars, does anyone have any details of the prototype history etc of the Northeastern vinegar tank car kit. I've got one and will eventually get around to building it.

I've got a museum photo of one that is similar but would be interested to know how accurate the kit is and any history of potential prototypes.

Barry Bennett
Wasn't this car kit based on the one Eric Stevens did a construction article for in Model Railroader back in the mid-1950's?
Not sure but wondering.

Don Valentine


Intermountain 1958 Covered Hopper

Douglas Harding
 

Does anyone know the prototype for the InterMountain HO 1958 cu ft covered
Hopper? Is if ACF, GA or P-S? I ask because they offered it in a M&StL paint
scheme that is accurate for a series of cars the M&StL bought in 1940 from
GA.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Vinegar Tank

Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "barryb2again" <Barrybennetttoo@...> wrote:

Gentlemen

While we are on the subject of wooden vinegar cars, does anyone have any details of the prototype history etc of the Northeastern vinegar tank car kit. I've got one and will eventually get around to building it.

I've got a museum photo of one that is similar but would be interested to know how accurate the kit is and any history of potential prototypes.

Barry Bennett

Wasn't this car kit based on the one Eric Stevens did a construction article for in Model Railroader back in the mid-1950's?
Not sure but wondering.

Don Valentine


Re: End Numbers

Tim O'Connor
 

I've seen photos of LV hoppers with the LV emblem AND a stenciled car number,
but I've never seen a photo of one with the number inside the emblem! When was
LV 19000 built?

Champ decals actually made the 10" herald for the hoppers: HH-281

Tim O'Connor

At 8/30/2011 08:01 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
I recently saw a photo in a magazine of a Lehigh Valley 19000 series ribbed offset-side hopper that had its end number painted in a black diamond. It was car number 19000. Did any other roads use their herald on the end of their cars?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

Tim O'Connor
 

He's probably thinking of the Heinz PICKLE tank car from Westerfield,
kits 2200/1/2/3.

At 8/29/2011 11:28 PM Monday, you wrote:
John - Virtually everything we've ever made except for limited runs and cars removed because they weren't accurate enough are on the web site. We did not make a vinegar tank car. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: boyds1949
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank



Is there a complete list of Westerfield kits online? Al's websites list the kits that were available at the time he stopped selling but I am wondering if there were kits that were produced early on and discontinued and are not listed.

I was visiting a layout last week and there was a excellent model of Heinz 204 which he identified as being built from a Westerfield kit. I don't remember ever seeing this model on his lists.

Thanks in advance.

John King


Re: GN Airslides, color(s) of lettering

Tim O'Connor
 

I've heard lots of stories like that, but I'm incredulous -- even a
lowly underpaid office worker probably understands that glossy photos
have a reasonable resale value. Yes, a manager might have said "throw
those out" .. and they subsequently end up in the trunk of some employee
automobile. Every now and then on Ebay I've seen GATC 8x10 glossy prints
for sale -- bought a couple myself. They were official company photos.

Tim O'Connor



Subsequently I have been told that all the historical records and photos
went into a dumpster some years ago.
Thomas N. Birkett, PE
Bartlesville, OK


Re: GN Airslides, color(s) of lettering

Tim O'Connor
 

There is another excellent photo of a brand new GN #71903 on page 31
of the Four Ways West Great Northern Freight Car Pictorial Volume 2.
This photo is not in the RP Cyc. The car looks very new, and the
lettering (ALL of it, including the herald) definitely looks "other
than black" to me. I would actually have guessed bright red, if Steffan
had not found the drawing that says it was "box car" red.

Tim O'Connor



We know that black & white photos can be tricky to interpret, and I'll
happily stand corrected by defering to painting/lettering diagrams if
they can be located. The AFE may well be correct about the use of box
car red stencils, but on gray Airslide cars built in 1954-1955 this
color would be pretty unusual.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Duryea coupler pockets.

Tim O'Connor
 

Ted's roster of Duryea equipped freight cars and a drawing of a flat car
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/protoduryeamain.html

Also see Mainline Modeler Feb 1986 which has a drawing for application to
a 1932 ARA box car, plus photos.

Other references:

Train Shed Cyclopedia #75, page 385 - gondola drawings
Train Shed Cyclopedia #75, page 386 - twin hopper drawings

Tim O'

------------------------------------------------

To simulate a Duryea underframe you may want to consider modeling the
end of the center sill and the center sill guides that slide on
"hangers" attached to the end sill. For the Duryea underframe, the end
of the center sill extended about 7" further from the end than a
traditional striker plate. And yes, you want to use scale couplers and
draft gear. The model of the B&O M-53 from WrightTrak captures this detail.

There are photos of a M-53 on the B&O Yahoo Group that has several views
of the ends of the center sill. I am not sure if you need to be a member
to view them.

Bob Witt

http://tinyurl.com/3wxxsaq


Vinegar Tank

barryb2again <Barrybennetttoo@...>
 

Gentlemen

While we are on the subject of wooden vinegar cars, does anyone have any details of the prototype history etc of the Northeastern vinegar tank car kit. I've got one and will eventually get around to building it.

I've got a museum photo of one that is similar but would be interested to know how accurate the kit is and any history of potential prototypes.

Barry Bennett

92801 - 92820 of 195521