Date   

Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York

Bryan Busséy
 

The NYNH&H also operated in New York: The Maybrook Line (Orange,
Dutchess) and the Main Line (Westchester, Bronx, Queens, Kings, New York).

bb

On 9/2/2011 12:04 PM, Bill Schneider wrote:

Here's a start Bill. I'm sure that others can fill in some blanks.

Bill Schneider

Erie Railroad Co. - New York -

Nickel Plate – New York -

Long Island Railroad Co. – New York – Kings, Bronx, Queens, Nassau,
Suffolk
Counties

New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Co. – Connecticut (all) –
Fairfield,
Litchfield, New Haven, Middlesex, Hartford, Tolland, New London and
Windham
counties
New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Co. – Massachusetts – Hampden,
Berkshire, Barnstaple, Plymouth, Bristol, Norfolk, Suffolk, Middlesex,
Worcester, Hampshire.

New York, Ontario & Western Railway Co. – New York – Orange, Sullivan,
Ulster, Delaware, Ostego, Oneida, Oswego, Rockland Counties (maybe a few
smaller ones as well)

Pennsylvania Railroad Co. – New York – Chemung, Schuyler, Seneca, Wayne,
Cattaraugus, Erie, (maybe others)

Staten Island Rapid Transit Ry. - New York – Richmond County (?)
__________________________________________________________

From: Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:18 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York

Gentleman:

Using the list of FGE contracted railroads from my message # 102650
as a reference, can those of you familiar with the railroads with
trackage in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York, please send me
a message identifying which ones operated in each of the three
states. I know the Long Island Railroad served Suffolk County and the
Staten Island Rapid Transit served Staten Island/Richmond County. I
realize some may be obvious but in this case I would appreciate it
you assume I know nothing.

Further, if you know which counties the particular RR's in question
served in each state that would be very helpful also. I have USDA
info with loadings by county and I am trying to sort out who would
have been loading "what" and "when?"

Thanks in advance for your help!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
mailto:fgexbill%40tampabay.rr.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York

ROGER HINMAN
 

For Connecticut, I think its pretty save to say the New Haven was in every county and had a monopoly

For Massachusetts
Barnstable New Haven
Plymouth New Haven
Bristol New Haven
Norfolk New Haven
Suffolk New Haven, B&M, B&A
Essex B&M
Middlesex B&M, New Haven, B&A
Worcester B&M, New Haven, B&A
Hampden New Haven
Hampshire B&M, New Haven, B&A
Franklin B&M
Berkshire B&M, New Haven, B&A


Roger Hinman

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York

Bill Schneider
 

Here's a start Bill. I'm sure that others can fill in some blanks.

Bill Schneider

Erie Railroad Co. - New York -

Nickel Plate – New York -

Long Island Railroad Co. – New York – Kings, Bronx, Queens, Nassau, Suffolk Counties

New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Co. – Connecticut (all) – Fairfield, Litchfield, New Haven, Middlesex, Hartford, Tolland, New London and Windham counties
New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Co. – Massachusetts – Hampden, Berkshire, Barnstaple, Plymouth, Bristol, Norfolk, Suffolk, Middlesex, Worcester, Hampshire.

New York, Ontario & Western Railway Co. – New York – Orange, Sullivan, Ulster, Delaware, Ostego, Oneida, Oswego, Rockland Counties (maybe a few smaller ones as well)

Pennsylvania Railroad Co. – New York – Chemung, Schuyler, Seneca, Wayne, Cattaraugus, Erie, (maybe others)

Staten Island Rapid Transit Ry. - New York – Richmond County (?)
___________________________________________________________

From: Bill Welch
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:18 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York




Gentleman:

Using the list of FGE contracted railroads from my message # 102650
as a reference, can those of you familiar with the railroads with
trackage in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York, please send me
a message identifying which ones operated in each of the three
states. I know the Long Island Railroad served Suffolk County and the
Staten Island Rapid Transit served Staten Island/Richmond County. I
realize some may be obvious but in this case I would appreciate it
you assume I know nothing.

Further, if you know which counties the particular RR's in question
served in each state that would be very helpful also. I have USDA
info with loadings by county and I am trying to sort out who would
have been loading "what" and "when?"

Thanks in advance for your help!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
mailto:fgexbill%40tampabay.rr.com


Lehigh Valley Black Diamond

Ed Hawkins
 

STMFC members,
Does anyone know the precise size of the LV diamond (point to point dimensions) used on their 52'-6" gondola cars, specifically 32000-32599 (1941-1942) and 32850-33699 (1950 and 1952)? I've scaled a photo and came up with 21" high by 33" long, but I would like to know the official dimension if it's known. Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York

Bill Welch
 

Gentleman:

Using the list of FGE contracted railroads from my message # 102650
as a reference, can those of you familiar with the railroads with
trackage in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York, please send me
a message identifying which ones operated in each of the three
states. I know the Long Island Railroad served Suffolk County and the
Staten Island Rapid Transit served Staten Island/Richmond County. I
realize some may be obvious but in this case I would appreciate it
you assume I know nothing.

Further, if you know which counties the particular RR's in question
served in each state that would be very helpful also. I have USDA
info with loadings by county and I am trying to sort out who would
have been loading "what" and "when?"

Thanks in advance for your help!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com


Re: End Numbers

rdgbuff56
 

Tim,
     You will find photos on Trainlife site.  Rail Model Journal - October, 2002 issue.  I have not yet read the article.  Seems like a simple kit -bash.  Caption under photo says 1948 car order.
 
Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] End Numbers


 


I've seen photos of LV hoppers with the LV emblem AND a stenciled car number,
but I've never seen a photo of one with the number inside the emblem! When was
LV 19000 built?

Champ decals actually made the 10" herald for the hoppers: HH-281

Tim O'Connor

At 8/30/2011 08:01 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
I recently saw a photo in a magazine of a Lehigh Valley 19000 series ribbed offset-side hopper that had its end number painted in a black diamond. It was car number 19000. Did any other roads use their herald on the end of their cars?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


SP F-50-4 was Re: Flat car

jerryglow2
 

Mike has had me produce and has ordered decals for his project so I assume they'll be included or offered thru him. I will offer them in other scales directly.

Jerry Glow
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals/

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Calvert" <mike.calvert@...> wrote:

Thanks to Clark Propst and Tom Madden for their replies.
Both responses are correct, but I should have included "SP/UP F-50-4" in my
question.

I am producing an O scale kit and need the correct name for the
Instructions.
Mike Calvert


Re: Texas & Pacific DS box car...

sunbeam13n14
 

Hi Ed -
 
Just re-read your article on T&P Box Cars that appeared in volume 25 no.1 of The Eagle.
I should have read it before offering my observations.
 
I was definitely wrong about the M.O.W. car we both had seen in Grand Prairie; it was X4429.
 
Thank you for your corrections.
 
Frank

--- On Thu, 9/1/11, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Texas & Pacific DS box car...
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 1, 2011, 10:44 PM


 




On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Frank Fertitta wrote:

I grew up in the Dallas - Ft Worth area and passed through Grand
Prairie (the "mid cities" area) many many times during the sixties and
seventies. The Texas & Pacific main is doubled tracked through Grand
Prairie right beside Highway 80 and I saw M.O.W. box car X4556 (photo
on the T&P site) spotted on a spur near the LTV plant several times.
 
As I recall its color was typical of the T&P rolling stock that was
still carrying T&P reporting marks. That is, its box cars, (as well as
the M-K-T's for that matter) had a more reddish tint than the other
box cars you might see in a typical train.
 
Far be it for me to question Ed Hawkins' freight car knowledge but my
recollection would place T&P box cars' color closer to Tuscan than any
box car brown paint I've seen or used. If the paints used in the
thirties and forties were different, I wouldn't know.
Frank,
You're absolutely correct that during the 1950s (and later) that T&P's
freight cars were red-brown in color. The original question involved a
T&P 50000-series double-sheathed box car as it would have appeared in
1939. Before the early 1940s, box cars for all but a few railroads
(Union Pacific being a major exception) were a relatively dark shade of
brown. Some had a hint of red, but brown was the ruling hue. In
addition, these paints were flat. During the 1940s and throughout World
War II, the paints began to change formulation, and by the postwar
period were much brighter and most with a sheen when applied. Even
"Santa Fe Mineral Brown" changed significantly from 1941 (very much a
dark brown) to 1948 (a glossy red-brown hue, not at all unlike T&P used
during this later time period). Actual paint chips for cars built from
the early 1930s to 1952 are contained in numerous ACF bills of
materials. These paint samples can be viewed by anyone wanting see them
by arranging a visit to the St. Louis Mercantile Library.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank (UNCLASSIFIED)

roblmclear <rob.mclear3@...>
 

Then I started their Caswell Gondola.It had to have been designed by Freddy..The number of small operating wheels for the drop bottom doors are a time consuming pain in the B---I would have to rate this car as the most challenging of all the Westerfields with which I am familiar......... and I have yet to finish it . ..Armand Premo

Armand

I'm no expert either but I built two of these kits some time ago and had a great time doing it, I have posted a couple of pictures in the photos section under ATSF Caswells, hopefully they will turn up soon when approved by the moderator. I didn't get around to weathering them as they were sold almost after they were built when a friend offered more than I was able to refuse when he saw them. Loved the kits and really miss Al's products.

Regards
Rob Mclear
Brisbane Australia.


Texas & Pacific DS box car...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Frank Fertitta wrote:
I grew up in the Dallas - Ft Worth area . . . many many times during the sixties and seventies I saw M.O.W. box car X4556 (photo on the T&P site) spotted on a spur near the LTV plant several times. As I recall its color was typical of the T&P rolling stock that was still carrying T&P reporting marks. That is, its box cars, (as well as the M-K-T's for that matter) had a more reddish tint than the other box cars you might see in a typical train.
I guess I would feel a trifle nervous to base a color decision about a box car in 1939 (when Jack models) on RECOLLECTIONS of the color of an MOW box car from the sixties and seventies. No disrespect, Frank, but color memory, even if era-precise, is notoriously unreliable. If I were Jack, I suppose I would take the comment as a single data point and hope for a bunch of better ones.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Texas & Pacific DS box car...

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Frank Fertitta wrote:

I grew up in the Dallas - Ft Worth area and passed through Grand
Prairie (the "mid cities" area) many many times during the sixties and
seventies. The Texas & Pacific main is doubled tracked through Grand
Prairie right beside Highway 80 and I saw M.O.W. box car X4556 (photo
on the T&P site) spotted on a spur near the LTV plant several times.
 
As I recall its color was typical of the T&P rolling stock that was
still carrying T&P reporting marks. That is, its box cars, (as well as
the M-K-T's for that matter) had a more reddish tint than the other
box cars you might see in a typical train.
 
Far be it for me to question Ed Hawkins' freight car knowledge but my
recollection would place T&P box cars' color closer to Tuscan than any
box car brown paint I've seen or used. If the paints used in the
thirties and forties were different, I wouldn't know.
Frank,
You're absolutely correct that during the 1950s (and later) that T&P's
freight cars were red-brown in color. The original question involved a
T&P 50000-series double-sheathed box car as it would have appeared in
1939. Before the early 1940s, box cars for all but a few railroads
(Union Pacific being a major exception) were a relatively dark shade of
brown. Some had a hint of red, but brown was the ruling hue. In
addition, these paints were flat. During the 1940s and throughout World
War II, the paints began to change formulation, and by the postwar
period were much brighter and most with a sheen when applied. Even
"Santa Fe Mineral Brown" changed significantly from 1941 (very much a
dark brown) to 1948 (a glossy red-brown hue, not at all unlike T&P used
during this later time period). Actual paint chips for cars built from
the early 1930s to 1952 are contained in numerous ACF bills of
materials. These paint samples can be viewed by anyone wanting see them
by arranging a visit to the St. Louis Mercantile Library.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Texas & Pacific DS box car...

sunbeam13n14
 

Jack -
 
I grew up in the Dallas - Ft Worth area and passed through Grand Prairie (the "mid cities" area) many many times during the sixties and seventies. The Texas & Pacific main is doubled tracked through Grand Prairie right beside Highway 80 and I saw M.O.W. box car X4556 (photo on the T&P site) spotted on a spur near the LTV plant several times.
 
As I recall its color was typical of the T&P rolling stock that was still carrying T&P reporting marks. That is, its box cars, (as well as the M-K-T's for that matter) had a more reddish tint than the other box cars you might see in a typical train.
 
Far be it for me to question Ed Hawkins' freight car knowledge but my recollection would place T&P box cars' color closer to Tuscan than any box car brown paint I've seen or used. If the paints used in the thirties and forties were different, I wouldn't know.
 
FWIW
Frank

--- On Thu, 9/1/11, Jack Burgess <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com> wrote:


From: Jack Burgess <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Texas & Pacific DS box car...
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 1, 2011, 8:06 PM


 



<
<Have you looked at the rolling stock pics on the T&P Railway site?
<
<Try www.texaspacificrailway.org/rolling-stock
<
<Cheers,
<Frank

Thanks Frank...although box car colors are all over the map, it does appear that standard practice was to paint trucks black (and maybe underframes).

Jack Burgess








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank (UNCLASSIFIED)

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I've built one of the NorWest tank cars. It wound up as an Imperial Oil car once I added aftermarket parts and fabricated a number of other parts, also finding small factual errors in the instructions. Another of these kits sits in a box with even more extensive mods started to become a McColl-Frontenac (Texaco's Canadian operation) tank car. I can only echo Pierre's comments about this f*&%$#@ kit. Good thing that I've built these cars for myself. To build them for someone else properly would require more effort than I think any modeller is willing to pay for.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

Lest I go on for hours, I'll restrict myself to 2 onlist;
Sylvan's Canadian Slabside hoppers
NorWest's CC&F tankcar.
The tankcar is almost unbuildable once Brian Pate had someone else do his casting for him.
Both are cars I refuse to undertake for clients.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@> wrote:

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Pierre;

What kits are more "challenging"?

Elden Gatwood


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Like those "kits" from a certain defunct firm in Vancouver, Pierre? I have two of their CPR 2200-series streamlined coaches and a mail-and-express car that I'm fighting with on my workbench. I WILL win, but it'll be a hard-won victory! And a battle looms with one of NorWest's CN ice reefers that I will fight later.

What a loss to the hobby when Al Westerfield stopped making kits! Though I hope that Al enjoys his Very Well-Deserved retirement.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

So I've seen now multiple references to the "difficulties" in building the vinegar tank car kit from Sunshine.
And I can further state without hesitation, that there are other resin kits out there that are far worse and very badly thought out by the kit maker.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@> wrote:

I believe our own Denny Anspach is a veteran of the wars required to build
one of the Sunshine cars.



SGL



If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711





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Re: Challenging Kits to build

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill Welch wrote:
One very nice innovation is Jon Cagle's inclusion of heavy laser scored/cut paper templates to help mark the handrail stanchions on the tank.
It would be easy for the kit purveyor/designer to score the bottom of the tank pattern with its centerline
I agree with Bill that the bottom centerline is a crucial benchmark. But once you have it, you can make a paper strip which wraps around the tank and just meets at the bottom centerline, and then simply mark it for things like handrail stanchion height and end grab iron location. I use that technique on lots of tank projects, not just resin.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Texas & Pacific DS box car...

Jack Burgess
 

<
<Have you looked at the rolling stock pics on the T&P Railway site?
<
<Try www.texaspacificrailway.org/rolling-stock
<
<Cheers,
<Frank

Thanks Frank...although box car colors are all over the map, it does appear that standard practice was to paint trucks black (and maybe underframes).

Jack Burgess


Re: Challenging Kits to build

Bill Welch
 

One very nice innovation is Jon Cagle's inclusion of heavy laser scored/cut paper templates to help mark the handrail stanchions on the tank.

It would be easy for the kit purveyor/designer to score the bottom of the tank pattern with its centerline

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, wdarnaby@... wrote:

Yes, resin tank cars are the most difficult to assemble IMHO.  It easily takes
twice as long as the typical house car.  I have done 'em all, execpt the Norwest
car, with the F&C and Sunsine type 17 being the most recent.  The difficult
parts are in getting the UF centered on the tank and the walkway supports all in
the same plane.  The best advice I can give anybody is assemble the centersill
to the tank as early in the process as possible with 2-56 screws through the
bolster.  Then leave the tank removable as long as possible in the process.  I
wait until the tank bands are secured before gluing the tank to the UF and
bolster support blocks.

Bill Darnaby

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Challenging Kits to build

william darnaby
 

Yes, resin tank cars are the most difficult to assemble IMHO.  It easily takes
twice as long as the typical house car.  I have done 'em all, execpt the Norwest
car, with the F&C and Sunsine type 17 being the most recent.  The difficult
parts are in getting the UF centered on the tank and the walkway supports all in
the same plane.  The best advice I can give anybody is assemble the centersill
to the tank as early in the process as possible with 2-56 screws through the
bolster.  Then leave the tank removable as long as possible in the process.  I
wait until the tank bands are secured before gluing the tank to the UF and
bolster support blocks.

Bill Darnaby


Re: Westerfield Kits - Heinz Vinegar Tank

O Fenton Wells
 

I've built about 20 of the Westerfield with no problems, but then I had a
tough time with the Sunshine Warren tank car. The good thing is that I seem
to be getting better with each one. I actually enjoy them more than the
Branchline or Intermountain kits.
Fenton Wells
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Dennis Williams <pennsy6200@yahoo.com>wrote:

**


I built 5 of them. The 1st was the problem car, after that,, they were
easy. Dennis. WWW.resinbuilders4u.com

On Thu Sep 1st, 2011 7:01 AM PDT Pierre wrote:

So I've seen now multiple references to the "difficulties" in building the
vinegar tank car kit from Sunshine.
While it is indeed not a first timer kit, nor is it a simple kit, I feel
that it is unfairly getting a reputation as a massively difficult kit. I've
now built 3 of them and between reading Bill Darnaby's suggested building
process and just plain thinking it through, 3 rather nice cars have
resulted. If you approach the task logically it's really not that difficult.
And I can further state without hesitation, that there are other resin
kits out there that are far worse and very badly thought out by the kit
maker.
I guess, I'm asking/suggesting that we reconsider "bashing " the vinegar
tank car kit.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
wrote:

I believe our own Denny Anspach is a veteran of the wars required to
build
one of the Sunshine cars.



SGL



If you look on Al's website you will find that Al produced a number of
pickle cars, but no vinegar cars. The Vinegar car that Sunshine produced
is
so complex that even Ted Culotta had a time building it. He did a great
job
with it, but it is not a kit for the newbie to build nor for the faint
hearted.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711





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--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@gmail.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Texas & Pacific DS box car...

O Fenton Wells
 

Ed, would that also apply to the Southern boxcars from the late 1930's
through say 1955? What few color photos I've seen of these cars show them
in a "browner" tone than the Floquil Southern freight car brown. I believe
the Floquil to be more appropiate for the Southern in the 60's and beyond.
I use the Floquil but I overspray with a very thinned black to tone it
down.
That is a very uneducated observation on my part, more of a guess I'm
afraid.
Fenton Wells

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

**



On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Jack Burgess wrote:

I am just starting Sunshine Models' Kit #52.13 for the Texas & Pacific
50000 series double-sheathed box car. The Prototype Data Sheet states
that
these cars were painted boxcar red with a "brown tone". Is Floquil
Southern
Freight Car Brown an acceptable color? Is there a better choice/mix.
Also,
was the underframe painted the same color? And...where the trucks
painted
the same color? I modeling circa 1939 if that makes a difference.
Jack,
I think Southern FC Brown is probably too light. For 1939 I believe
that ATSF Mineral Brown would be a better choice.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@gmail.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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