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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
Bill Welch
Tim
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Your question gets at the heart of just one of the many questions I am trying to sort out about FGE operations. They would have been carrying Cranberries headed west and south, hence possibly the reason for the facility at Oak Brook. (What else were they growing in Conn. and Mass., anyone?) Another seeming anomaly: the B&O had a "Regular, All Year, Initial & Re-Icing" facility at St George on Staten Island. I am trying to figure out what they were growing on Staten Island that the SIRT railroad and the B&O were shipping out. A Reference Librarian at Cornell's Mann Library, their Agricultural Library, is trying to help me with such questions about New York produce. Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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Painting underframes
John F. Cizmar
What is the consensus regarding painting the underside of steam era freight cars? To date, I've painted all grimy black with a touch to a blast of "earthy" weathering.
John F. Cizmar [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
Right! I'd forgotten about the bananas. And yes, potatoes from Maine and
blueberries/cranberries might pass through westbound (although I suspect most long haul westbound and southbound traffic from the New Haven went via the Maybrook gateway). Tim O'Connor
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Mike Del Vecchio wrote:
New York City was also an import point for produce and many other items in society, including many slaughterhouses. Bananas, for example, were huge business, transloaded from ships and put into fleets of reefers.Those bananas weren't iced, though. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: FGE thread and crappy proofreading
MDelvec952
Geepers forgive my english below -- in a hurry to get out of the office.
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Slaughterhouses weren't imported, of course, but there were many around the City. Not much meat originated in New York compared to that which terminated, but some did. ....Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@...> To: STMFC <STMFC@...> Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:56 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York New York City was also an import point for produce and many other items in society, including many slaughterhouses. Bananas, for example, were huge business, transloaded from ships and put into fleets of reefers. ....Mike Del Vecchio -----Original Message----- From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> To: STMFC <STMFC@...> Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:45 pm Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York I'm curious, why would there be an icing station in the Bronx? Wouldn't the Bronx be a -destination- for refrigerator cars, and not so much an origin, or transit point? Was it common to have icing stations at destinations? Tim O'Connor The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
Bryan Busséy
Tim,
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Possibly because that was NH's west-end terminus from which they performed major carfloat operations to New Jersey and other points in the City. bb
On 9/2/2011 3:44 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
MDelvec952
New York City was also an import point for produce and many other items in society, including many slaughterhouses. Bananas, for example, were huge business, transloaded from ships and put into fleets of reefers.
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....Mike Del Vecchio
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> To: STMFC <STMFC@...> Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:45 pm Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York I'm curious, why would there be an icing station in the Bronx? Wouldn't the Bronx be a -destination- for refrigerator cars, and not so much an origin, or transit point? Was it common to have icing stations at destinations? Tim O'Connor The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
I'm curious, why would there be an icing station in the Bronx?
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Wouldn't the Bronx be a -destination- for refrigerator cars, and not so much an origin, or transit point? Was it common to have icing stations at destinations? Tim O'Connor
The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
For Connecticut, I think its pretty save to say the New Haven was in> every county and had a monopoly Not a complete monopoly. The Central Vermont ran all the way to the Connecticut shore, at New London. Tim O'
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
Bryan Busséy
The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting
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Railroad and owner of the LIRR) also operated in Kings County and Queens County as well as New York County. I don't know if there was an FGE icing station in New York City Proper other than Oak Point. bb
On 9/2/2011 2:49 PM, lnbill wrote:
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
Bryan Busséy
Oak Point is in the Bronx.
bb On 9/2/2011 2:49 PM, lnbill wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
Bill Schneider
That's embarrassing... I forgot Maybrook (the O&W interchange... Jeez!)
Oak Point is in the Bronx (New York City). Bill Schneider From: lnbill Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 2:49 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York Yes thanks Byron, I was intending to ask about that. My database of FGE Icing stations shows two Icing locales on the NYNH&H--Maybrook, NY (Regular, Al-Year, Initial & Reicing) and Oak Point, NY (Emergency, Al-Year, Initial & Reicing)--so I thought it must have trackage in New York. Maybrook is in Orange County. I have figured out where Oak Point is yet. Bill Welch --- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, Bryan Busséy <bbussey@...> wrote:
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
Bill Welch
Yes thanks Byron, I was intending to ask about that. My database of FGE Icing stations shows two Icing locales on the NYNH&H--Maybrook, NY (Regular, Al-Year, Initial & Reicing) and Oak Point, NY (Emergency, Al-Year, Initial & Reicing)--so I thought it must have trackage in New York.
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Maybrook is in Orange County. I have figured out where Oak Point is yet. Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., Bryan Busséy <bbussey@...> wrote:
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Diversion Errors
Bob C <thecitrusbelt@...>
Many of you know about "diversions", the system by which shippers were allowed to divert cars in transit with their loads to alternate destinations to obtain a better price for the commodities.
As you can image, there was a lot of telegraphy and paperwork involved in this system. As Richard Hendrickson put it, "Diversions…kept a small army of clerks busy at the keyboards of typewriters and Teletype machines". So what happened when there were diversion errors? Apparently an error resulted in a claim being filed against the errant railroad. Here is an example from the Milwaukee Magazine of October 1928. The magazine was a house organ for that railroad. "Diversion Failure SFRD 16432, 19456 and 70007, fresh vegetables, were forwarded from Hollandale, Minn., September 12, 1927. After cars had been forwarded instructions were received to reconsign car 16432 to Chicago, the other two cars being diverted to St. Louis. However, in handling the instructions, the reconsigning clerk at Blank Yard diverted all three cars to St. Louis, this resulting in claim in the amount of $150.42, representing the difference between the price which could have been obtained at Chicago and the price which was actually obtained at St. Louis." Does anyone have other examples of diversion errors, especially gross errors? Did diversion errors by the railroads always result in monetary claims or were there other remedies for the shippers? Bob Chaparro Moderator Citrus Industry Modeling Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/citrusmodeling/
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Re: Challenging Kits to build
Jim Barnes
Great modeling tip, one that I will definitely use on my tank car builds. Thanks for posting.
Jim Barnes From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2011 3:19 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Challenging Kits to build Bill Welch wrote: One very nice innovation is Jon Cagle's inclusion of heavy laserI agree with Bill that the bottom centerline is a crucial benchmark. But once you have it, you can make a paper strip which wraps around the tank and just meets at the bottom centerline, and then simply mark it for things like handrail stanchion height and end grab iron location. I use that technique on lots of tank projects, not just resin. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
Does the writer mean before Conrail or now?
The Central Vermont ran north from Norwich, CT through Palmer to Brattleboro. The Boston and Albany ran from Boston to Albany with some branch lines, none in Connecticut. Of course the B&M ran from Boston to Troy, Springfield to White River Jct, and other line radiating from Boston. Joel Holmes every county and had a monopoly
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
Bryan Busséy
The NYNH&H also operated in New York: The Maybrook Line (Orange,
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Dutchess) and the Main Line (Westchester, Bronx, Queens, Kings, New York). bb
On 9/2/2011 12:04 PM, Bill Schneider wrote:
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
ROGER HINMAN
For Connecticut, I think its pretty save to say the New Haven was in every county and had a monopoly
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For Massachusetts Barnstable New Haven Plymouth New Haven Bristol New Haven Norfolk New Haven Suffolk New Haven, B&M, B&A Essex B&M Middlesex B&M, New Haven, B&A Worcester B&M, New Haven, B&A Hampden New Haven Hampshire B&M, New Haven, B&A Franklin B&M Berkshire B&M, New Haven, B&A Roger Hinman
--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
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Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
Bill Schneider
Here's a start Bill. I'm sure that others can fill in some blanks.
Bill Schneider Erie Railroad Co. - New York - Nickel Plate – New York - Long Island Railroad Co. – New York – Kings, Bronx, Queens, Nassau, Suffolk Counties New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Co. – Connecticut (all) – Fairfield, Litchfield, New Haven, Middlesex, Hartford, Tolland, New London and Windham counties New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Co. – Massachusetts – Hampden, Berkshire, Barnstaple, Plymouth, Bristol, Norfolk, Suffolk, Middlesex, Worcester, Hampshire. New York, Ontario & Western Railway Co. – New York – Orange, Sullivan, Ulster, Delaware, Ostego, Oneida, Oswego, Rockland Counties (maybe a few smaller ones as well) Pennsylvania Railroad Co. – New York – Chemung, Schuyler, Seneca, Wayne, Cattaraugus, Erie, (maybe others) Staten Island Rapid Transit Ry. - New York – Richmond County (?) ___________________________________________________________ From: Bill Welch Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:18 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York Gentleman: Using the list of FGE contracted railroads from my message # 102650 as a reference, can those of you familiar with the railroads with trackage in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York, please send me a message identifying which ones operated in each of the three states. I know the Long Island Railroad served Suffolk County and the Staten Island Rapid Transit served Staten Island/Richmond County. I realize some may be obvious but in this case I would appreciate it you assume I know nothing. Further, if you know which counties the particular RR's in question served in each state that would be very helpful also. I have USDA info with loadings by county and I am trying to sort out who would have been loading "what" and "when?" Thanks in advance for your help! Bill Welch 2225 Nursery Road; #20-104 Clearwater, FL 33764-7622 727.470.9930 mailto:fgexbill%40tampabay.rr.com
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Lehigh Valley Black Diamond
Ed Hawkins
STMFC members,
Does anyone know the precise size of the LV diamond (point to point dimensions) used on their 52'-6" gondola cars, specifically 32000-32599 (1941-1942) and 32850-33699 (1950 and 1952)? I've scaled a photo and came up with 21" high by 33" long, but I would like to know the official dimension if it's known. Thanks in advance. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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