Date   

Re: PRR Crown Trucks

Bill Welch
 

Thanks Richard & Ben

I will check my stash. I think I have at least one pair of the Walthers truck you reference. I will let you know.

Bill

--- In STMFC@..., Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
"I seldom disagree with Ben, but I'm going to do so in this case.
There were a lot of variations on the Andrews truck design; the so-
called Crown truck was just one of them, despite the PRR's insistence
on calling it by a different name. With their longer wheelbase, huge
journal boxes, and triple springs, the Bowser truck looks VERY 70
tonnish, and I think would be a bad choice for an R7. Walthers once
made a sprung Andrews truck in HO which had the heavy, arched upper
chord characteristic of the Crown/Andrews truck, and that's what I'd
use as an alternative (though I'm not fond of sprung trucks, whose
springs look seriously anemic - but that's fixable by AC-ing some
thin styrene behind the springs). I have a bunch of these, Bill, and
you're welcome to a couple of sets if you decide to go in that
direction."

Here's the link to the product description of the Walthers' Andrews truck:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-1004
and the PRR diagram for reference:
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2d-f2.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=


I agree with Richard that it's a better stand-in than the other Andrews trucks
on the market.  This is the type of choice that I hate making regarding
stand-ins, and it really boils down to which one you dislike less.  In this
case, I'd try both and go with the one that looks best.


Ben Hom


Re: PRR Crown Trucks

Benjamin Hom
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
"I seldom disagree with Ben, but I'm going to do so in this case.
There were a lot of variations on the Andrews truck design; the so-
called Crown truck was just one of them, despite the PRR's insistence
on calling it by a different name. With their longer wheelbase, huge
journal boxes, and triple springs, the Bowser truck looks VERY 70
tonnish, and I think would be a bad choice for an R7. Walthers once
made a sprung Andrews truck in HO which had the heavy, arched upper
chord characteristic of the Crown/Andrews truck, and that's what I'd
use as an alternative (though I'm not fond of sprung trucks, whose
springs look seriously anemic - but that's fixable by AC-ing some
thin styrene behind the springs). I have a bunch of these, Bill, and
you're welcome to a couple of sets if you decide to go in that
direction."

Here's the link to the product description of the Walthers' Andrews truck:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-1004
and the PRR diagram for reference:
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2d-f2.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=


I agree with Richard that it's a better stand-in than the other Andrews trucks
on the market.  This is the type of choice that I hate making regarding
stand-ins, and it really boils down to which one you dislike less.  In this
case, I'd try both and go with the one that looks best.


Ben Hom


Re: PRR Crown Trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 9, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
"Given that "Crown" trucks are essentially Andrews truck, would one
of the many
50 ton Andrews trucks serve as a better substitute?"

Not really. The Crown sideframe is a bit "beefier" along the top
chord than the
Andrews sideframe. Diagrams for comparison:
2D-F2 (Crown)
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2d-
f2.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=

2D-F3 (Andrews)
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2D-F3-
E69407.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=

It comes down to what bothers you more about the stand-ins - the
longer
wheelbase and different spring package of the 70-ton Crown truck,
or the
different sideframe of the Andrews truck. IMHO, the Bowser truck
at least looks
like a Crown truck.
I seldom disagree with Ben, but I'm going to do so in this case.
There were a lot of variations on the Andrews truck design; the so-
called Crown truck was just one of them, despite the PRR's insistence
on calling it by a different name. With their longer wheelbase, huge
journal boxes, and triple springs, the Bowser truck looks VERY 70
tonnish, and I think would be a bad choice for an R7. Walthers once
made a sprung Andrews truck in HO which had the heavy, arched upper
chord characteristic of the Crown/Andrews truck, and that's what I'd
use as an alternative (though I'm not fond of sprung trucks, whose
springs look seriously anemic - but that's fixable by AC-ing some
thin styrene behind the springs). I have a bunch of these, Bill, and
you're welcome to a couple of sets if you decide to go in that
direction.

Richard Hendrickson


MDT Type 3, Type 4, and Type 5 reefers

Bill Welch
 

Gentleman:

If I understand Roger Hinman's classification system correctly the
MDT Type 5 cars, their final group of wood-sheathed reefers, are
represented by both kit #'s 20.1 and 20.4 from Sunshine, correct?

Does the Rutland Car Shop kit represent the Type 3 MDT reefer?

Is there any word on when the Type 4 model under development may
become available?

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...


Re: PRR Crown Trucks

Bill Welch
 

Ben & Bruce:

This a very subjective observation I will admit, but to my eye the Crown truck also looks more "slab sided" or squared along it edges that the typical Andrews. Somewhere in my stash, however I think I have a set of brass Andrews that have the slab appearance.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:


"Given that "Crown" trucks are essentially Andrews truck, would one of the many
50 ton Andrews trucks serve as a better substitute?"

Not really.  The Crown sideframe is a bit "beefier" along the top chord than the
Andrews sideframe.  Diagrams for comparison:
2D-F2 (Crown)
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2d-f2.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=

2D-F3 (Andrews)
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2D-F3-E69407.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=


It comes down to what bothers you more about the stand-ins - the longer
wheelbase and different spring package of the 70-ton Crown truck, or the
different sideframe of the Andrews truck.  IMHO, the Bowser truck at least looks
like a Crown truck.


Ben Hom


Re: Yardmaster 1937 AAR reappears

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 9, 2011, at 9:39 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Bob Sterner wrote

I'm missing the way Branchline gave dates on their web listings. What
are the dates of the paint schemes of the new Atlas offerings of
the former
Branchline Yardmaster '37 car?

FEC -- 1961 is the earliest date I have
MEC -- mid 1950's
NP -- the 48" emblem appeared after 1948
ATSF -- late 1950's I think
UP -- 8/1956 to 1963
The "giant herald" scheme for Santa Fe house cars first appeared in
1959, so barely qualifies under the STMFC time limits.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: PRR Crown Trucks

Benjamin Hom
 

"Given that "Crown" trucks are essentially Andrews truck, would one of the many
50 ton Andrews trucks serve as a better substitute?"

Not really.  The Crown sideframe is a bit "beefier" along the top chord than the
Andrews sideframe.  Diagrams for comparison:
2D-F2 (Crown)
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2d-f2.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=

2D-F3 (Andrews)
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2D-F3-E69407.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=


It comes down to what bothers you more about the stand-ins - the longer
wheelbase and different spring package of the 70-ton Crown truck, or the
different sideframe of the Andrews truck.  IMHO, the Bowser truck at least looks
like a Crown truck.


Ben Hom


Re: PRR Crown Trucks

Bruce Smith
 

Ben, Bill,

Given that "Crown" trucks are essentially Andrews truck, would one of the many 50 ton Andrews trucks serve as a better substitute?

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Sep 9, 2011, at 10:29 AM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Bill Welch asked:
"Given there is no alternative, is the Bowser truck a good stand-in for the
50-ton truck?"

It'll have to. The general appearance is very similar; however, the biggest
difference between the two trucks is the wheelbase. The 50-ton truck has a 5 ft
6 in wheelbase and two visible springs; the 70-ton truck has a 5 ft 10 in
wheelbase and three visible springs.
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2d-f2.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=

http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2f-f1.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=



Ben Hom



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Yardmaster 1937 AAR reappears

Bob Sterner
 

Thanks, all, and I accidentally left off the CP script car from my list.

Bob Sterner

--- In STMFC@..., William Keene <wakeene@...> wrote:

Hello Group,

For the ATSF '37 box car... 1959 and later.

Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 9, 2011, at 9:39 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Bob Sterner wrote

I'm missing the way Branchline gave dates on their web listings. What
are the dates of the paint schemes of the new Atlas offerings of the former
Branchline Yardmaster '37 car?

FEC -- 1961 is the earliest date I have
MEC -- mid 1950's
NP -- the 48" emblem appeared after 1948
ATSF -- late 1950's I think
UP -- 8/1956 to 1963



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Yardmaster 1937 AAR reappears

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello Group,

For the ATSF '37 box car... 1959 and later.

Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Sep 9, 2011, at 9:39 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Bob Sterner wrote

I'm missing the way Branchline gave dates on their web listings. What
are the dates of the paint schemes of the new Atlas offerings of the former
Branchline Yardmaster '37 car?

FEC -- 1961 is the earliest date I have
MEC -- mid 1950's
NP -- the 48" emblem appeared after 1948
ATSF -- late 1950's I think
UP -- 8/1956 to 1963


Re: Yardmaster 1937 AAR reappears

Tim O'Connor
 

Bob Sterner wrote

I'm missing the way Branchline gave dates on their web listings. What
are the dates of the paint schemes of the new Atlas offerings of the former
Branchline Yardmaster '37 car?

FEC -- 1961 is the earliest date I have
MEC -- mid 1950's
NP -- the 48" emblem appeared after 1948
ATSF -- late 1950's I think
UP -- 8/1956 to 1963


Re: PRR Crown Trucks

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Welch asked:
"Given there is no alternative, is the Bowser truck a good stand-in for the
50-ton truck?"

It'll have to.  The general appearance is very similar; however, the biggest
difference between the two trucks is the wheelbase.  The 50-ton truck has a 5 ft
6 in wheelbase and two visible springs; the 70-ton truck has a 5 ft 10 in
wheelbase and three visible springs.
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2d-f2.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=

http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2f-f1.gif&sel=ftk&sz=sm&fr=



Ben Hom


Re: PRR Crown Trucks

Bill Welch
 

Thank you Ben for giving me more accurate information. Given there is no alternative, is the Bowser truck a good stand-in for the 50-ton truck.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Bill Welch wrote:
"Some groups of the PRR R7 reefer were built with their "Crown
Trucks," which seems like overkill if they used the same 70-ton
version designed for their open top cars. From what I can tell these
trucks were otherwise used only for hoppers cars. Am I correct about
this?"

Not really.  The Crown trucks used for Class R7 were a 50-ton version (Class
2D-F2).



"Does anyone know why the Pennsy used this truck on the R7's?"

Probably because it was a 50-ton truck that they liked at the time.  According
to a Truck Classification tracing dated 6/23/1922 (Revised 1/18/1923), these
trucks were found on the following classes of cars:
FM, GLA, GP, GPA, GS, GSA, GSC, GSD, GR, GRA, H21, H22, K7, KF, KFA, R7, RF, XL,
XLA, XLB, XLC, XM, X23, X24, X25, X25A
http://prr.railfan.net/trucks/D70003-B.pdf

Disclaimer: PRR Truck Classification documents show which classes had a given
truck; they do not show which or how many cars were equipped with that truck
(except in one case in a 1962 list - Class X29 express boxcars equipped with GSC
trucks).


"Bowser makes the only version of this in 1/87th, correct?"

Yes, but (in a reversal of what's normally encountered for HO scale trucks until
recently), it is not a 50-ton truck.


Ben Hom


Re: Yardmaster 1937 AAR reappears

Dave Sarther
 

Bob,

This is great news. Thanks for sharing. I placed an order today for some parts I needed.

Later, Dave S. Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Sterner <rwsterner@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2011 5:03 am
Subject: [STMFC] Yardmaster 1937 AAR reappears





I'm missing the way Branchline gave dates on their web listings. What are the dates of the paint schemes of the new Atlas offerings of the former Branchline Yardmaster '37 car?

FEC
MEC
NP
ATSF
UP

http://www.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/ho1937boxcar.htm

Also, it was pointed out on another list that Atlas is now offering the former Branchline parts, which is good news indeed.

https://secure.atlasrr.com/mod1/items.asp?Cc=BLPARTS

Bob Sterner
St. Paul, MN


Re: Yardmaster 1937 AAR reappears

npin53
 

The steel NP box car, with a 60' Monad and "Mainstreet" slogan, would have been re-painted starting about 1951.

Aaron

--- In STMFC@..., "Bob Sterner" <rwsterner@...> wrote:

I'm missing the way Branchline gave dates on their web listings. What are the dates of the paint schemes of the new Atlas offerings of the former Branchline Yardmaster '37 car?

FEC
MEC
NP
ATSF
UP

http://www.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/ho1937boxcar.htm

Also, it was pointed out on another list that Atlas is now offering the former Branchline parts, which is good news indeed.

https://secure.atlasrr.com/mod1/items.asp?Cc=BLPARTS

Bob Sterner
St. Paul, MN


Re: PRR Crown Trucks

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Welch wrote:
"Some groups of the PRR R7 reefer were built with their "Crown
Trucks," which seems like overkill if they used the same 70-ton
version designed for their open top cars. From what I can tell these
trucks were otherwise used only for hoppers cars. Am I correct about
this?"

Not really.  The Crown trucks used for Class R7 were a 50-ton version (Class
2D-F2).



"Does anyone know why the Pennsy used this truck on the R7's?"

Probably because it was a 50-ton truck that they liked at the time.  According
to a Truck Classification tracing dated 6/23/1922 (Revised 1/18/1923), these
trucks were found on the following classes of cars:
FM, GLA, GP, GPA, GS, GSA, GSC, GSD, GR, GRA, H21, H22, K7, KF, KFA, R7, RF, XL,
XLA, XLB, XLC, XM, X23, X24, X25, X25A
http://prr.railfan.net/trucks/D70003-B.pdf

Disclaimer: PRR Truck Classification documents show which classes had a given
truck; they do not show which or how many cars were equipped with that truck
(except in one case in a 1962 list - Class X29 express boxcars equipped with GSC
trucks).


"Bowser makes the only version of this in 1/87th, correct?"

Yes, but (in a reversal of what's normally encountered for HO scale trucks until
recently), it is not a 50-ton truck.


Ben Hom


PRR Crown Trucks

Bill Welch
 

Some groups of the PRR R7 reefer were built with their "Crown
Trucks," which seems like overkill if they used the same 70-ton
version designed for their open top cars. From what I can tell these
trucks were otherwise used only for hoppers cars. Am I correct about
this?

Does anyone know why the Pennsy used this truck on the R7's?

Bowser makes the only version of this in 1/87th, correct?

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...


Re: Yardmaster 1937 AAR reappears

Andy Laurent
 

It is tough to see in the zoom-artwork, but looks like:

FEC - '?0
MEC - '54
NP - '41
ATSF - '62
UP - '57

Andy L.

--- In STMFC@..., "Bob Sterner" <rwsterner@...> wrote:

I'm missing the way Branchline gave dates on their web listings. What are the dates of the paint schemes of the new Atlas offerings of the former Branchline Yardmaster '37 car?

FEC
MEC
NP
ATSF
UP

http://www.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/ho1937boxcar.htm

Also, it was pointed out on another list that Atlas is now offering the former Branchline parts, which is good news indeed.

https://secure.atlasrr.com/mod1/items.asp?Cc=BLPARTS

Bob Sterner
St. Paul, MN


Yardmaster 1937 AAR reappears

Bob Sterner
 

I'm missing the way Branchline gave dates on their web listings. What are the dates of the paint schemes of the new Atlas offerings of the former Branchline Yardmaster '37 car?

FEC
MEC
NP
ATSF
UP

http://www.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/ho1937boxcar.htm

Also, it was pointed out on another list that Atlas is now offering the former Branchline parts, which is good news indeed.

https://secure.atlasrr.com/mod1/items.asp?Cc=BLPARTS

Bob Sterner
St. Paul, MN


Re: ORER help

Gene <mopac1@...>
 

Thanks to Brian, Richard, Steffan, Ed & Rich for providing me the ORER information I was seeking. It allowed me to finish the equipment section of my A.R.T. book.

Gene Semon

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