Date   

Black hinges on PFE reefers

Paul Catapano
 

Thank you all who contributed.

Paul Catapano


Re: ATLX comparison

Clark Propst
 

Doug, Alls I know about tank cars is they're black tubes on wheels. So, like most of my modeling I pick features on the prototype I can transfer to the model in hopes of having it look somewhat like the real thing.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Harding" <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Clark, saw the photos when posted, been waiting for commentary, but no
message came forth about the photo or what you did. I doubt many knew it was
there.

It looks like you captured the appearance of the car.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bettendorf Comapny

earlyrail
 


According to Terry Metcalf's book, UP assembled 300 flat cars using
underframes from Bettendorf and that a photo of this frame appears in the
1943 CBC on page 379. Does anyone have that edition and be willing to scan
that page and send me a copy? (I am working on a Bettendorf presentation
for Lisle/Naperville.)

Thanks in advance.

Steve Hile
Steve, Are you including the Bettendorf tank cars in your presentation?
I am interested in these, but will not be attending this year.

Howard Garner


Re: ATLX comparison

Douglas Harding
 

Clark, saw the photos when posted, been waiting for commentary, but no
message came forth about the photo or what you did. I doubt many knew it was
there. Your notes on the photo indicate removal of rivet lines in some
locations and placement of rivet lines in other locations to better follow
the prototype along with some other detail changes.



It looks like you captured the appearance of the car.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn

s shaffer
 

Well I got it three more times since it was quoted fully in your replies.

Thanks, Tom for not sending it along again.

Steve Shaffer


Re: Black Hinges on PFE Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Model manufacturers often paint the side door hooks Black, but I believe they were Orange.
> Dick Harley

Dick, a builder photo of R-40-10 PFE 42225 definitely shows black door hooks.
A 1920's builder photo of R-40-13 PFE 35474 appears to show orange hooks, with
a shadow as you described. So at least for a time in the 1930's, the hooks got
black paint -- but this exhausts my PFE ice reefer builder photos collection. :-)

Tim O'Connor


Re: PRR Crown Trucks

Tim O'Connor
 

PRR also applied Crown trucks to X53 insulated box cars! There's
a photo of PRR 21048 on rrpicturearchives.net riding on Crown trucks
in 1974.

Tim O'Connor

Any photo of a PRR H39a will show Crown trucks in use on cars built post 1957. The
H39 class cars were built by outside vendors (Bethlehem, Greenville, etc.) with
ASF Type A-3 trucks while the H39a were built in the PRR Sam Rea shops circa 1959-60
and rode on recycled crown trucks salvaged from scraped H21a family of cars.

Rich Orr


Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

I am tired of receiving them in my PERSONAL mail.

--
Thanks!

Brian Paul Ehni

From: Bob Miller <cajonpass02@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 09:54:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn






Am I the only one getting tired of being invited to join someone's LinkedIn
network. This sort of post has no place on this list.


Robert J. Miller CFA
Saginaw, MI

"An architect's most useful tools are an eraser at the drafting board, and a
wrecking bar at the site." - Frank Lloyd Wright

Read more:
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/f/frank_lloyd_wright.html#ixzz1J9z
QvpoX

--- On Sat, 9/10/11, Riley Kinney via LinkedIn <riley050748@gmail.com
<mailto:riley050748%40gmail.com> > wrote:

From: Riley Kinney via LinkedIn <riley050748@gmail.com
<mailto:riley050748%40gmail.com> >
Subject: [STMFC] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
To: "Larry Wolohon" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, September 10, 2011, 4:46 PM



LinkedIn
------------

Riley Kinney requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:

------------------------------------------

Larry,

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Riley

Accept invitation from Riley Kinney
http://www.linkedin.com/e/osda28-gsf2elw7-31/uf3vgTVM5ivqM07uRgy_aDkYlmTRjQ1
DkW/blk/I136460427_110/6lColZJrmZznQNdhjRQnOpBtn9QfmhBt71BoSd1p65Lr6lOfP0Ncl
YTczgMdzgScP59bT4MdkVWsCh7bP0Oe3wVdPwRcjgLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/?hs=fals
e&tok=1H3E7C56S-C4U1

View invitation from Riley Kinney
http://www.linkedin.com/e/osda28-gsf2elw7-31/uf3vgTVM5ivqM07uRgy_aDkYlmTRjQ1
DkW/blk/I136460427_110/c34NnPsOd30Sd3oPckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/?hs=false&tok=1Y
5JM-VhO-C4U1
------------------------------------------

DID YOU KNOW LinkedIn can help you find the right service providers using
recommendations from your trusted network? Using LinkedIn Services, you can
take the risky guesswork out of selecting service providers by reading the
recommendations of credible, trustworthy members of your network.
http://www.linkedin.com/e/osda28-gsf2elw7-31/svp/inv-25/?hs=false&tok=1ipkKb
3wS-C4U1

--
(c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Black Hinges on PFE Reefers

Dick Harley
 

On Sun Sep 11, 2011 Paul Catapano asked about black hardware on PFE reefers.

I'm sitting in the Portland airport, waiting for a flight home from the SPH&TS meet, and was reading Yahoo Groups.

In addition to what Richard said, black was the paint used by PFE (and other railroads) on most metal parts, up thru the 1940s. Apparently it was the most rust resistant paint at that time. PFE started the practice before 1928 (where my own PFE paint scheme chart starts).

Here's a summary of PFE's use of Black on metal parts for ice reefers:

- End hardware was always Metalic or FC Red.
- Flexible metal roofs and hatch parts changed from Black to FC Red (Metalic) in Jan. 1936.
- Solid steel roofs (beginning in 1932) were never painted Black.
- Side Hardware and corner steps changed from Black to Orange in Jan. 1949.
Center steps and steel car side sill tabs were still Black.
- Center steps and steel car side sill tabs changed from Black to Orange in June 1951.
- Underframe and trucks remained Black until the end of PFE ownership.

These were PFE painting standards shown on drawings for all ice reefers.

Model manufacturers often paint the side door hooks Black, but I believe they were Orange. They look dark in photos due to shadows. I have not fully researched that.

Hinges were oiled, and dirt did accumulate on the excess oil. So even after hinges were painted Orange, they often show a lot of dark dirt in photos.


Hope this helps,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


Re: Black Hinges on PFE Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:12 PM, Paul Catapano wrote:

I have seen several models of PFE reefers with black hinges, and
many without. Was it a PFE policy to paint hinges black, or was
this a discoloration that showed up black in photos,

-OR-

Am I just seeing models with black hinges, a color scheme not based
on fact.

Additionally if PFE did paint hinge hardware black, when did they
begin and end this policy?
And finally was it system wide, or was this limited to particular
shopped cars (IE., cars shopped in specific places).
Paul, Tony Thompson should answer this, but he's on the road today en
route home from the Southern Pacific Historical Society meeting in
Portland OR, so I'll summarize the information in his PFE book.
Hinges and other side hardware (grab irons, ladders, door latches,
etc.) were painted black prior to 1949. After that, they were the
same yellow-orange color as the car side. This practice was system
wide and did not vary from shop to shop. So it depends entirely on
when the car was painted or repainted.

Richard Hendrickson


Black Hinges on PFE Reefers

Paul Catapano
 

I have seen several models of PFE reefers with black hinges, and many without. Was it a PFE policy to paint hinges black, or was this a discoloration that showed up black in photos,
 
-OR-
 
Am I just seeing models with black hinges, a color scheme not based on fact.
 
Additionally if PFE did paint hinge hardware black, when did they begin and end this policy?
And finally was it system wide, or was this limited to particular shopped cars (IE., cars shopped in specific places).
 


Paul Catapano
Happy "Remembrance Day"


Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn

tmolsen@...
 

Bob,

You are not alone. I get this stuff all the time. It has become a nuisance and you are right, it has no business coming through on this list.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn

Peter Ness
 

Hi Robert,
No, I'm getting them too. It would seem that whoever "Larry" is, that Riley Kinney is trying to contact, has some kind of STMFC or yahoo mail address so that the message is somehow bounced into STMFC. I wish it would stop, too.

Regards,
Peter Ness

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Miller
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn



Am I the only one getting tired of being invited to join someone's LinkedIn network. This sort of post has no place on this list.


Robert J. Miller CFA
Saginaw, MI

"An architect's most useful tools are an eraser at the drafting board, and a wrecking bar at the site." - Frank Lloyd Wright

Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/f/frank_lloyd_wright.html#ixzz1J9zQvpoX

--- On Sat, 9/10/11, Riley Kinney via LinkedIn <riley050748@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Riley Kinney via LinkedIn <riley050748@gmail.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
To: "Larry Wolohon" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, September 10, 2011, 4:46 PM



LinkedIn
------------

Riley Kinney requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:

------------------------------------------

Larry,

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Riley

Accept invitation from Riley Kinney
http://www.linkedin.com/e/osda28-gsf2elw7-31/uf3vgTVM5ivqM07uRgy_aDkYlmTRjQ1DkW/blk/I136460427_110/6lColZJrmZznQNdhjRQnOpBtn9QfmhBt71BoSd1p65Lr6lOfP0NclYTczgMdzgScP59bT4MdkVWsCh7bP0Oe3wVdPwRcjgLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/?hs=false&tok=1H3E7C56S-C4U1

View invitation from Riley Kinney
http://www.linkedin.com/e/osda28-gsf2elw7-31/uf3vgTVM5ivqM07uRgy_aDkYlmTRjQ1DkW/blk/I136460427_110/c34NnPsOd30Sd3oPckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/?hs=false&tok=1Y5JM-VhO-C4U1
------------------------------------------

DID YOU KNOW LinkedIn can help you find the right service providers using recommendations from your trusted network? Using LinkedIn Services, you can take the risky guesswork out of selecting service providers by reading the recommendations of credible, trustworthy members of your network.
http://www.linkedin.com/e/osda28-gsf2elw7-31/svp/inv-25/?hs=false&tok=1ipkKb3wS-C4U1

--
(c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn

Robert J Miller CFA
 

Am I the only one getting tired of being invited to join someone's LinkedIn network. This sort of post has no place on this list.



 
Robert J. Miller CFA
Saginaw, MI
 
"An architect's most useful tools are an eraser at the drafting board, and a wrecking bar at the site." - Frank Lloyd Wright  


Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/f/frank_lloyd_wright.html#ixzz1J9zQvpoX

--- On Sat, 9/10/11, Riley Kinney via LinkedIn <riley050748@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Riley Kinney via LinkedIn <riley050748@gmail.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
To: "Larry Wolohon" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, September 10, 2011, 4:46 PM


 



LinkedIn
------------

Riley Kinney requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:

------------------------------------------

Larry,

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Riley

Accept invitation from Riley Kinney
http://www.linkedin.com/e/osda28-gsf2elw7-31/uf3vgTVM5ivqM07uRgy_aDkYlmTRjQ1DkW/blk/I136460427_110/6lColZJrmZznQNdhjRQnOpBtn9QfmhBt71BoSd1p65Lr6lOfP0NclYTczgMdzgScP59bT4MdkVWsCh7bP0Oe3wVdPwRcjgLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/?hs=false&tok=1H3E7C56S-C4U1

View invitation from Riley Kinney
http://www.linkedin.com/e/osda28-gsf2elw7-31/uf3vgTVM5ivqM07uRgy_aDkYlmTRjQ1DkW/blk/I136460427_110/c34NnPsOd30Sd3oPckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/?hs=false&tok=1Y5JM-VhO-C4U1
------------------------------------------

DID YOU KNOW LinkedIn can help you find the right service providers using recommendations from your trusted network? Using LinkedIn Services, you can take the risky guesswork out of selecting service providers by reading the recommendations of credible, trustworthy members of your network.
http://www.linkedin.com/e/osda28-gsf2elw7-31/svp/inv-25/?hs=false&tok=1ipkKb3wS-C4U1

--
(c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: N&W B-3

Randy Hammill
 

Thanks, Tim-

Yeah, I got one of the B-4's from Ted. It's the Murphy panel roof as he's out of the round roof ones.

Randy
http://newbritainstation.com
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Randy, not a B-3, but Pocahontas Models produced a resin kit for
an N&W B-4/B-4A, which was later acquired by Speedwitch and released
as kits K115.1/K115.2.

The B-4 is just so weird looking it cries out to be modeled. :-)

Tim O'Connor




At 9/10/2011 02:49 PM Saturday, you wrote:
Bummer. The door opening is about 12 1/2'. So the side panels don't line up properly. Which means the Bowser wouldn't work either.

So the question is whether I really care, or if I want to scrape off the rivets and replace them with Archer rivets. That might be a better project for the Bowser car.

I'll have to see how I want to proceed with this project. So has anybody released an accurate B-3? I really want to model this car since I have the photo of it sitting in what amounts to the middle of my layout.

Thanks for the info and links to the photos. They will be a big help in figuring this out.

Randy Hammill
http://newbritainstation.com
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1953


SP F-70-7 flat car kits

George Corral <g.corral@...>
 

Hi Andy,

I need 4 of the Red Caboose SP F-70-7 flat car kits. Do you have 4?

George


Re: PRR Crown Trucks

bob_karig <karig@...>
 

I can find no evidence that trucks with separable journal boxes were banned in interchange anytime during the steam era.

In fact, if you go to rule 17 in the 1957 code, you will find that, "The substitution of integral for nonintegral types (of sideframes) is permitted." This certainly implies that nonintegral types of side frames were permitted in interchange. This rule reads the same in 1962.

I suspect the 1957 reference stems from the banning of "I", "T", and "L" section side frames. Specifically, 3 (t) (3-b). "Effective January 1, 1956, cast-steel side frames having "I", "T" or "L" section compression or tension members, prohibited under all cars. From owners. Effective January 1, 1957, this requirement will apply to all cars in interchange."

Since a large number of side-frames with separable journal boxes were produced prior to the introduction of "U" section side frames, this would have cleared them off the road. Note also, that these earlier side frames were narrower and therefore not as strong.

This rule would have also cleared out the old "T" section Bettendorf side frames, so it wasn't just limited to nonintegral side frames.

However, a large number of sideframes with separable journal boxes would have survived. Examples include the USRA side frame, the first ARA "standard" truck with separable journal boxes, and "U" section Vulcan side frames.

Bob Karig


Re: UP Flat Car F-50-10

Tom Birkett <tnbirke@...>
 

Steve



I have it and will fire up the scanner afet church this afternoon.

Tom Birkett

Bartlesville, OK



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 9:49 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] UP Flat Car F-50-10





According to Terry Metcalf's book, UP assembled 300 flat cars using
underframes from Bettendorf and that a photo of this frame appears in the
1943 CBC on page 379. Does anyone have that edition and be willing to scan
that page and send me a copy? (I am working on a Bettendorf presentation
for Lisle/Naperville.)

Thanks in advance.

Steve Hile


UP Flat Car F-50-10

Steve and Barb Hile
 

According to Terry Metcalf's book, UP assembled 300 flat cars using
underframes from Bettendorf and that a photo of this frame appears in the
1943 CBC on page 379. Does anyone have that edition and be willing to scan
that page and send me a copy? (I am working on a Bettendorf presentation
for Lisle/Naperville.)



Thanks in advance.



Steve Hile


Re: PRR Crown Trucks

SUVCWORR@...
 

Any photo of a PRR H39a will show Crown trucks in use on cars built post 1957. The H39 class cars were built by outside vendors (Bethlehem, Greenville, etc.) with ASF Type A-3 trucks while the H39a were built in the PRR Sam Rea shops circa 1959-60 and rode on recycled crown trucks salvaged from scraped H21a family of cars.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: brian <brianleppert@att.net>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 10, 2011 11:42 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR Crown Trucks


Tim, see Guy Wilbur's post #44071. He gives the date for T, L, and I sideframe
ban as Jan. 1, 1957.

Andrews and Vulcan trucks could be made with either L or U section side frames.
The U section versions would have survived past 1957. But then, if photos can't
be found...

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV





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