Date   
Re: Kadee Bracket Grab Iron Hole Locations

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I'm glad you posted Paul, as I have yet to receive Dennis' post on this
(Thank you Yahoo . . .)



I have what might be an ignorant question: Is the vertical dimension
between the two grabs at the left end of the car side uniform from car to
car? And is the dimension from the bottom of the car side a uniform
dimension from one car to another?





SGL



From: Paul Lyons
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 1:54 PM

Dennis,
Thanks for all the effort! I hope you have the dimension between the
mounting pin holes on the side grabs and just forgot to put it on the
drawing? Or perhaps, it is the same dimension as the end grab?
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@... <mailto:destorzek%40mchsi.com> >
To: STMFC <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 8:49 am
Subject: [STMFC] Kadee Bracket Grab Iron Hole Locations

As Promised, I have surveyed the mounting holes on a Kadee PS-1 body and
have uploaded dimensioned sketches to the FILES section at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Kadee_PS-1_Grab_Iron_Holes/

All dimensions are decimal inches, to four places where necessary. The
ordinate dimensions are relative to the center of the grab iron; it is up to
whoever develops a drilling jig to properly relate them to other features on
the car body.

The first sheet also shows the typical condition at the mounting pin / hole
interface. Whoever devised the old joke about putting a square peg in a
round hole obviously didn't design plastic parts, because that is exactly
what Kadee has done. The mounting pegs are .017" squares with a long tapered
lead; they are designed to be pressed into .020" diameter holes. A look at
the drawing shows that this combination yields appx. .002" of interference
at the corners of the peg, while the unfilled portions of the hole provide a
place for the displaced material.This is good design practice, but it does
point out that the grabs must be properly oriented before they are pressed
in place; ones the corners dig into the circumference of the hole, it will
be either difficult or impossible to twist them straight. If this is a
problem, the holes can be increased to .024" diameter, and CA used to fill
the gaps and lock the mounting peg in place.

Those who were hoping to use the really fine Kadee boxcar ladders on other
projects are going to be disappointed, unless they have a drill that drills
rectangular holes. Kadee has chosen, wisely, as far as I'm concerned, to
make the mounting pegs rectangular, .024" x .044". This allows a much
stronger mounting than round pegs could provide, and ensures that the
ladders remain straight, but the difficulty of generating the rectangular
slots in a model that wasn't molded with them in place is going to preclude
using these ladders on other projects. Because of this, I haven't bothered
to post the slot dimensions.

These are indeed wonderful parts. The grab irons and ladder rungs measure
just .010" in diameter, smaller than the .012" wire that is commonly used in
HO scale for these parts. The minimum diameter for these parts on the
prototype is 5/8", which scales to .007", but some prototype parts are made
from larger stock. The Kadee rung scale to just a bit larger than 7/8", not
far from the mark.

Dennis Storzek










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Re: Odd Box Car?

Tim O'Connor
 

Steve

An SP car numbered 61843 in 1937 would have been a 50 foot single sheathed
automobile box car. Is that what you saw?

Tim O'Connor

While looking though the November, 1937 issue of Railroad Magazine, I spotted this tidbit on page 130:

Boxcar No. 61843 bearing both SP oval and Wabash initial turned up here. stenciled on the side was "Leased from Wabash from the Sou. Pac. Ry." it is used exclusively for carrying auto parts out of Detroit.---RAY DUNIGAN,996 Link Ave., Springfield, O.

Anyone out there have a photo of this car or want to try to model this car?

Steve Vallee

Re: B&O M-53 was Re: B&O, GM&N

O Fenton Wells
 

Great photo John. This brings up an interesting question for a novice
freight car fan. The picture shows a New Haven boxcar. I was told by
someone that the doors on these cars were painted black. This one is not.
Do I have incorrect info? Any knowledgeable NH fans out there that can set
me straight?
Fenton Wells
On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 2:11 PM, boyds1949 <e27ca@...> wrote:

**


Here is a link to a photo in (I think)the University of Indiana collection
showing an M-26 in the first 13 great states lettering. In this case, the
color is definitely a version of the oxide red.

http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P06941.jpg

I have a slide, taken in 1946 at Brunswick, that shows a couple of M-15s in
the same lettering but in what appears to be brown paint. I guess it
depended on how much old paint was still in the barrel.

John King

--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:


The "red" paint began with the 13 great states lettering scheme in 1946.
These cars are in the second run scheduled for release in the Spring of
2012.

Rich Orr



-----Original Message-----
From: Don <riverman_vt@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 12:07 pm
Subject: B&O M-53 was Re: [STMFC] B&O, GM&N



--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@ wrote:
Regarding the B&O M-53 -- the brown color is correct for the paint
schemes for
hich it is used Pre WWII and during the war. The red color was adopted
post
WII and is being used by FVM with the appropriate P/L schemes.

The brown cars did run into the 50's until being repainted.

Equally important for those of us modeling the mid to late 1940's
pproximately when was the brighter red first used? I, too, have noted the
ifference and it can add variety to a freight train but I do not wish to
use it
nd than find it did not come into general use until after 1948.
Thanks for any assistance, Don Valentine

------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Individual Email | Traditional
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
@srrfan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

B&O M-53 was Re: B&O, GM&N

boyds1949
 

Here is a link to a photo in (I think)the University of Indiana collection showing an M-26 in the first 13 great states lettering. In this case, the color is definitely a version of the oxide red.


http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P06941.jpg

I have a slide, taken in 1946 at Brunswick, that shows a couple of M-15s in the same lettering but in what appears to be brown paint. I guess it depended on how much old paint was still in the barrel.

John King

--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:


The "red" paint began with the 13 great states lettering scheme in 1946. These cars are in the second run scheduled for release in the Spring of 2012.

Rich Orr



-----Original Message-----
From: Don <riverman_vt@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 12:07 pm
Subject: B&O M-53 was Re: [STMFC] B&O, GM&N



--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@ wrote:
Regarding the B&O M-53 -- the brown color is correct for the paint schemes for
hich it is used Pre WWII and during the war. The red color was adopted post
WII and is being used by FVM with the appropriate P/L schemes.

The brown cars did run into the 50's until being repainted.

Equally important for those of us modeling the mid to late 1940's
pproximately when was the brighter red first used? I, too, have noted the
ifference and it can add variety to a freight train but I do not wish to use it
nd than find it did not come into general use until after 1948.
Thanks for any assistance, Don Valentine

------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Individual Email | Traditional
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Re: Kadee Bracket Grab Iron Hole Locations

Paul Lyons
 

Dennis,
Thanks for all the effort! I hope you have the dimension between the mounting pin holes on the side grabs and just forgot to put it on the drawing? Or perhaps, it is the same dimension as the end grab?
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 8:49 am
Subject: [STMFC] Kadee Bracket Grab Iron Hole Locations




As Promised, I have surveyed the mounting holes on a Kadee PS-1 body and have uploaded dimensioned sketches to the FILES section at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Kadee_PS-1_Grab_Iron_Holes/

All dimensions are decimal inches, to four places where necessary. The ordinate dimensions are relative to the center of the grab iron; it is up to whoever develops a drilling jig to properly relate them to other features on the car body.

The first sheet also shows the typical condition at the mounting pin / hole interface. Whoever devised the old joke about putting a square peg in a round hole obviously didn't design plastic parts, because that is exactly what Kadee has done. The mounting pegs are .017" squares with a long tapered lead; they are designed to be pressed into .020" diameter holes. A look at the drawing shows that this combination yields appx. .002" of interference at the corners of the peg, while the unfilled portions of the hole provide a place for the displaced material.This is good design practice, but it does point out that the grabs must be properly oriented before they are pressed in place; ones the corners dig into the circumference of the hole, it will be either difficult or impossible to twist them straight. If this is a problem, the holes can be increased to .024" diameter, and CA used to fill the gaps and lock the mounting peg in place.

Those who were hoping to use the really fine Kadee boxcar ladders on other projects are going to be disappointed, unless they have a drill that drills rectangular holes. Kadee has chosen, wisely, as far as I'm concerned, to make the mounting pegs rectangular, .024" x .044". This allows a much stronger mounting than round pegs could provide, and ensures that the ladders remain straight, but the difficulty of generating the rectangular slots in a model that wasn't molded with them in place is going to preclude using these ladders on other projects. Because of this, I haven't bothered to post the slot dimensions.

These are indeed wonderful parts. The grab irons and ladder rungs measure just .010" in diameter, smaller than the .012" wire that is commonly used in HO scale for these parts. The minimum diameter for these parts on the prototype is 5/8", which scales to .007", but some prototype parts are made from larger stock. The Kadee rung scale to just a bit larger than 7/8", not far from the mark.

Dennis Storzek







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Revisions to NYC Toledo Division Freight Consists Files

SUVCWORR@...
 

Finding PRR wheel reports and consist lists is nearly impossible. The PRR considered these to be proprietary and that falling into the "wrong" hands could give competitive advantage to other roads. The SOP was to destroy the lists and reports once no longer needed for car movement.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: rdepennsyfan <pattirobpatti1@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 10:24 am
Subject: [STMFC] Revisions to NYC Toledo Division Freight Consists Files


Group, I have uploaded a revised List of Cars for the NYC Toledo Division
reight train consists, which adds more suggestions for HO scale models to
epresent these cars. I have also corrected several several AAR car
esignations (i.e., changed "XM" to "XML"; "TPI" to "TPA"; etc.) based on the
anuary 1957 ORER.
Finally, I removed the text files for the "model" versions of each train. These
iles duplicated the information found in this Excel spreadsheet and were just
aking up space at this point.
I hope you still find this information useful and look forward to it generating
ore discussion of car distribution as a source of freight train modeling
nformation.
Rob Erickson
P.S. I'm still hoping somebody will come up with wheel reports/consist lists
or PRR Buffalo Division freight trains from the 1949-1952 era. ;-)

------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Individual Email | Traditional
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

SOUTHERN Boxcars

Allen Cain <allencain@...>
 

Hi,



I am getting ready to start on some SpeedWitch kits using the Branchline
1500 Undec 40 ft boxcar with 8 ft doors using Ted's conversion parts. I
also have some Branchline 1514 kits of the Southern cars that I intend to
build using Ted's conversion parts to correct the ends, doors and roof walk.



Hopefully someone can steer me toward a good match for the paint used on the
Branchline 1514 kits so that when I install the SpeedWitch ends and doors I
can get a reasonably good match to the original Branchilne paint. I would
like to retain the Branchline lettering and logo on these cars and avoid
stripping them (may have to abandon this if the SpeedWitch decals are
dramatically different from the Branchline lettering on the 1514 kits).



Any and all help would be appreciated.



Allen Cain

Re: B&O M-53 was Re: B&O, GM&N

SUVCWORR@...
 

The "red" paint began with the 13 great states lettering scheme in 1946. These cars are in the second run scheduled for release in the Spring of 2012.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Don <riverman_vt@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 12:07 pm
Subject: B&O M-53 was Re: [STMFC] B&O, GM&N



--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:
Regarding the B&O M-53 -- the brown color is correct for the paint schemes for
hich it is used Pre WWII and during the war. The red color was adopted post
WII and is being used by FVM with the appropriate P/L schemes.

The brown cars did run into the 50's until being repainted.

Equally important for those of us modeling the mid to late 1940's
pproximately when was the brighter red first used? I, too, have noted the
ifference and it can add variety to a freight train but I do not wish to use it
nd than find it did not come into general use until after 1948.
Thanks for any assistance, Don Valentine

------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Individual Email | Traditional
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Kadee Bracket Grab Iron Hole Locations

Dennis Storzek
 

As Promised, I have surveyed the mounting holes on a Kadee PS-1 body and have uploaded dimensioned sketches to the FILES section at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Kadee_PS-1_Grab_Iron_Holes/

All dimensions are decimal inches, to four places where necessary. The ordinate dimensions are relative to the center of the grab iron; it is up to whoever develops a drilling jig to properly relate them to other features on the car body.

The first sheet also shows the typical condition at the mounting pin / hole interface. Whoever devised the old joke about putting a square peg in a round hole obviously didn't design plastic parts, because that is exactly what Kadee has done. The mounting pegs are .017" squares with a long tapered lead; they are designed to be pressed into .020" diameter holes. A look at the drawing shows that this combination yields appx. .002" of interference at the corners of the peg, while the unfilled portions of the hole provide a place for the displaced material.This is good design practice, but it does point out that the grabs must be properly oriented before they are pressed in place; ones the corners dig into the circumference of the hole, it will be either difficult or impossible to twist them straight. If this is a problem, the holes can be increased to .024" diameter, and CA used to fill the gaps and lock the mounting peg in place.

Those who were hoping to use the really fine Kadee boxcar ladders on other projects are going to be disappointed, unless they have a drill that drills rectangular holes. Kadee has chosen, wisely, as far as I'm concerned, to make the mounting pegs rectangular, .024" x .044". This allows a much stronger mounting than round pegs could provide, and ensures that the ladders remain straight, but the difficulty of generating the rectangular slots in a model that wasn't molded with them in place is going to preclude using these ladders on other projects. Because of this, I haven't bothered to post the slot dimensions.

These are indeed wonderful parts. The grab irons and ladder rungs measure just .010" in diameter, smaller than the .012" wire that is commonly used in HO scale for these parts. The minimum diameter for these parts on the prototype is 5/8", which scales to .007", but some prototype parts are made from larger stock. The Kadee rung scale to just a bit larger than 7/8", not far from the mark.

Dennis Storzek

Odd Box Car?

Steve Vallee
 

Dear Group...

While looking though the November, 1937 issue of Railroad Magazine, I spotted this tidbit on page 130:


Boxcar No. 61843 bearing both SP oval and Wabash initial turned up here. stenciled on the side was "Leased from Wabash from the Sou. Pac. Ry." it is used exclusively for carrying auto parts out of Detroit.---RAY DUNIGAN,996 Link Ave., Springfield, O.


Anyone out there have a photo of this car or want to try to model this car?

Steve Vallee

Revisions to NYC Toledo Division Freight Consists Files

rdepennsyfan
 

Group, I have uploaded a revised List of Cars for the NYC Toledo Division freight train consists, which adds more suggestions for HO scale models to represent these cars. I have also corrected several several AAR car designations (i.e., changed "XM" to "XML"; "TPI" to "TPA"; etc.) based on the January 1957 ORER.

Finally, I removed the text files for the "model" versions of each train. These files duplicated the information found in this Excel spreadsheet and were just taking up space at this point.

I hope you still find this information useful and look forward to it generating more discussion of car distribution as a source of freight train modeling information.

Rob Erickson

P.S. I'm still hoping somebody will come up with wheel reports/consist lists for PRR Buffalo Division freight trains from the 1949-1952 era. ;-)

New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /NYC Toledo Div. Consists/List of Cars-rev4.xls
Uploaded by : rdepennsyfan <pattirobpatti1@...>
Description : Listing of cars found in the posted NYC Toledo Div. consists

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/NYC%20Toledo%20Div.%20Consists/List%20of%20Cars-rev4.xls

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html
Regards,

rdepennsyfan <pattirobpatti1@...>

Re: Floquil Special Oxide Red

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Victor,
Why aren't you in Lisle?
Scalecoat Oxide Red or Floquil Oxide Red are both good choices that I use.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "wabash2813" <reporterllc@...> wrote:

I was looking for something to paint my Speedwitch Wabash Single Sheathed box cars. I note Speedwitch recommends Model Flex light oxide red but my local hobby shops don't carry it. Other than ordering it online, does anyone know anything else that would work?

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana

--- In STMFC@..., "wabash2813" <reporterllc@> wrote:

Yes.

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@ wrote:


Victor,

Are you talking about Poly Scale? I am not familiar with Special Oxide Red in the Floquil line.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: wabash2813 <reporterllc@>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Fri, Oct 21, 2011 3:29 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Floquil Special Oxide Red




What is special about it? Does it have any specific application for a freight car color?

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Floquil Special Oxide Red

Rossiter, Mark W <Mark.Rossiter@...>
 

If nothing else, the Special Oxide Red is a pretty good match for the
factory paint on the Red Caboose PRR X-29's. I used it to paint the
A-line stirrups, etc. that I added.



- - Mark

B&O M-53 was Re: B&O, GM&N

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:


Regarding the B&O M-53 -- the brown color is correct for the paint schemes for which it is used Pre WWII and during the war. The red color was adopted post WWII and is being used by FVM with the appropriate P/L schemes.

The brown cars did run into the 50's until being repainted.

Equally important for those of us modeling the mid to late 1940's
approximately when was the brighter red first used? I, too, have noted the difference and it can add variety to a freight train but I do not wish to use it and than find it did not come into general use until after 1948.

Thanks for any assistance, Don Valentine

Re: Floquil Special Oxide Red

reporterllc
 

I was looking for something to paint my Speedwitch Wabash Single Sheathed box cars. I note Speedwitch recommends Model Flex light oxide red but my local hobby shops don't carry it. Other than ordering it online, does anyone know anything else that would work?

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana

--- In STMFC@..., "wabash2813" <reporterllc@...> wrote:

Yes.

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@ wrote:


Victor,

Are you talking about Poly Scale? I am not familiar with Special Oxide Red in the Floquil line.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: wabash2813 <reporterllc@>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Fri, Oct 21, 2011 3:29 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Floquil Special Oxide Red




What is special about it? Does it have any specific application for a freight car color?

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Floquil Special Oxide Red

reporterllc
 

Yes.

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:


Victor,

Are you talking about Poly Scale? I am not familiar with Special Oxide Red in the Floquil line.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: wabash2813 <reporterllc@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Fri, Oct 21, 2011 3:29 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Floquil Special Oxide Red




What is special about it? Does it have any specific application for a freight car color?

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana








Re: Floquil Special Oxide Red

Greg Martin
 

Victor,

Are you talking about Poly Scale? I am not familiar with Special Oxide Red in the Floquil line.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: wabash2813 <@VictorVector>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Fri, Oct 21, 2011 3:29 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Floquil Special Oxide Red




What is special about it? Does it have any specific application for a freight car color?

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Floquil Special Oxide Red

reporterllc
 

What is special about it? Does it have any specific application for a freight car color?

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana

Tangent Bethehem 70 ton drop end gon

SUVCWORR@...
 

For which roads is this car correct or reasonably correct besides

B&O
LV
WM
CRP
CNJ
NKP
WABASH
N&W FROM WABASH
WAG?
MP?

Rich Orr