Date   
Re: Walthers 54 ft. GSC flat car Car No. 469980

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks, Rich
Fenton Wells

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 8:58 PM, Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

**


Fenton, The Pennsy started getting these cars, their class F41, in 1954 and
begun building their own in 1955-1956

.

Rich Christie

________________________________
From: srrfan1401 <@srrfan>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 6:49 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Walthers 54 ft. GSC flat car Car No. 469980


Gentlemen, I found one of these kits in my inventory and was looking at the
build date of 1-56. Several questions; Is this car correct for the PRR?
Could I decal it for an earlier build date? My cut off date is 11-52. If I
can use it earlier what number series should I use? Or should I sell it and
buy something else? I'm thinking the GSC flat cars were released earlier
than 1956 but I could be wrong. I am thanking you in advance for your help
and guidance.
Fenton Wells

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
@srrfan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Walthers 54 ft. GSC flat car Car No. 469980

Benjamin Hom
 

Fenton Wells wrote:

"I think I have that RMJ in my file I'll check it out."

It's online at trainlife.com!  Just follow the link I gave you:
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/100/7182/december-1992-page-8


Ben Hom

Re: Walthers 54 ft. GSC flat car Car No. 469980

Benjamin Hom
 

Rich Christie wrote:
"The Pennsy started getting these cars, their class F41, in 1954 and begun
building their own in 1955-1956."

Rich, I disagree with your 1954 date.  What's your source?


Ben Hom

Re: Floquil Special Oxide Red substitude

Ed <nprybiged@...>
 

Victor and John

I went to Krylon's web site and entered in the search box
sandable brown primer and came up with Ruddy Brown. This
is only available in 12 oz spray cans. This ruddy Brown
looks real good. I can't imagine using that 12 oz spray
can to paint rolling stock.

Ed Ursem

--- In STMFC@..., "John" <rattler21@...> wrote:

Victor,
I've used Krylon sandable brown primer in aerosal cans.
Try it on a sample piece.
John in Illinois

--- In STMFC@..., "wabash2813" <reporterllc@> wrote:

What is special about it? Does it have any specific application for a freight car color?

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana

Re: Walthers 54 ft. GSC flat car Car No. 469980

O Fenton Wells
 

Great reply, Thanks Ben. I think I have that RMJ in my file I'll check it
out.
Fenton

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

**


Fenton Wells asked:
"I found one of these kits in my inventory and was looking at the build
date of
1-56. Several questions:

"Is this car correct for the PRR?"

It's similar to Class F41, but it needs work to be a more accurate model.
Elden

Gatwood posted details on the work needed on one of the lists, but I don't
remember if it was STMFC or PRR-Modeling. I'll leave him to provide the
details.

"Could I decal it for an earlier build date? My cut off date is 11-52. If I
can
use it earlier what number series should I use?"

Not for PRR. The earliest Class F41 flatcars were built in December 1955.
See
Buchan/Gatwood's Pennsylvania Railroad Flat Cars Revenue and Work Equipment

1881-1968 for more details.

"Or should I sell it and buy something else? I'm thinking the GSC flat cars
were

released earlier than 1956 but I could be wrong."

Actually, you are correct. Roads that acquired these cars before 11-52 are

GM&O, ATSF, and M-K-T. See Jim Eager's article in the December 1992 issue
of
RMJ for more information:
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/100/7182/december-1992-page-8

Ben Hom




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
@srrfan

Re: Walthers 54 ft. GSC flat car Car No. 469980

Rich C
 

Fenton, The Pennsy started getting these cars, their class F41, in 1954 and begun building their own in 1955-1956

.
 
Rich Christie

________________________________
From: srrfan1401 <@srrfan>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 6:49 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Walthers 54 ft. GSC flat car Car No. 469980


 
Gentlemen, I found one of these kits in my inventory and was looking at the build date of 1-56. Several questions; Is this car correct for the PRR? Could I decal it for an earlier build date? My cut off date is 11-52. If I can use it earlier what number series should I use? Or should I sell it and buy something else? I'm thinking the GSC flat cars were released earlier than 1956 but I could be wrong. I am thanking you in advance for your help and guidance.
Fenton Wells

Re: Walthers 54 ft. GSC flat car Car No. 469980

Benjamin Hom
 

Fenton Wells asked:
"I found one of these kits in my inventory and was looking at the build date of
1-56. Several questions:

"Is this car correct for the PRR?"

It's similar to Class F41, but it needs work to be a more accurate model.  Elden

Gatwood posted details on the work needed on one of the lists, but I don't
remember if it was STMFC or PRR-Modeling.  I'll leave him to provide the
details.


"Could I decal it for an earlier build date? My cut off date is 11-52. If I can
use it earlier what number series should I use?"

Not for PRR.  The earliest Class F41 flatcars were built in December 1955.  See
Buchan/Gatwood's Pennsylvania Railroad Flat Cars Revenue and Work Equipment
1881-1968 for more details.


"Or should I sell it and buy something else? I'm thinking the GSC flat cars were

released earlier than 1956 but I could be wrong."

Actually, you are correct.  Roads that acquired these cars before 11-52 are
GM&O, ATSF, and M-K-T.  See Jim Eager's article in the December 1992 issue of
RMJ for more information:
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/100/7182/december-1992-page-8


Ben Hom

Walthers 54 ft. GSC flat car Car No. 469980

O Fenton Wells
 

Gentlemen, I found one of these kits in my inventory and was looking at the build date of 1-56. Several questions; Is this car correct for the PRR? Could I decal it for an earlier build date? My cut off date is 11-52. If I can use it earlier what number series should I use? Or should I sell it and buy something else? I'm thinking the GSC flat cars were released earlier than 1956 but I could be wrong. I am thanking you in advance for your help and guidance.
Fenton Wells

Re: WP 21379

StephenK
 

Lee --

Thanks for the info. Dan's photo is the one I have in my files. Of course, I'm not sure I want to recreate this car now--the prototype is a little odd!

SKay

--- In STMFC@..., "RailGoat" <railgoat@...> wrote:

Steve,

See the following:

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/other_cars/wp_cars/wp_number/020801-021400.htm

Lee A. Gautreauax - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/







I have a photo in my files (downloaded from the net, but I don't remember where!) of a 40 PS-1 boxcar, Western Pacific 21379. It has the orange feather on the right side, along with the "Rides like a Feather" slogan. The road number and Capacity data are restenciled in white, and it is heavily weathered. Here is what I don't understand: There is a Frisco Lines herald on the left, above the WP and car number. I have a Kadee car that I would like to weather, and I am thinking about this scheme, but I wold like to know where the prototype came from.

Any ideas?

Steve Kay

B&O M-53 Wagontop Models--one more styrene model

Bill Welch
 

Based on the Exactrail models of the B&O M-53 Wagontop I saw at Lisle this weekend, I would strongly suggest people wait to see one before buying any of the available models!

I did not look at the underframe but the superstructure is very fine, ladders grabs, sill steps especially and the painting and lettering was beautiful.

I say this in all objectivity having built both of Sunshine's wagon tops and don't need anymore.

Bill welch

Warped Plastic Gondola

Paul Hillman
 

I asked the C&EI for permission to use the page from their Volume 29:1 Flyer and got their following response.

"Paul, we have no objections to the use of the Page 29 being placed on the site as long as the C&EI HS is given credit. We do have diagrams of almost all C&EI equipment and it is available to members and others for a small fee. We are also in the process of scanning in some 200 equipment drawings showing details as well as lettering diagrams for C&EI equipment. This will become available next year for members on CD.

Rick Schroeder, Treasurer "

The photo & diagram are in the photos folder, "A-C&EI 95300 Gondola",
pending approval.

Paul Hillman

New York Central Modeler

Noel Widdifield <NYCBigFour@...>
 

New York Central Modeler

Our second edition of the NYCentral Modeler was posted on the NYCSHS website last Monday and we have gotten many complements on the contents and style. We even received a few suggestions that we will incorporate into the next edition.

Right now, after a week off, we are beginning to lay out the 1st edition for 2012 and have some very exciting articles and features planned for you. We still have room for a few more articles and some photos of NYC layouts.

We are really interested in hearing from some of you who model in the scales other than HO, N, O and G. We can always use more articles in those scales but would like to see some photos and articles in S and Z.

If you model in any scale and feature the NYC as a theme or just have some NYC rolling stock, we would like to hear from you so that we can include you in our publications.

Anyone interested can contact me at NYCBigFour@... and I will send you a style guide, hints on taking great photos and some other material to help you provide us with photos and/or an article showcasing your modeling skills or collection.

Thanks, Noel

Re: Tangent Bethehem 70 ton drop end gon

Ed Hawkins
 

On Oct 21, 2011, at 4:34 PM, SUVCWORR@... wrote:

B&O
LV
WM
CRP
CNJ
NKP
WABASH
N&W FROM WABASH
WAG?
MP?
Rich,
B&O, CRP/CNJ, LV, RDG WM, WAB purchased the cars new during a span of
time from 1937 to 1957. Some cars were obtained by other roads second
hand, most outside the scope of this forum. The WAG had one second-hand
car (car no. 3000) that I just learned about this weekend during my
presentation on this subject at the Lisle RPM (obtained from B&O in
1957). More may have been obtained after 1960. MP didn't have drop-end
cars of this type, and I'm not aware of any NKP cars.

Please see my 37-page article about these cars in RP CYC Vol. 23.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Re: 4th Quarter Edition of the NYCentral Modeler

Stuart A. Forsyth <trainmail@...>
 

Hi Noel,

I would like to receive email notification of publication and news about the NYCSHS.

Thanks,

Stuart
trainmail@...

On Oct 18, 2011, at 3:53 AM, Noel Widdifield wrote:

The 4th Quarter edition of the NYCentral Modeler was uploaded to the NYCSHS website yesterday. We were a couple of days late because of a minor technical difficulty.

This edition is an international edition with articles by authors from Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States. We also have the first of a two-part interview with Tony Koester. This 52-page edition is packed with news and articles about the New York Central System and modeling news.

Check it out at http://www.nycshs.org

If you would like an email notification of publication and news about the NYCSHS, send us your email address and name and we will include you in our e-mailings. Send us an email telling us you would like to be included. NYCBigFour@...

Thanks, Noel

B&O M-53 was Re: B&O, GM&N

Donald B. Valentine
 

Thank you Rich & John,

And the photo is great! One cannot help but notice the difference not only between the B&O M-26 and what appears to be a Dumaine era New Haven repaint but also between the New Haven repaint and the ACL and SP box cars. The SP car appears to have been about the same color tone as the New Haven prior to the effects of weathering, while the ACL car appears that it must have been somewhere between the New Haven and B&O car when freshly painted. Would anyone care to comment on what I surmise here?

Cordially, Don Valentine

--- In STMFC@..., "boyds1949" <e27ca@...> wrote:

Here is a link to a photo in (I think)the University of Indiana collection showing an M-26 in the first 13 great states lettering. In this case, the color is definitely a version of the oxide red.


http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P06941.jpg

I have a slide, taken in 1946 at Brunswick, that shows a couple of M-15s in the same lettering but in what appears to be brown paint. I guess it depended on how much old paint was still in the barrel.

John King



--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@ wrote:


The "red" paint began with the 13 great states lettering scheme in 1946. These cars are in the second run scheduled for release in the Spring of 2012.

Rich Orr



-----Original Message-----
From: Don <riverman_vt@>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 12:07 pm
Subject: B&O M-53 was Re: [STMFC] B&O, GM&N



--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@ wrote:
Regarding the B&O M-53 -- the brown color is correct for the paint schemes for
hich it is used Pre WWII and during the war. The red color was adopted post
WII and is being used by FVM with the appropriate P/L schemes.

The brown cars did run into the 50's until being repainted.

Equally important for those of us modeling the mid to late 1940's
pproximately when was the brighter red first used? I, too, have noted the
ifference and it can add variety to a freight train but I do not wish to use it
nd than find it did not come into general use until after 1948.
Thanks for any assistance, Don Valentine

------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Individual Email | Traditional
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Western Union

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., Glen Mills <mills.glen@...> wrote:

Hello,

Below is text I have copied from the Steam Era Freight Cars
Discussion Group.

The second last paragraph refers to the NKP (and others) as
acquiring some of their cars.

Any details would be appreciated, please.

Regards,

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Western Union Tidbit

Posted by: "Steve" stvvallee@... stvvallee

Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:30 am (PDT)


Dear Group...

Over a year ago, there were some members asking about Western Union
cars. This might not help, but I found this tidbit on page 34 of
the August, 1959 issue of Railroad Magazine under their > "Information Booth" section:

Q)...Does Western Union own and operate railroad cars?

A)...Yes, they have 33 on the Southern Pacific, Missouri Pacific,
Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, New Haven, Jersey Central,
Long Island, Canadian National and other roads where and when
required.

They are used by WU's Plant and engineering Department for
maintenance and repair of telegraph lines by crews dispatched in
a completely self-sustaining unit comprising sleeping-car, dining
car and tool and material boxcars. At one time the company
operated about 200 railroad cars.

This list seems to overlook Steve Vallee's favored Boston & Maine
on which rested a Western Union tool car adjacent the former Greenfield, Mass. depot site and next to the Connecticut River line
dispatcher's office until approximately 1973. It was this car that was believed to have been the prototype for the Ambroid "One of 5000" kits.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Kadee Bracket Grab Iron Hole Locations

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., Paul Lyons <cobrapsl@...> wrote:


Dennis,
Thanks for all the effort! I hope you have the dimension between the mounting pin holes on the side grabs and just forgot to put it on the drawing? Or perhaps, it is the same dimension as the end grab?
Paul Lyons
The side and end bracket grab drawings are done with ordinate dimensions, Paul. The number on the end of the dimension line is the distance that line is from the center line, which is labeled "000" to indicate it's the origin. In the case of the side bracket grab, the holes are .1035" to each side of the center, or .207" apart. The end bracket grab is a bit longer, with the holes .111" from centerline, or .222" apart. Ordinate dimensioning is common on tool drawings, since without need for arrowheads, etc, it really helps to reduce clutter, and the toolmaker is typically relating all the dimensions to one point, typically the center of the tooling insert. In this case it's handy because all the holes will be a repeating unit; locate the desired center points of the grab irons, make the related holes into a block, or group, or whatever your CAD software calls it, and drop them on each center point of the grab.

I'm not getting into where the grabs should be located on the car, because it can be different for different prototypes. The dimensions are typically specified from top of rail, and so will not relate to the edges of the sills, etc. the same on all cars. The AAR recommendations have been published in multiple places; several times in the Car Builder's Cyclopedia.

Dennis

Re: Western Union

mofwcaboose
 

There is distressingly little hard information on the ex- Western Union cars that were used by the Nickel Plate, and most of it comes from the Spring 1975 NKPT&HS magazine, which was entirely on the company service equipment of the NKP, authored by Eric Hirsimaki. He noted that 11 passenger-type cars were purchased from Western Union in 1942. Then he added that 22 more cars were acquired in 1948, "included tank cars, passenger cars, and a few other odd pieces of equipment".

In a section about car numbering, he notes that cars X5215 - X52156 were Western Union, and further on, he states that the tank cars in series X150 - X170 were "presumably Western Union cars".

Lastly in the photo section, he identifies two passenger-type camp cars as ex- Western Union, X50713 (acquired in 1942) and X50708. Both cars have the look of old Western Union camp cars, which were mostly converted from wooden Pullmans. The arched transoms over the windows were covered over, and doors at one end were closed off.

My negative collection includes seven views of NKP cars that might qualify, though one of the tank cars, X155, looks a bit small to be an ex-Western Union water car. The other one, X161, looks much more like a Western Union car. There is a view of X52156, unmistakeably a typical tool & material car. There are two views of X50708, one of each side. There is a car coupled to it, X53007, which is similar. It should be noted that WU camp cars were usually in pairs: one was the foreman & bunk car, the second was the kitchen, dining and cook car. And finally, there is one of X50706, almost certainly another ex- Western Union car.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita springs, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Mills <mills.glen@...>
To: nkp@yahoogroups <nkp@...>; STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 7:35 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Western Union





Hello,

Below is text I have copied from the Steam Era Freight Cars Discussion
Group.

The second last paragraph refers to the NKP (and others) as acquiring some
of their cars.

Any details would be appreciated, please.

Regards,

Glen Mills

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Western Union Tidbit

Posted by: "Steve" stvvallee@... stvvallee

Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:30 am (PDT)

Dear Group...

Over a year ago, there were some members asking about Western Union cars.
This might not help, but I found this tidbit on page 34 of the August, 1959
issue of Railroad Magazine under their "Information Booth" section:

Q)...Does Western Union own and operate railroad cars?

A)...Yes, they have 33 on the Southern Pacific, Missouri Pacific, Seaboard
Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, New Haven, Jersey Central, Long Island,
Canadian National and other roads where and when required.

They are used by WU's Plant and engineering Department for maintenance and
repair of telegraph lines by crews dispatched in a completely
self-sustaining unit comprising sleeping-car, dining-car and tool and
material boxcars. At one time the company operated about 200 railroad cars.

Steve Vallee

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Re: Western Union Tidbit

Posted by: "John C. La Rue, Jr." MOFWCABOOSE@... mofwcaboose

Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:12 am (PDT)

By 1959 the last camp cars in the US had been sold for scrap, sold to
railroads for further use as camp cars, or relegated to storage service at
Western Union's shop at Chattanooga, where they were later burned for their
metal. One three-car outfit was still operational in the maritimes in Canada
until 1963 when it was returned to the US and also scrapped. After that the
only cars left were the tool and material cars in the 7000 series, which
gradually disappeared or were sold to railroads.

The Georgia Railroad, the Chicago & North Western, the Soo, the St.
Louis-San Francisco, and the Nickel Plate are all definitely known to have
had ex-Western Union camp cars, mostly acquired in the late 1940s.

Probably the easiest way to model them in HO would be to start with the La
Belle wooden Pullmans (since that was what the camp cars originally were).
The distinctive tool & material cars were once made by Ambroid as part of
its 'One of 5000" series, and later re-issued by Northeastern.

John C. La Rue, Jr.

Bonita Springs, FL

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: WP 21379

Lee Gautreaux
 


I have a photo in my files (downloaded from the net, but I don't remember where!) of a 40 PS-1 boxcar, Western Pacific 21379. It has the orange feather on the right side, along with the "Rides like a Feather" slogan. The road number and Capacity data are restenciled in white, and it is heavily weathered. Here is what I don't understand: There is a Frisco Lines herald on the left, above the WP and car number. I have a Kadee car that I would like to weather, and I am thinking about this scheme, but I wold like to know where the prototype came from.

Any ideas?

Steve Kay

Re: Kadee Bracket Grab Iron Hole Locations

Craig Zeni
 

Or, you can use my method...

I drill the holes with a #72 bit (taking locations from a Kadee car). I drill through, and apply liquid styrene cement from the back if possible. I give it 10-15 seconds to soften, and then gently push the ladders into place. The softened styrene pushes out of the way or out the back - rarely does any come up under the ladder. I just finished up a TMFTL* car and had to mount four new half ladders on the ends and corners. Mounted them all this way, and have mounted Kadee ladders to Intermountain PS-1s this way as well.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC

*TMFTL - Too Modern For This List :)

On Oct 22, 2011, at 7:52 PM, STMFC@... wrote:
5d. Re: Kadee Bracket Grab Iron Hole Locations
Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" @timboconnor cf5250
Date: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:25 am ((PDT))

Dennis

One could try drilling a small round hole, and then using a 4-sided
steel reamer of a slightly larger dimension and just forcing it into
the round hole. Because the material is styrene it should deform and
provide a nearly square hole for the ladder mounting pins. (I assume
people are doing this with styrene carbodies. Don't know if resin would
deform the same way.)

Tim O'Connor



Those who were hoping to use the really fine Kadee boxcar ladders on other projects are going to be disappointed, unless they have a drill that drills rectangular holes. Kadee has chosen, wisely, as far as I'm concerned, to make the mounting pegs rectangular, .024" x .044". This allows a much stronger mounting than round pegs could provide, and ensures that the ladders remain straight, but the difficulty of generating the rectangular slots in a model that wasn't molded with them in place is going to preclude using these ladders on other projects. Because of this, I haven't bothered to post the slot dimensions.

These are indeed wonderful parts. The grab irons and ladder rungs measure just .010" in diameter, smaller than the .012" wire that is commonly used in HO scale for these parts. The minimum diameter for these parts on the prototype is 5/8", which scales to .007", but some prototype parts are made from larger stock. The Kadee rung scale to just a bit larger than 7/8", not far from the mark.

Dennis Storzek