Date   

Re: Was a 7-ft box car door really . . .

Andy Carlson
 

Yes, and at least one manufacturer, Front Range Products, made that same
mistake.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


________________________________
From: jim_mischke <jmischke@att.net>




What we call a seven foot door is actually the prototype door opening width.

Previous to that, it was common for modelmakers to make the door itself the
nominal six, seven, eight foot wide. And we customers did not know the
difference. Few if any of us checked drawings.

--


Re: Was a 7-ft box car door really . . .

Jim Mischke
 

What we call a seven foot door is actually the prototype door opening width.

If I recall correctly, this was first pointed out by C&NW boxcar expert Jeff Koeller at a Naperville presentation a few years ago. Previous to that, it was common for modelmakers to make the door itself the nominal six, seven, eight foot wide. And we customers did not know the difference. Few if any of us checked drawings.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <cornbeltroute@...> wrote:

seven feet (for example) wide? Or, was it typical for box car doors to be a bit wider because the actual box car door opening was seven feet (for example) wide, and doors needed to span the opening plus some? If so, was this a common building practice?

Thanks much,

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


Re: Fox Valley B&O wagontop

Jim Mischke
 

Ken, The B&O billboard lettering on B&O boxcars started in 1955, the one you have is a 1962 variation.

The only billboard lettering appropriate to your 1954 era is on hopper cars, with a large ampersand in the large "B&O"

Dr. Chris Barkan made up B&O hopper and boxcar scorecards of B&O lettering schemes and some names. This made sense and wisdom out of what had been total chaos before. There are enough exceptions and variations to warrent more discussion, this will get you started.


B&O Boxcars:

http://borhs.org/Logos/CBarkan/BOBoxcarStenciling1920-60s.pdf



B&O Hoppers:

http://borhs.org/Logos/CBarkan/BOHopperStenciling1940-60s.pdf

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "kenrobbins39" <kenrobbins39@...> wrote:

I recently picked up an HO scale B&O wagontop boxcar imported by Fox Valley, that has the large B&O lettering. It's a beautiful model and I really prefer it over the older, smaller lettering, but because I model the year 1954, I have a concern about the "NEW 6-63" date on the side.

Can anyone on this list tell me when these M-53's were first repainted with the large B&O lettering?

Thanks.

Ken Robbins
Hancock, NH


Re: Time Period Covered by STMFC Group

Dick Dawson <dickdawson@...>
 

My thanks to everyone who pointed me in the direction of the BBFCL and MFCL. I joined the MFCL and it looks very interesting.



Dick Dawson



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Gates
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 6:57 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Time Period Covered by STMFC Group





bbfcl - 1954-1986
mfcl is 1960 and later

Jim Gates

________________________________
From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net <mailto:schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Time Period Covered by STMFC Group



There are two other lists:

The Baby Boomer FCL, which I believe covers around 1945 to maybe 1976? I'm
not a member so don't know for sure.

The Modern Freight Cars list, which I believe covers post-1960.

Both are Yahoo! lists and can be found on Yahoo!

SGL

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dick
Dawson
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 10:47 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Time Period Covered by STMFC Group

I'm relatively new to this group and find the level of expertise of the
participants to be remarkable. This was certainly exhibited in the photos
from the Lisle RPM Meet. I noticed photos of Penn Central and TTX cars,
which certainly caught my attention, as I designed cars built by both those
companies. Having worked in the freight car industry since the late 1960s,
my interests are more oriented to the period from about 1960 to the present.
This is true, not only because of my personal involvement for most of that
period, but also because of significant changes in freight car use and
construction that took place during that time, including the following:

the widespread use of 100-ton, and later 110-ton, cars

the replacement of solid journal bearings with roller bearings

the replacement of boxcars by covered hopper cars as the primary carriers of
grain, with covered hoppers eventually becoming the most widely used car
type

the introduction of 60-ft. and 86-ft. boxcars, first for auto parts and
eventually (although not 86-ft. cars) for a wide variety of loads

the enormous expansion of intermodal traffic and the proliferation of car
types used to haul it

The STMFC group's limitation to freight cars built prior to 1960 is entirely
logical, as indicated in the name, but the foregoing leads me to the
question of whether there is a similar discussion group that covers the
period after 1960. Any suggestions from the participants in this group
would be greatly appreciated.

Dick Dawson

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "dh30973"
<dhussey@...> wrote:

The photos I took at the Lisle RPM Meet are up at:

http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/lisle2011
<http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/lisle2011
<http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/lisle2011 <http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/lisle2011&page=all> &page=all> &page=all> &page=all

Dave Hussey


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: D&RGW Boxcar Color

John Cook <jtcrgs455@...>
 

D&RGW automobile car #60271 is actually a double door car.  It has a unique 9'-0" auxiliary door and 6'-0" main door on each side.
 
John Cook


Basket cars

Charles Hladik
 

Jim Brewer,
My reply got kicked, so...........................
The Virginia Tech web site has photos of 2 basket cars. The first is
numbered 203164, an F-24. The second is numbered 203422, an F-20. One
appears to have a routing placard that I can't read.
Doubt that they would wind up on the Rutland ca. 48.
Thanks,
Chuck Hladik


Re: Pig Iron

Todd Horton
 

The  C of G used USRA clone gons with the sides lowered to transport this material out of Birmingham Ala.  Todd Horton



________________________________
From: traininsp <Bbear746@aol.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:27 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Pig Iron



 

Does anyone here know what types of cars were used to ship pig iron during the 1930's

Thanks in advance
Jeff Coleman




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Calling Lonnie Donegan? (was: Pig Iron)

Scott Pitzer
 

Just when I thought the Topic of the Day was going to livestock....
somebody brings up pig iron... like when the engineer in the song "Rock Island Line" fools the man at the big toll gate just outside of New-Ah-Leens.
Or, in the Stan Freberg version, he "foo" him...
Scott Pitzer


Re: Pig Iron

water.kresse@...
 

So did the Hocking Valley then C&O in SE Ohio.  It would be interesting to see how small the "pigs" were by that time.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----


From: "O Fenton Wells" <srrfan1401@gmail.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:29:54 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Pig Iron

I believe the Southern RR used gondolas for this purpose.
Fenton Wells

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 2:27 PM, traininsp <Bbear746@aol.com> wrote:

**


Does anyone here know what types of cars were used to ship pig iron during
the 1930's

Thanks in advance
Jeff Coleman

 


--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@gmail.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Stock Car Question

Douglas Harding
 

Steve, Tony, and others: the chart I tried to send did not come through
Yahoo very well. I have a copy of AAR Pamphlet NO 19 "Methods for Loading
and Handling Live Stock" issued April 1925, revised January 1942. On page 8
is the same chart as used by the UP and the ATSF. A jpg of page 8 is
awaiting approval to be uploaded into a new photo album "stock cars" found
in the group photos.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Stock Car Question

Rob & Bev Manley
 

I used the Dyna-Models lead cows as weight in my Central Valley NP Stockars. I never did actually weigh and add up the total however but I am quite sure they NEVER exceeded NMRA standards.
Rob Manley
Midwest Mod-U-Trak
"Better modeling through personal embarrassment"

----- Original Message -----
From: John H
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:51 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Stock Car Question



Well, it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out how much the livestock weighs. Let's see now .... hmmm. a three lb package of hamburger weighs three lbs so a one lb canned ham would weigh ...

Oh never mind.

John Hagen

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
>
> Doug Harding wrote:
> > Steve, that in general is correct. Railroads and Livestock Shipping
> > Associations have published such data for many years. Here is a chart
> > showing how many animals of a given size will fit in a stockcar.
>
> Thanks, Doug. Very helpful. But heck. Now I have to decide how
> HEAVY my livestock is. Ah, the ever-elusive prototype reality! Such a
> challenge!
>
> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
> 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
> (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
> Publishers of books on railroad history
>


Re: Stock Car Question

Douglas Harding
 

Tony glad I could help. Now to further your wealth of knowledge and enable
you to fill those stockpens and stockcars.



Weight of animals: we will talk about market ready, ie ready for slaughter,
as well as feeder, those ready to move to the feedlot from the grasslands.



Cattle: steers run about 1100-1250lbs, 100lbs less for heifers, bulls a
little more. figure 1400-1800 for the newer exotic breeds. Feeder calves
will be 400-600lbs.



Hogs: today's market looks for long and lean hog, 225-250 lbs. Which is
quite different from the period I model, 1949, when the market looked for a
fat hog at 300+ lbs. Hogs are one time were raised to 500+lbs, but that has
changed as .consumer demands have changed.



Sheep: figure about 135lbs for market ready. Feeder lambs will be about
30lbs.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Stock Car Question

John H <sprinthag@...>
 

Well, it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out how much the livestock weighs. Let's see now .... hmmm. a three lb package of hamburger weighs three lbs so a one lb canned ham would weigh ...

Oh never mind.

John Hagen

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Doug Harding wrote:
Steve, that in general is correct. Railroads and Livestock Shipping
Associations have published such data for many years. Here is a chart
showing how many animals of a given size will fit in a stockcar.
Thanks, Doug. Very helpful. But heck. Now I have to decide how
HEAVY my livestock is. Ah, the ever-elusive prototype reality! Such a
challenge!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Stock Car Question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Doug Harding wrote:
Steve, that in general is correct. Railroads and Livestock Shipping Associations have published such data for many years. Here is a chart
showing how many animals of a given size will fit in a stockcar.
Thanks, Doug. Very helpful. But heck. Now I have to decide how HEAVY my livestock is. Ah, the ever-elusive prototype reality! Such a challenge!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Stock Car Question

Douglas Harding
 

Steve, that in general is correct. Railroads and Livestock Shipping
Associations have published such data for many years. Here is a chart
showing how many animals of a given size will fit in a stockcar. This chart
is from the Union Pacific, but I also have one from the ATSF showing the
exact same numbers, so I suspect this was a standard used by many.



Union Pacific Livestock Shipping Guide and Directory

1941



Cattle per Car

Ave. Weight 300 400 500 600 700
800 900 1000 1100 1200 1300 1400

36-ft. car 60 50 42 37
33 30 27 25 23 22
21 19

40-ft car 67 56 46 40
37 33 30 27 25 23
22 21



Hogs per Car

Ave. Weight 100 125 150 175 200
225 250 275 300 325 350 400

36-ft. car 130 115 100 89 79
73 68 62 59 56 53
47

40-ft. car 145 127 110 98 88
82 76 69 65 62 59
52



Sheep and Lambs per Car

Ave. Weight 50 75 100 125 150
180

36-ft. car 155 125 105 96 85
75

40-ft. car 170 138 116 104 94
83



The above figures are for single deck cars. In loading hogs or sheep in
double-deck cars the number loaded in the upper deck should be eight to ten
less than that recommended for loading in lower-deck or single-deck cars,
especially in hot weather.





For an earlier time period I found the following:

AMERICA'S AMAZING RAILWAY TRAFFIC National Geographic Magazine-April, 1923
By WILLIAM JOSEPH SHOWALTER



In the first place, a stock car carries less than 10 tons of hogs, less than
11 of sheep and goats, and less than 12 of horses and mules. Likewise, box
cars load less than 13 tons of hay and straw, cotton, wool, and eggs. On the
other hand, coal cars force the average loading upward. During the second
quarter of 1920 they moved more than 50 tons of bituminous coal, nearly 48
tons of anthracite, and more than 51 tons of iron ore.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Placards

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I have posted some examples of route cards on my blog, along with a description of how I model them. Here's a link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/11/route-cards-2.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Placards

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

1) Am I right in my belief that "not all cars had route cards on them"? For instance would an empty being "returned in the direction of its owner" have a card on it? Sure, it might have a card on it that was in use previously - or parts of same where it was torn off and just part of it stayed on the card. But it didn't "need" a card if it was an empty (on most RRs)?
Depended on the railroad, JIm. Many DID use route cards for empties. I will post some examples on my blog. Photos in yards are uncertain information, because a clerk may have torn off the old cards, but not yet have applied a new card, when the photographer happened along. But photos in trains, even just arriving or departing yards, should be reliable, and certainly such photos DO show cars with no evident route card. I would guess it's less than one-fourth of the cars, though, maybe as little as one-tenth in some photos, so the majority of your cars do need route cards.

2) I have been told (read here on this list?) that route cards were also used for local routing (to industries) . . . Correct? Sometimes correct? Was this practice "common" on particular RRs and/ or in particular time frames?
Good question as to which railroads did what. Hopefully there are experienced folks on the list who can speak for particular railroads.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Pig Iron

O Fenton Wells
 

I believe the Southern RR used gondolas for this purpose.
Fenton Wells

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 2:27 PM, traininsp <Bbear746@aol.com> wrote:

**


Does anyone here know what types of cars were used to ship pig iron during
the 1930's

Thanks in advance
Jeff Coleman




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@gmail.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Pig Iron

Jeff Coleman
 

Does anyone here know what types of cars were used to ship pig iron during the 1930's

Thanks in advance
Jeff Coleman


Re: Placards

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

Although the idea of using actual placards/destination cards
to route trains on the layout is intriguing ... for me at least
it isn't very practical. I have trouble enough reading the
print on a typical car card and then matching that car card to
the cars on the layout (by car number). I would -not- be able to
read scale routing information on a tack board! And I'm not
particularly enthusiastic about having to carry around a
magnifying glass or wearing an OptiVisor during an op. *G*

If you had the right layout you might be able to get away with
color coding the placards somehow ... but doint that would tend
to create a situation where you only have one move of any one car
during an Op session (which is -not- a bad thing ... at all).

===> but also would tend to make the reset harder to do
(take more time). And might even create the tendency
for the same car to keep showing up at the same industry
over and over. (Fiddling cars on and off the layout
might be a way to deal with this ... again at the
expense of making the reset take more time.)

****

I, for one, am very interested in placards/destination cards
and intend to add them to my models ... but as "window dressing"
and not for use during an Op session.
And I am reading -all- of these posts in order to increase
my knowledge ... and eventually so that my models will be
better. THANKS!

****

Having scale route cards - as decals that I can apply - makes the
most sense to me. Just like end numbers it is a "small detail"
that is often over looked and yet makes the car(s) look better.
To my way of thinking if those decals had different colors and
arrangements of the 'unreadable' text on them that would only
make suce a decal set more likely to be purchased (by me).

**** A few questions about the details ****

1) Am I right in my belief that "not all cars had route cards on
them"? For instance would an empty being "returned in the
direction of its owner" have a card on it? Sure, it might
have a card on it that was in use previously - or parts of
same where it was torn off and just part of it stayed on the
card.
But it didn't "need" a card if it was an empty (on most RRs)?

2) I have been told (read here on this list?) that route cards
were also used for local routing (to industries) - by the
switch crews and locals ... but also that some RRs used chalk
marks and other such 'temporary' methods for that same
purpose.
What I'm saying - rather poorly - is that a loaded car might
have been moved from one city to another using just the car
number ... and then a card applied to the tack boards or side
of the car to be used only for the local routing.
Again - not every RR nor in every era for a particular RR ...
but that this was "the practice - at times" and on some RRs.
Correct? Sometimes correct? Was this practice "common"
on particular RRs and/or in particular time frames?

3) A case in point ... did the cards on cars on the SP have
the "spins" info on them during the "spins era"?
- Jim

88261 - 88280 of 192632