Date   

Re: Stock Car Question

Douglas Harding
 

Steve, Tony, and others: the chart I tried to send did not come through
Yahoo very well. I have a copy of AAR Pamphlet NO 19 "Methods for Loading
and Handling Live Stock" issued April 1925, revised January 1942. On page 8
is the same chart as used by the UP and the ATSF. A jpg of page 8 is
awaiting approval to be uploaded into a new photo album "stock cars" found
in the group photos.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Stock Car Question

Rob & Bev Manley
 

I used the Dyna-Models lead cows as weight in my Central Valley NP Stockars. I never did actually weigh and add up the total however but I am quite sure they NEVER exceeded NMRA standards.
Rob Manley
Midwest Mod-U-Trak
"Better modeling through personal embarrassment"

----- Original Message -----
From: John H
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:51 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Stock Car Question



Well, it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out how much the livestock weighs. Let's see now .... hmmm. a three lb package of hamburger weighs three lbs so a one lb canned ham would weigh ...

Oh never mind.

John Hagen

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
>
> Doug Harding wrote:
> > Steve, that in general is correct. Railroads and Livestock Shipping
> > Associations have published such data for many years. Here is a chart
> > showing how many animals of a given size will fit in a stockcar.
>
> Thanks, Doug. Very helpful. But heck. Now I have to decide how
> HEAVY my livestock is. Ah, the ever-elusive prototype reality! Such a
> challenge!
>
> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
> 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
> (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
> Publishers of books on railroad history
>


Re: Stock Car Question

Douglas Harding
 

Tony glad I could help. Now to further your wealth of knowledge and enable
you to fill those stockpens and stockcars.



Weight of animals: we will talk about market ready, ie ready for slaughter,
as well as feeder, those ready to move to the feedlot from the grasslands.



Cattle: steers run about 1100-1250lbs, 100lbs less for heifers, bulls a
little more. figure 1400-1800 for the newer exotic breeds. Feeder calves
will be 400-600lbs.



Hogs: today's market looks for long and lean hog, 225-250 lbs. Which is
quite different from the period I model, 1949, when the market looked for a
fat hog at 300+ lbs. Hogs are one time were raised to 500+lbs, but that has
changed as .consumer demands have changed.



Sheep: figure about 135lbs for market ready. Feeder lambs will be about
30lbs.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Stock Car Question

John H <sprinthag@...>
 

Well, it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out how much the livestock weighs. Let's see now .... hmmm. a three lb package of hamburger weighs three lbs so a one lb canned ham would weigh ...

Oh never mind.

John Hagen

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Doug Harding wrote:
Steve, that in general is correct. Railroads and Livestock Shipping
Associations have published such data for many years. Here is a chart
showing how many animals of a given size will fit in a stockcar.
Thanks, Doug. Very helpful. But heck. Now I have to decide how
HEAVY my livestock is. Ah, the ever-elusive prototype reality! Such a
challenge!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Stock Car Question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Doug Harding wrote:
Steve, that in general is correct. Railroads and Livestock Shipping Associations have published such data for many years. Here is a chart
showing how many animals of a given size will fit in a stockcar.
Thanks, Doug. Very helpful. But heck. Now I have to decide how HEAVY my livestock is. Ah, the ever-elusive prototype reality! Such a challenge!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Stock Car Question

Douglas Harding
 

Steve, that in general is correct. Railroads and Livestock Shipping
Associations have published such data for many years. Here is a chart
showing how many animals of a given size will fit in a stockcar. This chart
is from the Union Pacific, but I also have one from the ATSF showing the
exact same numbers, so I suspect this was a standard used by many.



Union Pacific Livestock Shipping Guide and Directory

1941



Cattle per Car

Ave. Weight 300 400 500 600 700
800 900 1000 1100 1200 1300 1400

36-ft. car 60 50 42 37
33 30 27 25 23 22
21 19

40-ft car 67 56 46 40
37 33 30 27 25 23
22 21



Hogs per Car

Ave. Weight 100 125 150 175 200
225 250 275 300 325 350 400

36-ft. car 130 115 100 89 79
73 68 62 59 56 53
47

40-ft. car 145 127 110 98 88
82 76 69 65 62 59
52



Sheep and Lambs per Car

Ave. Weight 50 75 100 125 150
180

36-ft. car 155 125 105 96 85
75

40-ft. car 170 138 116 104 94
83



The above figures are for single deck cars. In loading hogs or sheep in
double-deck cars the number loaded in the upper deck should be eight to ten
less than that recommended for loading in lower-deck or single-deck cars,
especially in hot weather.





For an earlier time period I found the following:

AMERICA'S AMAZING RAILWAY TRAFFIC National Geographic Magazine-April, 1923
By WILLIAM JOSEPH SHOWALTER



In the first place, a stock car carries less than 10 tons of hogs, less than
11 of sheep and goats, and less than 12 of horses and mules. Likewise, box
cars load less than 13 tons of hay and straw, cotton, wool, and eggs. On the
other hand, coal cars force the average loading upward. During the second
quarter of 1920 they moved more than 50 tons of bituminous coal, nearly 48
tons of anthracite, and more than 51 tons of iron ore.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Placards

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I have posted some examples of route cards on my blog, along with a description of how I model them. Here's a link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/11/route-cards-2.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Placards

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

1) Am I right in my belief that "not all cars had route cards on them"? For instance would an empty being "returned in the direction of its owner" have a card on it? Sure, it might have a card on it that was in use previously - or parts of same where it was torn off and just part of it stayed on the card. But it didn't "need" a card if it was an empty (on most RRs)?
Depended on the railroad, JIm. Many DID use route cards for empties. I will post some examples on my blog. Photos in yards are uncertain information, because a clerk may have torn off the old cards, but not yet have applied a new card, when the photographer happened along. But photos in trains, even just arriving or departing yards, should be reliable, and certainly such photos DO show cars with no evident route card. I would guess it's less than one-fourth of the cars, though, maybe as little as one-tenth in some photos, so the majority of your cars do need route cards.

2) I have been told (read here on this list?) that route cards were also used for local routing (to industries) . . . Correct? Sometimes correct? Was this practice "common" on particular RRs and/ or in particular time frames?
Good question as to which railroads did what. Hopefully there are experienced folks on the list who can speak for particular railroads.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Pig Iron

O Fenton Wells
 

I believe the Southern RR used gondolas for this purpose.
Fenton Wells

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 2:27 PM, traininsp <Bbear746@...> wrote:

**


Does anyone here know what types of cars were used to ship pig iron during
the 1930's

Thanks in advance
Jeff Coleman




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Pig Iron

Jeff Coleman
 

Does anyone here know what types of cars were used to ship pig iron during the 1930's

Thanks in advance
Jeff Coleman


Re: Placards

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

Although the idea of using actual placards/destination cards
to route trains on the layout is intriguing ... for me at least
it isn't very practical. I have trouble enough reading the
print on a typical car card and then matching that car card to
the cars on the layout (by car number). I would -not- be able to
read scale routing information on a tack board! And I'm not
particularly enthusiastic about having to carry around a
magnifying glass or wearing an OptiVisor during an op. *G*

If you had the right layout you might be able to get away with
color coding the placards somehow ... but doint that would tend
to create a situation where you only have one move of any one car
during an Op session (which is -not- a bad thing ... at all).

===> but also would tend to make the reset harder to do
(take more time). And might even create the tendency
for the same car to keep showing up at the same industry
over and over. (Fiddling cars on and off the layout
might be a way to deal with this ... again at the
expense of making the reset take more time.)

****

I, for one, am very interested in placards/destination cards
and intend to add them to my models ... but as "window dressing"
and not for use during an Op session.
And I am reading -all- of these posts in order to increase
my knowledge ... and eventually so that my models will be
better. THANKS!

****

Having scale route cards - as decals that I can apply - makes the
most sense to me. Just like end numbers it is a "small detail"
that is often over looked and yet makes the car(s) look better.
To my way of thinking if those decals had different colors and
arrangements of the 'unreadable' text on them that would only
make suce a decal set more likely to be purchased (by me).

**** A few questions about the details ****

1) Am I right in my belief that "not all cars had route cards on
them"? For instance would an empty being "returned in the
direction of its owner" have a card on it? Sure, it might
have a card on it that was in use previously - or parts of
same where it was torn off and just part of it stayed on the
card.
But it didn't "need" a card if it was an empty (on most RRs)?

2) I have been told (read here on this list?) that route cards
were also used for local routing (to industries) - by the
switch crews and locals ... but also that some RRs used chalk
marks and other such 'temporary' methods for that same
purpose.
What I'm saying - rather poorly - is that a loaded car might
have been moved from one city to another using just the car
number ... and then a card applied to the tack boards or side
of the car to be used only for the local routing.
Again - not every RR nor in every era for a particular RR ...
but that this was "the practice - at times" and on some RRs.
Correct? Sometimes correct? Was this practice "common"
on particular RRs and/or in particular time frames?

3) A case in point ... did the cards on cars on the SP have
the "spins" info on them during the "spins era"?
- Jim


Re: N&W basket cars

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Chuck,



Do you have a road number series?  I'll see if I have any additional information.



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----


'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:24:21 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] N&W basket cars

 




auto parts

At 11/13/2011 09:56 PM Sunday, you wrote:
What were the Norfolk & Western basket cars used for, and where?
Hopefully Jim Brewer will jump in .
Thanks,
Chuck Hladik



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Placards

Armand Premo
 

Me too,Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Placards




Tony, if you can figure out how to print a sheet of tiny
HO scale "Post-It Note" style placards I think the world might
beat a path to your door... I'd buy a sheet!

If they could be printed with microscopic lettering, we might
be able to get rid of large paper waybills too!

Tim O'Connor

> One problem for the meticulous modeler is that placards for many
>loads were REMOVED on unloading. That's okay if, like me, you have a
>"one-sided" layout, with no reversing loop, because I can put the
>placard only on one side of the model. Then that load placard on one
>side of a car can disappear, simply by turning 180 degrees for the
>following session, and the load-placard side isn't visible. But two-
>sided layouts will require careful staging for this to work. Of course
>a through car which always runs from staging to staging can have
>whatever placard arrangement you wish and it's still okay. The problem
>is with cars you switch, and either an empty gets loaded, or a load
>gets unloaded, with what SHOULD be a corresponding change in placard
>status.
>
>Tony Thompson


Warning Placards

Bill Welch
 

Just a reminder that the most frequent reason to have Warning Placards on refrigerator cars would have been the presence of heaters inside the cars.

Bill Welch


Re: ATSF Ft-W

Tim O'Connor
 

Well, yeah, I thought that much was obvious. But thousands of cars
are in assigned service without the route being stenciled on them...
From the configuration it looks like it carried plate glass or maybe
carbodies.

At 11/14/2011 02:49 AM Monday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
I just had to ask -- Anyone ever see a freight car with the routing
information stenciled on the car before now? "Return via EJ&E-C&O"!
Probably in assigned service.

Tony Thompson


Re: N&W basket cars

Charles Hladik
 

Tim,
Thanks.
Chuck

In a message dated 11/14/2011 2:24:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
timboconnor@... writes:




auto parts

At 11/13/2011 09:56 PM Sunday, you wrote:
What were the Norfolk & Western basket cars used for, and where?
Hopefully Jim Brewer will jump in .
Thanks,
Chuck Hladik





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ATSF Ft-W

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I just had to ask -- Anyone ever see a freight car with the routing information stenciled on the car before now? "Return via EJ&E-C&O"!
Probably in assigned service.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


ATSF Ft-W

Tim O'Connor
 

I just had to ask -- Anyone ever see a freight car with the routing
information stenciled on the car before now? "Return via EJ&E-C&O"!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MFCL/photos/album/758144841/pic/2094738302/view

Tim O'


Re: N&W basket cars

Tim O'Connor
 

auto parts

At 11/13/2011 09:56 PM Sunday, you wrote:
What were the Norfolk & Western basket cars used for, and where?
Hopefully Jim Brewer will jump in .
Thanks,
Chuck Hladik


Tank car identification help, please

Greg Kennelly <gregkennelly@...>
 

Group,

I have uploaded a photograph of Water Car PGE 1931 to an album labelled "Pacific Great Eastern Tank Cars" in the Photos section at the following link http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/1332554694/pic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/1332554694/pic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> . The PGE acquired this car some time in the 1947 - 1950 time period (most likely mid-1950). I am hoping that the size, 7490 - 7499 Imperial Gallons (approximately 8770 US gallons), the arrangement of the tank cradle at the end sills, the interesting hold down band and clamp arrangement at the end of the tank, the use of a dome collar and hold down band, the distinctive tank cradles attached to the centre sill (castings, forgings, or fabricated?) for the first pair of hold down bands either side of the dome, together with the high walkway configuration will provide enough clues for someone to identify the builder and/or the original owner.

Any assistance greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly
Burnaby, BC

89221 - 89240 of 193583