Date   

Re: F&C PRR GR Gondolas - backdating

talltim10
 

Can anyone answer this one?

--- In STMFC@..., "talltim10" <talltim@...> wrote:

Also, any recommendations for the best trucks to use?

Thanks, Tim David


Re: Stock Car Question - now Ice

Bill Welch
 

However the same 300 blocks of ice used in the bunkers would have also been ground and sprayed into cars for those crops, mainly vegetables, that were "top iced" so this ice too should have been as free as possible of bacteria I would think. The few photos I have of ice being moved around on the FGE/WFE/BRE System shows it being done in refrigerator cars, both those in active freight service and those downgraded to "Ice Service."

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "np328" <jcdworkingonthenp@...> wrote:

Ben, there are two type of ice, potable and all other.
Potable ice has to meet the same standards of "fit for human consumption" as drinking water, and this was the ice kept for railroad dining cars, etc. All other ice would be suitable for the bunker of a reefer as it would never contact the product.
However if the ice was sequestered properly in the straw, it might well remain "fit for human consumption", even if in a stock car. As others on this list have pointed out, stock cars were cleaned quite often and so would be less filthy than we imagine them to be.
James Dick - St. Paul

--- In STMFC@..., "benjamin" <bheinley@> wrote:
The DRGW used to haul ice in the winter from Rollinsville to Denver in stock cars. The ice was bedded in straw for the trip. The pictures that my father-in-law took were published in one of the one of the historical society magazines dealing with the DRGW and or the Moffit line a few years ago. The big question is were the cars steam cleaned before handling the ice? Could have been a little extra "local" flavor in your mixed drink otherwise!
I'm sure other roads did the same where hard freeze mountain areas were close to cities with warmer weather. California? East coast states?
Ben Heinley


Re: New Haven Ice car

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Bishop wrote:
I am considering using a Tichy PFE Class R-40-4 reefer as a stand in for the New Haven Ice car I-74. According to the New Haven Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment, I-74 was former PFE 90551, an R-40-8.
Can anyone tell me what the visible differences would be between these two classes?
Steve, they were very similar cars. Certainly most modelers could not tell the difference. Most of the differences, in fact, were internal. The R-40-8 cars were a little taller, but only be about 2.5 inches. (For more information, including photos, see the PFE book; see any post-WW II ORER for dimensions).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Stock Car Question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ben Heinley wrote:
The DRGW used to haul ice in the winter from Rollinsville to Denver in stock cars. The ice was bedded in straw for the trip. The pictures that my father-in-law took were published in one of the one of the historical society magazines dealing with the DRGW and or the Moffit line a few years ago. The big question is were the cars steam cleaned before handling the ice? Could have been a little extra "local" flavor in your mixed drink otherwise!
And if straw was used, you can be sure the ice was not intended to be used in reefers. Straw would clog the bunker drains. You might be thinking that surely reefers weren't iced in winter, and that's true, but the natural ice could be stored for summer use. Just not with straw.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


New Haven Ice car

Stephen Bishop
 

Dear Colleagues:

I am considering using a Tichy PFE Class R-40-4 reefer as a stand in for the New Haven Ice car I-74. According to the New Haven Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment, I-74 was former PFE 90551, an R-40-8.

Can anyone tell me what the visible differences would be between these two classes?

Thanks very much.

Steve Bishop


Re: Re; Pig Iron

water.kresse@...
 

I know I asked this question some time back . . . . but was there a guideline for loading materials like pig iron on the floors of a freight cars?  I've heard stories from retirees talking about seeing "broken" cars filled with pig-iron where folks got lazy and loaded it more at the center of car at the doorway.  It is only common sense to load them concentrated over the bolsters and not to full cap'y.  I heard the rule was 80 percent max with a balanced load, but I don't have anything in writing.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----


From: "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton" <smokeandsteam@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 9:59:01 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re; Pig Iron

Several possibilities exist, but none are easy styrene solution for
the time frame you have in mind; I assume you’re in HO so here are
some possibilities based on my own interests in the area around
Birmingham AL

Gondolas were typically used for pig ron loading with the pigs tending
to be loaded over the bolsters; low sided gons were especially useful.

SOU low sided steeel gons are the obvious choice. For the 30s only the
Speed witch resin kit is appropriate – the Smoky Mountain kit
represents cars as they were rebuilt in the post war period.

I have a photo of a SAL composite gon with pig iron and Sunshine do a
resin kit of such a beast. I’m not sure that composite construction
would have lasted long in this service, but it certainly happened

CofG used cut down USRA cars as noted inana earlier response – the
problem is that while I have copies of diagrams for these I have never
seen a photo

ACL didn’t serve Birmingham in its own right until after WW2 but they
also had a class of low side steel gons that can be kit bashed from
the old ERTL gon

Aidrian
--
Beer has no effect on concrete, but unless the concrete is specially
treated the taste of the beer could be affected. (Military Engineering
Vol XIV, Concrete, WO Code No 8626, 1952.)


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Calling Lonnie Donegan? (was: Pig Iron)

water.kresse@...
 

Thank you Scott for the good laugh . . . I needed that this morning.  Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Pitzer" <scottp459@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 6:03:52 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Calling Lonnie Donegan? (was: Pig Iron)

Just when I thought the Topic of the Day was going to livestock....
somebody brings up pig iron... like when the engineer in the song "Rock Island Line" fools the man at the big toll gate just outside of New-Ah-Leens.
Or, in the Stan Freberg version, he "foo" him...
Scott Pitzer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Stock Car Question

Douglas Harding
 

Ben, stock cars were supposed to be cleaned and disinfected each time after
being used to transport livestock. Steam cleaning was the accepted means,
after one finished with the pitchfork and shovel. Then sand or cinders
several inches deep spread on the floor for traction. In winter straw was
used for bedding, required for hogs.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Stock Car Question - now Ice

np328
 

Ben, there are two type of ice, potable and all other.
Potable ice has to meet the same standards of "fit for human consumption" as drinking water, and this was the ice kept for railroad dining cars, etc. All other ice would be suitable for the bunker of a reefer as it would never contact the product.
However if the ice was sequestered properly in the straw, it might well remain "fit for human consumption", even if in a stock car. As others on this list have pointed out, stock cars were cleaned quite often and so would be less filthy than we imagine them to be.
James Dick - St. Paul

--- In STMFC@..., "benjamin" <bheinley@...> wrote:
The DRGW used to haul ice in the winter from Rollinsville to Denver in stock cars. The ice was bedded in straw for the trip. The pictures that my father-in-law took were published in one of the one of the historical society magazines dealing with the DRGW and or the Moffit line a few years ago. The big question is were the cars steam cleaned before handling the ice? Could have been a little extra "local" flavor in your mixed drink otherwise!
I'm sure other roads did the same where hard freeze mountain areas were close to cities with warmer weather. California? East coast states?
Ben Heinley


Re: Stock Car Question

benjamin
 

The DRGW used to haul ice in the winter from Rollinsville to Denver in stock cars. The ice was bedded in straw for the trip. The pictures that my father-in-law took were published in one of the one of the historical society magazines dealing with the DRGW and or the Moffit line a few years ago. The big question is were the cars steam cleaned before handling the ice? Could have been a little extra "local" flavor in your mixed drink otherwise!

I'm sure other roads did the same where hard freeze mountain areas were close to cities with warmer weather. California? East coast states?


Ben Heinley


Re: Stock Car Question

Douglas Harding
 

Rob, stock cars never reached weight capacity when filled with livestock. A
40' stock car could hold 23, 1200lb steers, that is only 27600lbs or 13,8
tons, well below the capacity of the car. The only way you could over load a
stock car was if you filled it with pig iron instead of pigs. And yes pig
iron could be a possible load in a stock car. They were used to haul
anything that could withstand exposure to the weather and would fit through
the door.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: D&RGW Boxcar Color

Lee Thwaits <leethwaits@...>
 

Star brand paints (from PBL) has D&RGW boxcar red.
Lee Thwaits


Re: Fox Valley (and ExactRail) B&O Wagontop

Bruce Smith
 

John,

You've got the dates right in your email ;^) I suppose this means that
you're asking that timeless question... how quickly did prototype steam
era freight car paint schemes get changed? Actually, the answer is
pretty easy... "It depends" There ya go! Problem solved <G>.

OK, seriously. Prototype cars were repainted approximately every 5-10
years depending on the economics and perspective of the home road and of
course, relying on the car to make it home at some point. For your 1957
era, if you have just a single one of these, I'd go for the mid
1955-1957 "Billboard 13 Great States" scheme from Chris' B&O boxcar
lettering PDF. Obviously, the reweigh date should be between mid 1955
and your modeling date. As noted previously, that scheme is not listed
for the FVM or the Exactrail car. Alternatively, you could go with the
Mid 1946 - Mid 1955 "Post War 13 Great States" and weather the car a bit
more. That would be exactrail SKU 90051

Note that the blue and green schemes listed are both express boxcar
schemes for use in passenger service.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"John Degnan" <Scaler164@...> 11/14/11 7:16 PM >>>
Glad Ken posted this question as I have been meaning to ask this same
thing. I model the year 1957, so I'd like to know which of the schemes
being offered by Fox Valley could have still been seen on the prototypes
up to that year? :

http://www.foxvalleymodels.com/pdfs/jpgs/feb11bobox.jpg

ExactRail is about to release their own model of this car, and they are
offering it in 6 different B&O schemes. So my question applies to the
ExactRail model as well (although their site does show some mediocre
info about the timeline of the schemes they offer) :


http://www.exactrail.com/model-trains?dir=asc&order=name&product_type=2082
Main Product Page

http://www.exactrail.com/b-o-m-53-wagontop-box-car-b-o-2233
Listed as a 1937 and later scheme
(offered in 12 road numbers)

http://www.exactrail.com/b-o-m-53-wagontop-box-car-b-o-2236
Listed as a 1947 and later scheme
(offered in 5 road numbers)

http://www.exactrail.com/b-o-m-53-wagontop-box-car-b-o
Listed as a mid 1945 and later scheme
(offered in 12 road numbers)

http://www.exactrail.com/b-o-m-53-wagontop-box-car-b-o-2234
Listed as a late 1937 and later scheme
(offered in 6 road numbers)

http://www.exactrail.com/b-o-m-53-wagontop-box-car-b-o-2235
Listed as a 1942 - 1959 scheme
(offered in 6 road numbers)


John Degnan
Scaler164@...

--- In STMFC@..., "kenrobbins39" <kenrobbins39@...> wrote:
>
> I recently picked up an HO scale B&O wagontop boxcar imported by Fox
Valley, that has the large B&O lettering. It's a beautiful model and I
really prefer it over the older, smaller lettering, but because I model
the year 1954, I have a concern about the "NEW 6-63" date on the side.
>
> Can anyone on this list tell me when these M-53's were first
repainted with the large B&O lettering?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ken Robbins





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re; Pig Iron

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

Several possibilities exist, but none are easy styrene solution for
the time frame you have in mind; I assume you’re in HO so here are
some possibilities based on my own interests in the area around
Birmingham AL

Gondolas were typically used for pig ron loading with the pigs tending
to be loaded over the bolsters; low sided gons were especially useful.

SOU low sided steeel gons are the obvious choice. For the 30s only the
Speed witch resin kit is appropriate – the Smoky Mountain kit
represents cars as they were rebuilt in the post war period.

I have a photo of a SAL composite gon with pig iron and Sunshine do a
resin kit of such a beast. I’m not sure that composite construction
would have lasted long in this service, but it certainly happened

CofG used cut down USRA cars as noted inana earlier response – the
problem is that while I have copies of diagrams for these I have never
seen a photo

ACL didn’t serve Birmingham in its own right until after WW2 but they
also had a class of low side steel gons that can be kit bashed from
the old ERTL gon

Aidrian
--
Beer has no effect on concrete, but unless the concrete is specially
treated the taste of the beer could be affected. (Military Engineering
Vol XIV, Concrete, WO Code No 8626, 1952.)


Re: Was a 7-ft box car door really . . .

Scott Pitzer
 

Those too-narrow 6' doors were typically too short also, because of the fat door tracks. So they were somewhat in-proportion to the eye.
But it made it difficult for those Weston figures to unload the cars.
Scott Pitzer
________________________________

From: jim_mischke <jmischke@...>

What we call a seven foot door is actually the prototype door opening width.

Previous to that, it was common for modelmakers to make the door itself the
nominal six, seven, eight foot wide. And we customers did not know the
difference. Few if any of us checked drawings.

--

.


Re: Placards

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

After my earlier post about route cards, I received a question about cars for which the route card board location isn't obvious. I had been working on a post about such things, so I just modified it to respond directly to the question. I included both prototype and model photos of locations, with route cards applied. That post can be viewed by this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/11/route-cards-3.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Fox Valley (and ExactRail) B&O Wagontop

John Degnan <Scaler164@...>
 

Glad Ken posted this question as I have been meaning to ask this same thing. I model the year 1957, so I'd like to know which of the schemes being offered by Fox Valley could have still been seen on the prototypes up to that year? :

http://www.foxvalleymodels.com/pdfs/jpgs/feb11bobox.jpg

ExactRail is about to release their own model of this car, and they are offering it in 6 different B&O schemes. So my question applies to the ExactRail model as well (although their site does show some mediocre info about the timeline of the schemes they offer) :

http://www.exactrail.com/model-trains?dir=asc&order=name&product_type=2082
Main Product Page

http://www.exactrail.com/b-o-m-53-wagontop-box-car-b-o-2233
Listed as a 1937 and later scheme
(offered in 12 road numbers)

http://www.exactrail.com/b-o-m-53-wagontop-box-car-b-o-2236
Listed as a 1947 and later scheme
(offered in 5 road numbers)

http://www.exactrail.com/b-o-m-53-wagontop-box-car-b-o
Listed as a mid 1945 and later scheme
(offered in 12 road numbers)

http://www.exactrail.com/b-o-m-53-wagontop-box-car-b-o-2234
Listed as a late 1937 and later scheme
(offered in 6 road numbers)

http://www.exactrail.com/b-o-m-53-wagontop-box-car-b-o-2235
Listed as a 1942 - 1959 scheme
(offered in 6 road numbers)


John Degnan
Scaler164@...

--- In STMFC@..., "kenrobbins39" <kenrobbins39@...> wrote:
>
> I recently picked up an HO scale B&O wagontop boxcar imported by Fox Valley, that has the large B&O lettering. It's a beautiful model and I really prefer it over the older, smaller lettering, but because I model the year 1954, I have a concern about the "NEW 6-63" date on the side.
>
> Can anyone on this list tell me when these M-53's were first repainted with the large B&O lettering?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ken Robbins


Re: Was a 7-ft box car door really . . .

Andy Carlson
 

Yes, and at least one manufacturer, Front Range Products, made that same
mistake.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


________________________________
From: jim_mischke <jmischke@...>




What we call a seven foot door is actually the prototype door opening width.

Previous to that, it was common for modelmakers to make the door itself the
nominal six, seven, eight foot wide. And we customers did not know the
difference. Few if any of us checked drawings.

--


Re: Was a 7-ft box car door really . . .

Jim Mischke
 

What we call a seven foot door is actually the prototype door opening width.

If I recall correctly, this was first pointed out by C&NW boxcar expert Jeff Koeller at a Naperville presentation a few years ago. Previous to that, it was common for modelmakers to make the door itself the nominal six, seven, eight foot wide. And we customers did not know the difference. Few if any of us checked drawings.

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian" <cornbeltroute@...> wrote:

seven feet (for example) wide? Or, was it typical for box car doors to be a bit wider because the actual box car door opening was seven feet (for example) wide, and doors needed to span the opening plus some? If so, was this a common building practice?

Thanks much,

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


Re: Fox Valley B&O wagontop

Jim Mischke
 

Ken, The B&O billboard lettering on B&O boxcars started in 1955, the one you have is a 1962 variation.

The only billboard lettering appropriate to your 1954 era is on hopper cars, with a large ampersand in the large "B&O"

Dr. Chris Barkan made up B&O hopper and boxcar scorecards of B&O lettering schemes and some names. This made sense and wisdom out of what had been total chaos before. There are enough exceptions and variations to warrent more discussion, this will get you started.


B&O Boxcars:

http://borhs.org/Logos/CBarkan/BOBoxcarStenciling1920-60s.pdf



B&O Hoppers:

http://borhs.org/Logos/CBarkan/BOHopperStenciling1940-60s.pdf

--- In STMFC@..., "kenrobbins39" <kenrobbins39@...> wrote:

I recently picked up an HO scale B&O wagontop boxcar imported by Fox Valley, that has the large B&O lettering. It's a beautiful model and I really prefer it over the older, smaller lettering, but because I model the year 1954, I have a concern about the "NEW 6-63" date on the side.

Can anyone on this list tell me when these M-53's were first repainted with the large B&O lettering?

Thanks.

Ken Robbins
Hancock, NH

90281 - 90300 of 194669