Date   

Re: Big Glaring Freight Car Hole

Bill Welch
 

Gerry:

I am not an expert on MDT but I am sure others can furnish information in terms of drawings and the many paint and stenciling schemes for these cars, both in their original form and as they evolved over time. Given the many refrigerator car kits already available (or available in the past) in styrene and resin, this particular prototype, of which there were thousands, sticks out like a sore thumb as a void to be filled.

I would think a logical place for your company to begin would be to purchase a copy of the new MDT book so that you can understand the significance of the cars in question.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry Siegel" <cgsiegel@...> wrote:

Bill,
We have just formed a small company to limited production of models that are not available. We plan to do a limited run to fill orders received and then discontinue that item.
If you and the group can give us an idea of the interest we would be happy to explore it with you further.
Gerry Siegel

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Re: New MDT book

Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, ROGER HINMAN <rhinman11@...> wrote:

The drawings for the book were all done in 2D CAD and originally printed in O scale. It is relatively low tech in this day and age to copy and scale any printed drawing. I would be more than glad to provide a truck center distance for any of the crawings where that dimension does not occur in the book. The intent of the drawings was to capture as accurately as possible the look of a typical car in the various decades of the company's existence using all data sources available.

In addition to corporate history, there is a significant effort to organize and describe the vast amount of equipment this company built or purchased. Of interest to a model buiider is a resource to better help them identify what cars they are interested in by data tables,photographic history, and bibliographic sources. Many on this list have expressed skepticism in many modeler's car drawings published over the years since they have led to some disastrous consequences when an incorrect model was produced. Most manufacturers today prefer to find original drawings. Thanks to the efforts of some libraries and historical societies, many original MDT drawings are available once one acquires the knowledge to know what to look for. This book was my humble attempt to share some of that knowledge.


There is no need for you to defend such a wonderful effort, Roger. Those that need to defend themselves are those who are not sharp enough to realize and appreciate what you have provided for them at a cost of pennies in comparison to the cost for them to go out and find all this information on their own. One simply cannot please all of the people all of the time so I wouldn't worry a wit about those who might cancel.....and then come whining back when they cannot find a copy or find one for which the asking price has not doubled. Keep up the great work!

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Big Glaring Freight Car Hole

ghslaw31
 

Bill,
We have just formed a small company to limited production of models that are not available. We plan to do a limited run to fill orders received and then discontinue that item.
If you and the group can give us an idea of the interest we would be happy to explore it with you further.
Gerry Siegel


Re: New MDT book

Dennis Williams
 

Roger.
  I like the book and all the info.  I wish to thank all that was involved. 
Dennis Williams/Owner
www.resinbuilders4u.com


________________________________
From: ROGER HINMAN <rhinman11@verizon.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New MDT book

The drawings  for the book were all done in 2D CAD and originally printed in O scale. It is relatively low tech in this day and age to copy and scale any printed drawing. I would be more than glad to provide a truck center distance for any of the crawings where that dimension does not occur in the book. The intent of the drawings was to capture as accurately as possible the look of a typical car in the various decades of the company's existence using all data sources available.

In addition to corporate history, there is a significant effort to organize and describe the vast amount of equipment this company built or purchased. Of interest to a model buiider is a resource to better help them identify what cars they are interested in by data tables,photographic history, and bibliographic sources. Many on this list have expressed skepticism in many modeler's car drawings published over the years since they have led to some disastrous consequences when an incorrect model was produced. Most manufacturers today prefer to find original drawings. Thanks to the efforts of some libraries and historical societies, many original MDT drawings are available once one acquires the knowledge to know what to look for. This book was my humble attempt to share some of that knowledge.


Roger Hinman


On Dec 1, 2011, at 6:44 PM, coronadoscalemodels wrote:

We received the new MDT book for stock for our store. People that were wanting it have canceled in buying one. While it is probably a very good corporate history, for the model builder they find it lacking. It would had been a lot nicer if scale drawings were included. Most of our customers are model builders. Instead, the drawings are only 2 views (side and end), with no underframe or cross sections. And they are not printed to any known scale, and no dimensions are given to even scale from. I suppose you can assume the wheelbase of the trucks are 5' 6" and you can go from there. But it would be better to have a longer known dimension.

Were the drawings included in the book part of a more complete drawing that can be obtained elsewhere?

Stan Schwedler
Coronado Scale Models

Listers,
I highly recommend the new MDT book for your resource library.
It is filled with photos, plans, and charts the serious modeler
will find hard to put down. Kudos to Roger Hinman for putting this great volume together.

Fred Freitas


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Yahoo! Groups Links



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Re: New MDT book

ROGER HINMAN
 

The drawings for the book were all done in 2D CAD and originally printed in O scale. It is relatively low tech in this day and age to copy and scale any printed drawing. I would be more than glad to provide a truck center distance for any of the crawings where that dimension does not occur in the book. The intent of the drawings was to capture as accurately as possible the look of a typical car in the various decades of the company's existence using all data sources available.

In addition to corporate history, there is a significant effort to organize and describe the vast amount of equipment this company built or purchased. Of interest to a model buiider is a resource to better help them identify what cars they are interested in by data tables,photographic history, and bibliographic sources. Many on this list have expressed skepticism in many modeler's car drawings published over the years since they have led to some disastrous consequences when an incorrect model was produced. Most manufacturers today prefer to find original drawings. Thanks to the efforts of some libraries and historical societies, many original MDT drawings are available once one acquires the knowledge to know what to look for. This book was my humble attempt to share some of that knowledge.


Roger Hinman


On Dec 1, 2011, at 6:44 PM, coronadoscalemodels wrote:

We received the new MDT book for stock for our store. People that were wanting it have canceled in buying one. While it is probably a very good corporate history, for the model builder they find it lacking. It would had been a lot nicer if scale drawings were included. Most of our customers are model builders. Instead, the drawings are only 2 views (side and end), with no underframe or cross sections. And they are not printed to any known scale, and no dimensions are given to even scale from. I suppose you can assume the wheelbase of the trucks are 5' 6" and you can go from there. But it would be better to have a longer known dimension.

Were the drawings included in the book part of a more complete drawing that can be obtained elsewhere?

Stan Schwedler
Coronado Scale Models

Listers,
I highly recommend the new MDT book for your resource library.
It is filled with photos, plans, and charts the serious modeler
will find hard to put down. Kudos to Roger Hinman for putting this great volume together.

Fred Freitas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Recent NHH&TS "Shoreliner" & Perishables

Bill Welch
 

Peter

Do either or both cover perishable traffic?

Bill

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Ness" <prness@...> wrote:

Hi Bill,

Shoreliner Vol 33 Issues 2 and 3 have articles titled; "West End Freight" and "West End Freight - The Trains". The first article covers operations at New York Harbor while the second article covers freight movement over the rails.

Regards,
Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Welch
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 6:54 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Recent NHH&TS "Shoreliner" & Perishables



Someone tipped that a recent issue or issues of the New Haven
Historical Society's "Shoreliner" magazine has an article that at
least in part discusses the handling of perishables. Is there someone
on this list that point me to which issue or issues I need. I cannot
tell from the descriptions on the website although it appears it may
be either issues Volume 33 Issues #2 or #3 or both.

Thank you!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...

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Re: Recent NHH&TS "Shoreliner" & Perishables

Peter Ness
 

Hi Bill,

Shoreliner Vol 33 Issues 2 and 3 have articles titled; "West End Freight" and "West End Freight - The Trains". The first article covers operations at New York Harbor while the second article covers freight movement over the rails.

Regards,
Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Welch
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 6:54 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Recent NHH&TS "Shoreliner" & Perishables



Someone tipped that a recent issue or issues of the New Haven
Historical Society's "Shoreliner" magazine has an article that at
least in part discusses the handling of perishables. Is there someone
on this list that point me to which issue or issues I need. I cannot
tell from the descriptions on the website although it appears it may
be either issues Volume 33 Issues #2 or #3 or both.

Thank you!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com


Recent NHH&TS "Shoreliner" & Perishables

Bill Welch
 

Someone tipped that a recent issue or issues of the New Haven
Historical Society's "Shoreliner" magazine has an article that at
least in part discusses the handling of perishables. Is there someone
on this list that point me to which issue or issues I need. I cannot
tell from the descriptions on the website although it appears it may
be either issues Volume 33 Issues #2 or #3 or both.

Thank you!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com


Re: Reweigh rules

william darnaby
 

In addition to repack and air brake dates from the 50's the ideal set would
also have an assortment of LT WT and LD LMT weights for typical house cars
as these are frequently patch painted when reweighed. IIRC, Sunshine
did/does have a small set like this but I passed on it as all of the dates
were from the 40's. Yeah, yeah...I know...quit complaining and get busy and
pull info together for some decals. But I have a layout to finish <g>!

Bill Darnaby


Re: New MDT book

Paul Lyons
 

Seem to be a little touchy Tony! (grin)
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:50 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: New MDT book




Stan Schwedler wrote:
We received the new MDT book for stock for our store. People that
were wanting it have canceled in buying one. While it is probably a
very good corporate history, for the model builder they find it
lacking. It would had been a lot nicer if scale drawings were
included. Most of our customers are model builders. Instead, the
drawings are only 2 views (side and end), with no underframe or
cross sections. And they are not printed to any known scale, and no
dimensions are given to even scale from. I suppose you can assume
the wheelbase of the trucks are 5' 6" and you can go from there. But
it would be better to have a longer known dimension.
Here is a superb resource on the MDT's complex car fleet,
INCLUDING fine drawings and dozens of excellent photos, and MODELERS
are "canceling?" What more do they want? Extremely few freight car
books of any kind are as complete and thorough as this one. Yes, I'm
biased, but I think Stan's customers are confused.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New MDT book

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Stan Schwedler wrote:
We received the new MDT book for stock for our store. People that were wanting it have canceled in buying one. While it is probably a very good corporate history, for the model builder they find it lacking. It would had been a lot nicer if scale drawings were included. Most of our customers are model builders. Instead, the drawings are only 2 views (side and end), with no underframe or cross sections. And they are not printed to any known scale, and no dimensions are given to even scale from. I suppose you can assume the wheelbase of the trucks are 5' 6" and you can go from there. But it would be better to have a longer known dimension.
Here is a superb resource on the MDT's complex car fleet, INCLUDING fine drawings and dozens of excellent photos, and MODELERS are "canceling?" What more do they want? Extremely few freight car books of any kind are as complete and thorough as this one. Yes, I'm biased, but I think Stan's customers are confused.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: New MDT book

coronadoscalemodels
 

We received the new MDT book for stock for our store. People that were wanting it have canceled in buying one. While it is probably a very good corporate history, for the model builder they find it lacking. It would had been a lot nicer if scale drawings were included. Most of our customers are model builders. Instead, the drawings are only 2 views (side and end), with no underframe or cross sections. And they are not printed to any known scale, and no dimensions are given to even scale from. I suppose you can assume the wheelbase of the trucks are 5' 6" and you can go from there. But it would be better to have a longer known dimension.

Were the drawings included in the book part of a more complete drawing that can be obtained elsewhere?

Stan Schwedler
Coronado Scale Models

Listers,
I highly recommend the new MDT book for your resource library.
It is filled with photos, plans, and charts the serious modeler
will find hard to put down. Kudos to Roger Hinman for putting this great volume together.

Fred Freitas


Re: Big Glaring Freight Car Hole

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 1, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Bill Welch wrote:

I realize we all have opinions about the obvious holes in the types
of freight cars yet to be offered in kit form, but in my own opinion,
and as the new MDT book will help underscore and document the
numerous possibilities, the largest class of Wood Sheathed MDT
reefers built with DS ends and fishbelly u/f begs to be offered.
Maybe there are some resinators lurking that will do this, although I
think it is the kind of thing that could be justified in styrene too.
Agreed. I could certainly use one.

Richard Hendrickson


Big Glaring Freight Car Hole

Bill Welch
 

I realize we all have opinions about the obvious holes in the types
of freight cars yet to be offered in kit form, but in my own opinion,
and as the new MDT book will help underscore and document the
numerous possibilities, the largest class of Wood Sheathed MDT
reefers built with DS ends and fishbelly u/f begs to be offered.
Maybe there are some resinators lurking that will do this, although I
think it is the kind of thing that could be justified in styrene too.

I'm just say'in.

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com


Re: Reweigh rules

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, you make it sound trivial, but it isn't. For one thing, I need
reweigh lettering for more than 100 railroads.
Sorry, no intention to make it sound trivial. But wringing
one's hands isn't helping. I only mentioned a way to START fixing the
problem. And as Tim says, the Sunshine sets are certainly a help. I
suggested to Martin some time back that he issue sheets of dates only,
like the Champ set, but so far he shows no sign of doing so. Perhaps
if others were to suggest the same to him . . .
I think Tim makes a good point about multiple railroads. Awhile
back, Richard Hendrickson and I each looked through a fair number of
freight car photos, to see what proportion of reweigh locations were
on-line for the owning railroad of each car. We estimated
independently that it is 80 to 90 percent home road symbols. So we
really DO need lots of railroad symbols.
But that said, I'm not sure I buy Tim’s statement that we need
100 railroads. I have about 70 prototype railroad waybill headers now,
certainly covering all the largest North American railroads and many
smaller ones. Striving for 100 would be AWFULLY complete.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Reweigh rules

Andy Carlson
 

Tim,

For specific applications where you need an unavailable reweigh stencil, may I
suggest a technique a friend of mine uses? He takes advantage of the method
printers we use which lay down everything EXCEPT White, which is simply left-off
by omission.


First: He will copy a close-up scan of the reweigh are he wished replicated.
After cleaning up the image, he produces a final, cleaned up scan.

Second: Cut a window in some copier paper equal to the size of the small piece
of clear decal film, and tape this piece into the cut-out window. Load this
paper into the paper tray of a color laser printer.

Third: Before issuing the "Print" command, reduce the scan's image to the actual
size desired. Select a color for the background, any color which is close to
actual. Printing in a color laser scanner, the Red area will have clear
lettering and numbering on the decal film.


Fourth: Decide which color you want the data to be, and paint a small patch
barely large enough to be underneath the decal in its final position (like
white). Trim the decal to the size of the original patch from the photo you are
working with. Placing the decal over this patched are will show as a repainted
patch color with white data.


My friend was doing this before he even owned a color laser printer by going to
a copy center.


There are decal papers which are white, and if followed by the above technique,
you can eliminate the placing a white patch on your model.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor



Tony, you make it sound trivial, but it isn't. For one thing,
I need reweigh lettering for more than 100 railroads. For another,
not all railroads used the same size lettering, or the same style
of lettering. It's true that I could make up some lettering for
SP, say, but lately my problem has been C&NW, WP, AT&SF, B&O, SAL,
ACL, ... et al. Like Bill Darnaby, I bought ALL of Sunshine's
reweigh decals which have a wonderful variety of station symbols
and lettering styles for 64 railroads by my count. But a dearth of
1950's dates and virtually nothing for the 1960's (which I also want).

And then there's also COLOR. Lately I've been scrounging for yellow,
silver, and black. Champ's are all white. Sunshine offered only one
sheet with black decals for 15 roads, and seven sheets with white
lettering for 63 roads, plus a PFE sheet.

I agree custom sets can help, but I'd need a LOT of different custom
sets to cover my needs, and that means I'd also need to learn a great
deal more than I really want to (or have time to) know about the
lettering used by a lot of railroads.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Reweigh rules

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

No. When the weight data on a car "timed out," it not supposed to be
accepted in interchange - and therefore, in effect, couldn't be
loaded - until it was reweighed. This was often carried out offline
by another railroad, not by the owner (though most car owners seem to
have been relatively conscientious about reweighing cars whose dates
were close to expiring whenever they came back onto home rails).
When empty, cars with expired reweigh dates were routed to the
nearest track scales to be reweighed and restenciled...
Re-weighing was an item that, like many others, had an AAR standard charge applied with the bill sent to the owning road. I suspect that many roads felt they could do it themselves cheaper, since they were paying people to be on the RIP track and at the scales regardless.

I remember reading an interesting comment, either here or on the CP SIG list, about a small terminal in western Canada where the car foremen had his inspectors specifically instructed to look for foreign MTys with expired scale dates. I guess he felt the charges earned for re-weighing the cars helped justified the expense of his little fifedom.

Dennis


Re: Reweigh rules

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony, you make it sound trivial, but it isn't. For one thing,
I need reweigh lettering for more than 100 railroads. For another,
not all railroads used the same size lettering, or the same style
of lettering. It's true that I could make up some lettering for
SP, say, but lately my problem has been C&NW, WP, AT&SF, B&O, SAL,
ACL, ... et al. Like Bill Darnaby, I bought ALL of Sunshine's
reweigh decals which have a wonderful variety of station symbols
and lettering styles for 64 railroads by my count. But a dearth of
1950's dates and virtually nothing for the 1960's (which I also want).

And then there's also COLOR. Lately I've been scrounging for yellow,
silver, and black. Champ's are all white. Sunshine offered only one
sheet with black decals for 15 roads, and seven sheets with white
lettering for 63 roads, plus a PFE sheet.

I agree custom sets can help, but I'd need a LOT of different custom
sets to cover my needs, and that means I'd also need to learn a great
deal more than I really want to (or have time to) know about the
lettering used by a lot of railroads.

Tim O'Connor

When reweighing a LOT of freight cars for the 1956-1960 era, I'm
shocked by how LITTLE decal material is available for the post-1950
era . . .
That's probably what we ALL say about our own era. <g> Simple
fix: Jerry Glow will make decals. My SP tank car set has a LOT of late
'40s and early '50s reweigh dates and locations, mostly SP with some
SSW, UP and PFE locations. Any SP modeler of that time period will get
all they need in Jerry's set. But more to the point, anyone can do the
same for their own needs.

Tony Thompson


Re: Reweigh rules

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike, it's never too late to reweigh. In fact, I'd say the best
time is AFTER you have finished weathering the car -- then put a
paint patch or two on the car side, apply decals, add a light coat
of flat or satin and Voila! you've got a shiny new reweigh on an
otherwise dirty car. Very realistic! Some of the cars that I've
been reweighing lately were "finished" more than 10 years ago.

Tim O'Connor

In the early 50's passengers on UP trains passing over Sherman Hill
complained about the blowing sand on the windows, etc. To solve this
problem, UP apparently dumped used oil on the tracks to dampen the sand
issue. Video programs show a rather black roadbed/ballast appearance during
this time. Having spent some time in southeastern WY I can vouch for the
blowing sand [ as can my video camera ]. It is interesting to note, however,
that prior to that time, the area to the left of the box car door seems to
receive more weathering than in some other areas. I note that this is
particularly true on older models...those that I decaled prior to
understanding the reweigh rules.

Mike Brock...heading for my shelter


Re: Reweigh rules

Tim O'Connor
 

Many years ago I bought a pair of Xuron model 3C tweezers -- these
are extremely fine, sharply pointed tweezers. I use them to make very
small movements of tiny decal bits. In addition, I frequently "stab"
a decal to release tiny trapped air bubbles (after the decal has
softened a bit) and because they are so sharp there is no evidence
of this. It's much easier to use than a knife blade, although I have
done that too occasionally, especially when the blade is used to
transport the decal from the water to the model.

Tim O'Connor

This is precisely what I do - using a microbrush to add the water and knife tip to move the decal.
Regards
Bruce

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