Date   

Re: In praise of 0.005 styrene

Gary Roe
 

On Behalf Of Bill Welch

This just reminds me one more time how valuable this Evergreen
product is.

Bill Welch


Bill,

I am grateful for ALL of the Evergreen products, and would be totally lost
without them. I hope they never go away.

gary roe
quincy, illinois


Re: KRLX 6777

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 22, 2011, at 8:58 AM, Larry Sexton wrote:

At some point after January 1942 and prior to June 1947, the
reporting marks
for Kingan & Company (K.R.L.X.) should show up as leasing meat
reefers under
the National Car Company and the lease would run for some time
thereafter.
What can anyone tell me the earliest date KRLX reporting marks
appeared
under the National Car Company, and what car series was listed in
the ORER?
Larry, the KRLX reporting marks aren't listed under National Car Co.
(or elsewhere) in the 7/43 or 1/45 ORERs.

See you soon at CB.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: In praise of 0.005 styrene

Jack Burgess
 

Thanks Bill...

I don't use .005" styrene that often but when I do, I use CA to bond
it...the MEK I use for styrene is just too "hot".

Jack


Re: NYC freight car colors for 1951

Benjamin Hom
 

Fenton Wells asked:
"I am getting ready to assemble a few of the F&C kits for the NYC 40 gon. F&C
box

shows them as boxcar red, but I've seen pictures of them in balck. Which color
is correct for a 1951 era paint scheme? Any NYC experts out there that can offer

some good advice?"

Courtesy of Terry Link:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm
Scroll 1/3 of the way down the page.


Ben Hom


Re: NYC herald

Benjamin Hom
 

Tom Dill asked:
"Could someone tell me when the NYC painted the background of their herald
black?

Seems to me that it was black for some time, then just color of car for a time
after WW1, then back to black. This is in reference to the new BLI boxcar that
has come out, but would like to know the standard practice for painting their
frt. car fleet from say, 1930 to 1955."

Courtesy of Terry Link:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm
Scroll 1/3 of the way down the page.


Ben Hom


NYC herald

tomedill@frontier.com
 

Could someone tell me when the NYC painted the background of their herald black? Seems to me that it was black for some time, then just color of car for a time after WW1, then back to black. This is in reference to the new BLI boxcar that has come out, but would like to know the standard practice for painting their frt. car fleet from say, 1930 to 1955.
thanks, Tom Dill


Re: KRLX 6777

Larry Sexton
 

I have a question and I’m hoping that members of the group can provide
various bits of information to provide an answer.



The photo that I have is of KRLX 6777 and most definitely appears to be an
FGE type car with the type of steel roof modeled by the Accurail reefers.
The reweigh date is 6/47 and the car appears clean and recently lettered for
Kingan & Company (K.R.L.X.) and Brine tank service. It definitely looks
like an ex-FGE or rebuilt FGE reefer. The photo shows a ¾ view and you can
clearly see how the end channel sits on top of the side sill channel and is
connected by the trapezoidal steel plate that mounts the poling pocket and
joins the two channels.

Thanks for sharing. One other thing, you can also distinguish the FGE style
hatch rest on the roof.



At some point after January 1942 and prior to June 1947, the reporting marks
for Kingan & Company (K.R.L.X.) should show up as leasing meat reefers under
the National Car Company and the lease would run for some time thereafter.
What can anyone tell me the earliest date KRLX reporting marks appeared
under the National Car Company, and what car series was listed in the ORER?



The January 1942 ORER lists the National Car Company as have cars in series
NX 6600-6649 (31 cars) as being 41’ 08” and 12’ 07” at the eves. NX
6650-6689 (24 cars) as being 41’ 02” and 12’ 07” at the eves. Bill Welch has
indicated he believes this is one of the short cars owned by NX and is a
good candidate for the surgery Bruce Smith performed on an Accurail reefer
to create one of the many 36-37 foot cars NX owned. He is convinced these
are cars FGE/NX created using the hundreds of the PRR's RF reefers and
applying new u/f's. I am not questioning Bill’s assessment.



However, I would like to determine when they first show up in the ORER and
what their dimensional data is.



Wishing you a Merry Christmas.

Larry Sexton









_



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


NYC freigth car colors for 1951

O Fenton Wells
 

I am getting ready to assemble a few of the F&C kits for the NYC 40 gon. F&C box shows them as boxcar red, but I've seen pictures of them in balck. Which color is correct for a 1951 era paint scheme? Any NYC experts out there that can offer some good advice?
Thanks in advance,
Fenton Wells


In praise of 0.005 styrene

Bill Welch
 

I have been busy tweaking and improving some details on two Central
of Georgia ventilated boxcars which has meant frequently consulting
the several photos I have of these cars. Early on I noticed there is
a metal flashing extending from doorstop to doorstop covering the
tops of the two doors. The bottom portion of this flashing is creased
and bent out allowing it to cover the tops of the doors. This is the
kind of detail that needs a very thin material to model it. While I
have been attending to the other enhancements, I have been going over
in my head how I could model this flashing and attach it. Initially I
was going to use sheet brass as I had on a couple of TN&O SS boxcars
w/Allen doors, but I was having difficulty sorting out how to mount
it and have it project out far enough to cover the tops of the doors.

Despite constantly looking at the model I had not noticed there was
essentially a groove under the roof eve and above the side of the car
where as it turns out I could fit .020 x .030 styrene strip.
Immediately I realized I could use Evergreen 0.005 styrene sheeting
and I started making the parts this morning and I think the results
will be satisfying. The bent out portion is especially satisfying.
Like brass sheeting it also possible damage the edges and ends of the
thin styrene to model what happened on the real cars.

This just reminds me one more time how valuable this Evergreen
product is. It is something I use for any number things--veneers,
batten strips and gusset plates are three that immediately come to
mind. Shimming is obvious. It does require great care when using
Testers or similar solvents because it is so thin and it can be
distorted easily by these. What I do is wick the Testers into the
joint and immediately blow on it. Perhaps I should explain what I
mean by using it for veneering. On resin kits where there are
sometimes very small parts, and rather than ACCing these directly to
wherever they go, I will ACC the small part to thin styrene and ACC a
small bit of the same styrene to the appropriate location on the
model. If I make a mistake locating this bit of styrene, I can easily
lift it off and try again. Then I can use Testers to locate the small
detail part, positioning just right since the Testers takes time to
set up. This works great with items like door stops, door supports etc.

In case you have never used this product, I strongly suggest you pick
some up and experiment with it.
Bill Welch


Re: C&WI H&B Gondola

Ray Breyer
 

There was a nice set of photos of Hart car plowing, shown in 
Railway Age in 1900.  For those with access to Railway Age, the 
article was in the issue for October 12, 1900 (Vol. 30, pp. 286-291). 
Tony Thompson 
A scanned copy of the second half of 1900's The Railway Age is on Google Books, if anyone's interested.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: C&WI H&B Gondola

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
As you can see there were several variations on the theme, but the illustrations of unloading the cars with a ballast plow shown on page 806 are the style the C&WI cars are . . .
There was a nice set of photos of Hart car plowing, shown in Railway Age in 1900. I reprinted these in my volume 1 on Southern Pacific Freight Cars, p. 40. For those with access to Railway Age, the article was in the issue for October 12, 1900 (Vol. 30, pp. 286-291). It's a clear series of photos of a Lidgerwood engine pulling the plow through the gondolas. The rate of car damage, especially in wood- sheathed cars, can only be imagined.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: C&WI H&B Gondola

Paul Hillman
 

Dennis,

Oh!!! - THOSE kinds of "hopper-details". Yes, I've seen that on other ballast cars, but back in the late 1950's I saw these cars on the C&WI, and drew a dwg. of one, but as I remember they all had flat floors. Don't know when they would have been converted.

Paul Hillman

----- Original Message -----
From: soolinehistory<mailto:destorzek@...<mailto:destorzek%40mchsi.com>>
To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 12:57 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: C&WI H&B Gondola

Nice model. The car used to be in better shape, in fact, it was used in some minor budget movie that filmed at IRM in the seventies. I took a series of detail photos of this same car back then, if I can find the prints, I'll try to scan them this weekend. You really need the cast brackets that go between the I section needle beams and the sills.

Before someone objects to the lack of hopper details, the C&WI removed the hoppers years ago and gave the car a solid deck. Another one of these cars lost it's upper structure, and the frame and deck are now the boom car for C&WI 1900, the museum's 100 ton steam wrecker.

Dennis


Re: C&WI H&B Gondola

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Paul Hillman" <chris_hillman@...> wrote:

Thanks Dennis,

Yes, several more scratchbuilt details will be needed, like the cast brackets that go between the I section needle beams and the sills, and the coupler striker-plates, what I guess is called a Miner brake-ratchet assy., and a bunch more stuff.

What is the story about the "hopper details" that you mentioned? I hadn't heard about that yet.

Would be great to see some photos of these cars painted & lettered. I have only distant, in-service photos of them.

Paul Hillman
These are examples of one style of the Hart ballast car built by the Rodger Ballast Car Co. that were just being discussed. This company held the patents and marketed the cars, subcontracting actual construction of the cars to other builders, most often AC&F or H&B. The design went through several sages of improvement over the years and eventually morphed into the Hart Selectable ballast hopper that Atlas makes a model of. Here is a ling to some period literature scanned by Google Books:

http://books.google.com/books?id=lLApAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA799&lpg=PA799&dq=hart+ballast+gondola&source=bl&ots=46CWnOm4xL&sig=SArdu9kpQc5HqX5-Egl4zEx5yt0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tU7yTt21NYLL0QHnn8WZAg&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=hart%20ballast%20gondola&f=false

As you can see there were several variations on the theme, but the illustrations of unloading the cars with a ballast plow shown on page 806 are the style the C&WI cars are. There would have originally been a shallow hopper between the bolsters, with removable panels that could either form a flat floor when set up for side dumping, or slope sheets against the side doors when set up for center dumping. The evidence in the structure of the underframe, with the needle beams mounted abnormally low to make space for the hoppers, which were removed long before the car went to the museum. As explained in the linked article, normal track maintenance usually makes use of center dumping, while side dumping is used for building and widening embankments.

In case anyone wondered, C&WI is the Chicago & Western Indiana, the operating company for Chicago's Dearborn Station.

Dennis


Re: C&WI H&B Gondola

Paul Hillman
 

Thanks Dennis,

Yes, several more scratchbuilt details will be needed, like the cast brackets that go between the I section needle beams and the sills, and the coupler striker-plates, what I guess is called a Miner brake-ratchet assy., and a bunch more stuff.

What is the story about the "hopper details" that you mentioned? I hadn't heard about that yet.

Would be great to see some photos of these cars painted & lettered. I have only distant, in-service photos of them.

Paul Hillman

----- Original Message -----
From: soolinehistory<mailto:destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 12:57 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: C&WI H&B Gondola



Nice model. The car used to be in better shape, in fact, it was used in some minor budget movie that filmed at IRM in the seventies. I took a series of detail photos of this same car back then, if I can find the prints, I'll try to scan them this weekend. You really need the cast brackets that go between the I section needle beams and the sills.

Before someone objects to the lack of hopper details, the C&WI removed the hoppers years ago and gave the car a solid deck. Another one of these cars lost it's upper structure, and the frame and deck are now the boom car for C&WI 1900, the museum's 100 ton steam wrecker.

Dennis


Re: C&WI H&B Gondola

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "behillman" <chris_hillman@...> wrote:

I just posted some photos of my progress on an HO, C&WI, Haskell & Barker, wood, side-dump gondola, in the photo-file:

Haskell & Barker Wood Side-Dump Gondolas

This started as a resin, Funaro & Camerlengo, Rutland kit. I am building it as per C&WI car #1185, at the Illinois RR museum.

I scribed and wood-grained the inner door surfaces and added the vertical metal-straps and Archer rivets, and scratchbuilt the car-ends.

The wooden, queen-post supports were replaced with steel I-beams and the AB brake parts had a different than "normal" layout.

Still a lot of detail to add. Does anyone have any close-up pix of these C&WI cars? I have only found distant shots of them in service but have several pix of the IRR museum car. (In poor shape.) I need to determine the car lettering better.

Paul Hillman
Nice model. The car used to be in better shape, in fact, it was used in some minor budget movie that filmed at IRM in the seventies. I took a series of detail photos of this same car back then, if I can find the prints, I'll try to scan them this weekend. You really need the cast brackets that go between the I section needle beams and the sills.

Before someone objects to the lack of hopper details, the C&WI removed the hoppers years ago and gave the car a solid deck. Another one of these cars lost it's upper structure, and the frame and deck are now the boom car for C&WI 1900, the museum's 100 ton steam wrecker.

Dennis


Re: SAL 20200-20209 (was: Left Opening Box Car Doors)

al_brown03
 

Oh, and check out the Dalman-Andrews trucks.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

Looking at a few pictures of these, I remembered just how weird they are. It's hard to see from this angle, but as the picture in Wayner's book shows, the door track tapers in at the left end. The doors are on separate tracks, so the left-hand door can open in front of the right, and then both can slide over to open the whole left-hand half of the side -- a 20' opening. The doors on the other side are offset, so the whole interior can be open at once, half from each side.

SAL 15000-16999 were built in 1930, as single-sheathed cars with centered 6' single doors and 8'7" IH (class B-5). They were based on the ARA's 50-ton 4D-XM1 design, and had Pratt truss side framing and fishbelly underframes. Starting in '52, SAL rebuilt about 1000 of them with steel sides and 6' or 8' Youngstown doors, retaining the original height, and renumbered them in the 14000 series; after '57 another 200 were similarly rebuilt and numbered 20000-20199. For the history see Golden, Lines South 4th/04, pp 22-30.

The double-door design with the 20' opening was tested on SAL 20053, still at the original height; for a photo showing the left door open in front of the right see Faulk, "SAL Color Guide", p 50. SAL 20200-20209 are an improved version with IH 10'5" and corrugated ends: see Faulk again. The timeline in Golden's article suggests that 20200-20209 may have been rebuilt directly from composite cars rather than from cars that already had steel sides, but I don't know for sure.

A formidable kitbash is described by Edwards, RMC 1/96 pp 72-75.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@> wrote:

Craig

Brilliant! In the back of my mind I thought there was such a
car but I'd forgotten where I'd seen it -- There's a photo of
SAL #20203 on page 56 of Wayner's "Freight Car Pictorial". SAL
had 10 such cars, rebuilt in 1957.

Tim O'Connor


Bruce,
You mean like this one?
http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/rm/SAL20209Raleigh1962-1200.jpg
<GRIN>
The other side was arranged identically…designed for lumber loading reportedly.
Craig Zeni
Cary NC


C&WI H&B Gondola

Paul Hillman
 

I just posted some photos of my progress on an HO, C&WI, Haskell & Barker, wood, side-dump gondola, in the photo-file:

Haskell & Barker Wood Side-Dump Gondolas

This started as a resin, Funaro & Camerlengo, Rutland kit. I am building it as per C&WI car #1185, at the Illinois RR museum.

I scribed and wood-grained the inner door surfaces and added the vertical metal-straps and Archer rivets, and scratchbuilt the car-ends.

The wooden, queen-post supports were replaced with steel I-beams and the AB brake parts had a different than "normal" layout.

Still a lot of detail to add. Does anyone have any close-up pix of these C&WI cars? I have only found distant shots of them in service but have several pix of the IRR museum car. (In poor shape.) I need to determine the car lettering better.

Paul Hillman


Let's make a deal

csxt5555
 

Hey guys, anyone want to make a deal.  Here's the deal.  I model in 1/8th scale.  I buy these kits and measure the parts then I don't need them.  Anybody want to work with me and let me measure them and then take them off my hands?
 
-Kevin

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: WM hoppers

Larry Kline
 

The summary of hopper classes is available at:
http://www.alphabetroute.com/wm/1972FrtDgms/Summ-Hop.pdf

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

On Dec 20, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Larry Kline wrote:

The WM had five types of hoppers in the 1950s. There were two types of channel side hoppers, fishbelly hoppers, and two types of triple hoppers. The channel side hoppers were similar to USRA hoppers but the side stakes were channels. The fishbelly hoppers had sides that dropped below the end sills. The triple hoppers were two standard Bethlehem Steel designs.

I just made a folder in the photos section called "WM hopper info" and sent 2 tables. One shows ORER counts vs time from 1939 to 1959. The second is a list of hopper diagrams from a ca. 1971 WM diagram book. The diagram book summary page gives the car types (HM or HT), the built dates, builder, and builder order number for the various hopper types. The older channel side cars in the 16500-21179 series are not listed because they all had been retired when the diagram book was issued. They were rebuilt starting in 1927 from hoppers originally built in 1916-17. When built, these cars had hat shaped side stakes.

The tables are waiting for moderator approval.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

David Thompson wrote:
Anyone know of a comprehensive source of info on Western Maryland steel hoppers? I have a rough idea of what they had over the years, but there are some gaps I'd like to fill in, particularly after World War II.


40' boxcars with 20' doors

spsalso
 

The GN also had one of these: GN 29001. It shows up in my April 1958 ORER as a new car. It's in the January 1976 but not in the April 1980. I recall it as looking similar to the SAL cars. I wonder if it was inspired by them. It was apparently an unsuccessful experiment, as GN never copied it. And I wonder what it was for--wood trusses come to mind.


Ed

Edward Sutorik