Date   

Re: Suitability of Foreign General Service Flat Cars on Line

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Bruce,

You wrote:

(snip)

What might be some good roadnames for 53'6" AAR 50 ton flats
transporting
goods (especially military cargo) on the PRR in 1944? (I have one each
of
the NKP and CNW from the 1st release).
Much like boxcars, there was a shortage of General Service Flat Cars
during WW II continuing on until the early 1950's. In a speech before a
Chicago Traffic Club in January 1951, RAILWAY AGE reported that John
McCafferty, President of International Harvester, complained that the
shortage of flat cars was causing Harvester to seek other means to
transport farm equipment from factory to customer.

In June 1951, the B&M finally got their flat #33509 back on home rails
after a two and a half year hiatus in order to convert its K brake
system to AB - the B&M had been trying to get #33509 back on line for a
year, but it was being reloaded, once as close as New Haven CT, and
routed away. Only with the cooperation of the MoP and NYC who put a "no
loading" tag on it did #33509 return to the B&M.

General Service Flat Cars like Boxcars were free rollers, reloaded and
routed to consignees with little regard to the direction of the home
road. This was most pronounced during WW II, but continued on until the
1950's. Just about any General Service Flat Car could show up on any
road. During the War, the War Dept. was not too concerned with whose
flat car carried what piece of equipment.

Tim Gilbert


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Ian Cranstone
 

Previously written:

shelf full of P2K flat cars with the little "this scheme may not be
prototypical" labels on them<

This is interesting I never have seen this. I thought LL P2K didn't do
such a thing! And if they did then why didn't they make the '40 CGW and
paste a sticker on it <VBG>.
Likely cars imported by Life Like Canada (Canadian Hobbycraft) with Canadian
paint schemes. I seem to recall that LLC took some flak a while back since
the U.S. prototype models didn't match the Canadian-built prototypes they
were lettering for. This was their solution.

Frankly, the P2K models are not bad stand-ins for the Canadian cars -- and
since no one has offered better models so far in any form, I can certainly
live with them. Besides, the P2K kits are really quite nice. Now if LLC
would just get away from their habit of making some silly mistakes in their
lettering...

--
Ian Cranstone
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

armprem
 

Ben,I might be interested in some of those P2K flat cars.Do you have an
address ? Armand

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 4:23 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars


Bruce F. Smith wrote re: slow selling P2K flatcars:
Yeah, as I recall, the cars were decorated for CP, CN and BCR.

And you wonder why they've been sitting on the shelf in an Alabama
hobbyshop...


Ben Hom




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Re: Suitability of Foreign General Service Flat Cars on Line

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Bruce,

You wrote:

(snip)

What might be some good roadnames for 53'6" AAR 50 ton flats
transporting
goods (especially military cargo) on the PRR in 1944? (I have one each
of
the NKP and CNW from the 1st release).
The NKP and CNW flats are
transporting M3 halftracks and Shermans respectively from the Detroit
Arsenal to New Jersey for shipment to the European theater. Of
course, as
Richard pointed out in part of his note that I snipped, flat cars were
snapped up...I've got a picture in a book of a Southern flat car being
loaded with Shermans in the Detroit Arsenal.

Of course, in I do have some other classes of flats, like PRR F30A and
FM
cars, and a Norwest C.P. 336260-Series Flat Car (yeah, I know...the
car
service rules say that's not supposed to happen...except that there is
a
nice photo in the Signal Corps archives of CP308063 in Newport News
http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/02/085.jpg - I wonder how it got
there?
<G>). I know of the Red Caboose (NYC prototype right?) and the Tichy
flat...any other good prototypical models out there? Is there going
to be
one in the Marklin U.P. series that would be appropriate for '44?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
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Re: BC&G hoppers

armprem
 

Larry,Sept 1931 OER lists 600 1061to1600 cars and 300 1601 to1900 cars .

Armand-- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Smith" <wooddale@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] BC&G hoppers


Please give it a check and see if they are listed

Larry

Armand Premo wrote:

Larry,The best I can do is a 1931.Armand
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Smith" <wooddale@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 4:59 PM
Subject: [STMFC] BC&G hoppers

I was refered to a site that contained a lot of photos of one of my
favorite railroads, the Buffalo Creek and Gauley. In one of the
photos,
taken at the Widon tipple in 1925 that the BC&G had two types of
hoppers. The 1000 series is definitly Gla style while the 1700 series
looks like a USRA clone. First does anyone have a 1925 ORER and can
look up how many cars were in the 1700 series and what is the data on
them, or better yet, does anyone have any info on these cars.

Larry Smith



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Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bruce F. Smith wrote re: slow selling P2K flatcars:
Yeah, as I recall, the cars were decorated for CP, CN and BCR.

And you wonder why they've been sitting on the shelf in an Alabama
hobbyshop...


Ben Hom


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

CP, CN and BCR<
Ah, now I see. These are probably cars imported by LL Canada. A couple
of years ago there was some controversy about the LL Canada cars didn't fit
the wording on the LL box about being correct, false advertising and all
that. So LL Canada fixed this with the sticker I guess.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

I said:
shelf full of P2K flat cars with the little "this scheme may not be
prototypical" labels on them<
Jon replies:
This is interesting I never have seen this. I thought LL P2K didn't do
such a thing! And if they did then why didn't they make the '40 CGW and
paste a sticker on it <VBG>.
Yeah, as I recall, the cars were decorated for CP, CN and BCR. I was
really surprised to see the stickers, but there they were, on the end of
the box!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
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Naperville/Sunshine Models - please read

ted_culotta <ted_culotta@...>
 

I just finished buying a ticket on United's web site for Naperville/Sunshine
Models. I suggest that if you're going, you take a look. My total for a round trip
ticket was $188 from San Francisco. I have been to Chicago at least thirty
times in the past few years and that was by far the lowest. If you're headed to
Naperville, this may be a good time to buy. If you're not, this may be a reason
to go.

Regards,
Ted


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

shelf full of P2K flat cars with the little "this scheme may not be
prototypical" labels on them<

This is interesting I never have seen this. I thought LL P2K didn't do
such a thing! And if they did then why didn't they make the '40 CGW and
paste a sticker on it <VBG>.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Taber's GUIDE TO RAILROAD HISTORICAL RESOURCES

Ned Carey <westernmd@...>
 

From: "Roger Miener"
Yes, back then - the pre-1978 days - if back in those days you did not
dot your 'i's' and cross your 't's' you were dead meat. Back then, a
failure to include a notice of copyright was tantamount to being a
dedication of one's work to the public domain.
So Roger, if something was published without the copyright notice before '78
it went into the public domain. Did the changes that were made in '78 give
the rights for those items back to the owner, or did those things remain in
the public domain.

Ned


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

No lettering info for the 1940 CGW lot eh?
When did CGW change lettering schemes?
Richard replied:
We don't know that they did. The problem is that we don't know that they
didn't, and L-L is understandably reluctant to issue models with p/l based
on speculation.
And I can understand why! If its not available, I'll strip a car and
repaint it, but if its wrong, I'll likely as not, not buy it (at least not
right away, and not for full price...I might buy it on sale as stripping
fodder). My closest hobby shop (50 miles) has a shelf full of P2K flat
cars with the little "this scheme may not be prototypical" labels on
them...course, he's shutting down in a few weeks as he is moving "up nawth"
(to North Carolina) so I'm waiting for the Going out of Business sale to
snap them up <G>.

What might be some good roadnames for 53'6" AAR 50 ton flats transporting
goods (especially military cargo) on the PRR in 1944? (I have one each of
the NKP and CNW from the 1st release). The NKP and CNW flats are
transporting M3 halftracks and Shermans respectively from the Detroit
Arsenal to New Jersey for shipment to the European theater. Of course, as
Richard pointed out in part of his note that I snipped, flat cars were
snapped up...I've got a picture in a book of a Southern flat car being
loaded with Shermans in the Detroit Arsenal.

Of course, in I do have some other classes of flats, like PRR F30A and FM
cars, and a Norwest C.P. 336260-Series Flat Car (yeah, I know...the car
service rules say that's not supposed to happen...except that there is a
nice photo in the Signal Corps archives of CP308063 in Newport News
http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/02/085.jpg - I wonder how it got there?
<G>). I know of the Red Caboose (NYC prototype right?) and the Tichy
flat...any other good prototypical models out there? Is there going to be
one in the Marklin U.P. series that would be appropriate for '44?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
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Lost Files

Richard Hendrickson
 

I recently had a computer problem which resulted in many stored files being
lost from my e-mail in box. If I owe any of you a response to a message
received since late last year, please let me know. Thanks, and apologies
for the bandwidth.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: correct or standard spelling

Richard Hendrickson
 

My collection of original source material is limited and I have not found
the answer to my question in what I have so I thought I would ask the
group what I suppose is a mechanical engineering question.

What is the correct spelling or prefered style with the following words/terms:

end sill, side sill, center sill, under frame

or

endsill, sidesill, centersill, underframe

Bill, the 1953 Car Builders' Cyclopedia shows end sill, side sill, center
sill, and underframe.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

No lettering info for the 1940 CGW lot eh?
When did CGW change lettering schemes?
We don't know that they did. The problem is that we don't know that they
didn't, and L-L is understandably reluctant to issue models with p/l based
on speculation.

I suppose it would be a bit out of
the question for a 1940 built car to sport a new scheme in 1944...(thinking
of renumbering and backdating the P2K car).
Not impossible but highly unlikely; during WW II cars were in such demand
(esp. flat cars) that they didn't get to the paint shop unless it was
absolutely necessary.


Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Bruce,
As per my earlier note, from the decal box an 8 that matched. That old
sheet also had both new and built dates of '40. A little dullcoat and some
weathering and it's fixed. The sheet was part of an old Champ decal. As
Richard said no photo evidence so nobody can say it's wrong.
If evidence turns up then LL can run the car again<VBG>.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: correct or standard spelling

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Bill Welch asked for the "correct spelling or prefered style with the
following words/terms: end sill, side sill, center sill, under frame."
Depends on what you accept as authority, Bill, but the 1984 Car Builders
Cyc gives "end sill," "side sill," "center sill," and "underframe."
Webster's Third agrees, if by omission in the case of the first three as
single words.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@...


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Richard said:
Ask and ye shall receive, Bruce. CGW built 7-44, Soo built 7-41, Monon
built 2-52, ITC built 12-45, reweighed 4-65 (late '50s-'60s lettering),
Clinchfield built 7-46, reweighed 8-54, C&O reweighed 5-59 (late '50s-'60s
lettering).
and Clark added:
Gene Green's Morning Sun book on CGW freight and pass cars has the following
info: The only 53'6" cars are in the 3800-3899 series (100), built in 40,
LT WT
46800, capy 100,000, Buckeye trucks, Equipco drop shaft brake.


Clark, Richard

Thanks for the notes! Since I'm modeling June 1944 that second CGW lot
would be one month too new <G>. No lettering info for the 1940 CGW lot eh?
When did CGW change lettering schemes? I suppose it would be a bit out of
the question for a 1940 built car to sport a new scheme in 1944...(thinking
of renumbering and backdating the P2K car).

Well, I can always run the Soo cars! (I need lots of flats and gons for
military loads)

Happy Rails
Bruce


Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Taber's GUIDE TO RAILROAD HISTORICAL RESOURCES

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Roger,

A copyright infringement has to be a BIG case for the Feds to care, and even then you can only collect
only proven monetary damages.

The first railroad book I wrote was fully registered with the government. A local newspaper editor ripped
off big chunks to promote somebody else's book in a feature review (the editor laughed at me and dared me
to sue him, when all I asked for was a fair review of my own book). The copyright lawyer I consulted said
legally I had a good case, but any judge would be really pissed at me for wasting his time with such a
petty matter, and I couldn't prove any actual monetary damages. There is no "small claims" procedure for
copyright violations, and cases have to be heard by a federal court. I was completely out of luck.

Copyright law is nice to have as a deterrence, but for the little guy it has no teeth. With my two
subsequent books I didn't bother to waste money on the formal applicaiton.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Roger Miener wrote:

... Especially so if they have gone to the trouble
to have their copyright registered with the Feds -- That's when it
will *really* hurt.


correct or standard spelling

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

My collection of original source material is limited and I have not found the answer to my question in what I have so I thought I would ask the group what I suppose is a mechanical engineering question.

What is the correct spelling or prefered style with the following words/terms:

end sill, side sill, center sill, under frame

or

endsill, sidesill, centersill, underframe

184861 - 184880 of 195500