Date   

Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

CP, CN and BCR<
Ah, now I see. These are probably cars imported by LL Canada. A couple
of years ago there was some controversy about the LL Canada cars didn't fit
the wording on the LL box about being correct, false advertising and all
that. So LL Canada fixed this with the sticker I guess.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

I said:
shelf full of P2K flat cars with the little "this scheme may not be
prototypical" labels on them<
Jon replies:
This is interesting I never have seen this. I thought LL P2K didn't do
such a thing! And if they did then why didn't they make the '40 CGW and
paste a sticker on it <VBG>.
Yeah, as I recall, the cars were decorated for CP, CN and BCR. I was
really surprised to see the stickers, but there they were, on the end of
the box!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Naperville/Sunshine Models - please read

ted_culotta <ted_culotta@...>
 

I just finished buying a ticket on United's web site for Naperville/Sunshine
Models. I suggest that if you're going, you take a look. My total for a round trip
ticket was $188 from San Francisco. I have been to Chicago at least thirty
times in the past few years and that was by far the lowest. If you're headed to
Naperville, this may be a good time to buy. If you're not, this may be a reason
to go.

Regards,
Ted


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

shelf full of P2K flat cars with the little "this scheme may not be
prototypical" labels on them<

This is interesting I never have seen this. I thought LL P2K didn't do
such a thing! And if they did then why didn't they make the '40 CGW and
paste a sticker on it <VBG>.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Taber's GUIDE TO RAILROAD HISTORICAL RESOURCES

Ned Carey <westernmd@...>
 

From: "Roger Miener"
Yes, back then - the pre-1978 days - if back in those days you did not
dot your 'i's' and cross your 't's' you were dead meat. Back then, a
failure to include a notice of copyright was tantamount to being a
dedication of one's work to the public domain.
So Roger, if something was published without the copyright notice before '78
it went into the public domain. Did the changes that were made in '78 give
the rights for those items back to the owner, or did those things remain in
the public domain.

Ned


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

No lettering info for the 1940 CGW lot eh?
When did CGW change lettering schemes?
Richard replied:
We don't know that they did. The problem is that we don't know that they
didn't, and L-L is understandably reluctant to issue models with p/l based
on speculation.
And I can understand why! If its not available, I'll strip a car and
repaint it, but if its wrong, I'll likely as not, not buy it (at least not
right away, and not for full price...I might buy it on sale as stripping
fodder). My closest hobby shop (50 miles) has a shelf full of P2K flat
cars with the little "this scheme may not be prototypical" labels on
them...course, he's shutting down in a few weeks as he is moving "up nawth"
(to North Carolina) so I'm waiting for the Going out of Business sale to
snap them up <G>.

What might be some good roadnames for 53'6" AAR 50 ton flats transporting
goods (especially military cargo) on the PRR in 1944? (I have one each of
the NKP and CNW from the 1st release). The NKP and CNW flats are
transporting M3 halftracks and Shermans respectively from the Detroit
Arsenal to New Jersey for shipment to the European theater. Of course, as
Richard pointed out in part of his note that I snipped, flat cars were
snapped up...I've got a picture in a book of a Southern flat car being
loaded with Shermans in the Detroit Arsenal.

Of course, in I do have some other classes of flats, like PRR F30A and FM
cars, and a Norwest C.P. 336260-Series Flat Car (yeah, I know...the car
service rules say that's not supposed to happen...except that there is a
nice photo in the Signal Corps archives of CP308063 in Newport News
http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/02/085.jpg - I wonder how it got there?
<G>). I know of the Red Caboose (NYC prototype right?) and the Tichy
flat...any other good prototypical models out there? Is there going to be
one in the Marklin U.P. series that would be appropriate for '44?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Lost Files

Richard Hendrickson
 

I recently had a computer problem which resulted in many stored files being
lost from my e-mail in box. If I owe any of you a response to a message
received since late last year, please let me know. Thanks, and apologies
for the bandwidth.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: correct or standard spelling

Richard Hendrickson
 

My collection of original source material is limited and I have not found
the answer to my question in what I have so I thought I would ask the
group what I suppose is a mechanical engineering question.

What is the correct spelling or prefered style with the following words/terms:

end sill, side sill, center sill, under frame

or

endsill, sidesill, centersill, underframe

Bill, the 1953 Car Builders' Cyclopedia shows end sill, side sill, center
sill, and underframe.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

No lettering info for the 1940 CGW lot eh?
When did CGW change lettering schemes?
We don't know that they did. The problem is that we don't know that they
didn't, and L-L is understandably reluctant to issue models with p/l based
on speculation.

I suppose it would be a bit out of
the question for a 1940 built car to sport a new scheme in 1944...(thinking
of renumbering and backdating the P2K car).
Not impossible but highly unlikely; during WW II cars were in such demand
(esp. flat cars) that they didn't get to the paint shop unless it was
absolutely necessary.


Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Bruce,
As per my earlier note, from the decal box an 8 that matched. That old
sheet also had both new and built dates of '40. A little dullcoat and some
weathering and it's fixed. The sheet was part of an old Champ decal. As
Richard said no photo evidence so nobody can say it's wrong.
If evidence turns up then LL can run the car again<VBG>.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: correct or standard spelling

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Bill Welch asked for the "correct spelling or prefered style with the
following words/terms: end sill, side sill, center sill, under frame."
Depends on what you accept as authority, Bill, but the 1984 Car Builders
Cyc gives "end sill," "side sill," "center sill," and "underframe."
Webster's Third agrees, if by omission in the case of the first three as
single words.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@...


Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars

Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Richard said:
Ask and ye shall receive, Bruce. CGW built 7-44, Soo built 7-41, Monon
built 2-52, ITC built 12-45, reweighed 4-65 (late '50s-'60s lettering),
Clinchfield built 7-46, reweighed 8-54, C&O reweighed 5-59 (late '50s-'60s
lettering).
and Clark added:
Gene Green's Morning Sun book on CGW freight and pass cars has the following
info: The only 53'6" cars are in the 3800-3899 series (100), built in 40,
LT WT
46800, capy 100,000, Buckeye trucks, Equipco drop shaft brake.


Clark, Richard

Thanks for the notes! Since I'm modeling June 1944 that second CGW lot
would be one month too new <G>. No lettering info for the 1940 CGW lot eh?
When did CGW change lettering schemes? I suppose it would be a bit out of
the question for a 1940 built car to sport a new scheme in 1944...(thinking
of renumbering and backdating the P2K car).

Well, I can always run the Soo cars! (I need lots of flats and gons for
military loads)

Happy Rails
Bruce


Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Taber's GUIDE TO RAILROAD HISTORICAL RESOURCES

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Roger,

A copyright infringement has to be a BIG case for the Feds to care, and even then you can only collect
only proven monetary damages.

The first railroad book I wrote was fully registered with the government. A local newspaper editor ripped
off big chunks to promote somebody else's book in a feature review (the editor laughed at me and dared me
to sue him, when all I asked for was a fair review of my own book). The copyright lawyer I consulted said
legally I had a good case, but any judge would be really pissed at me for wasting his time with such a
petty matter, and I couldn't prove any actual monetary damages. There is no "small claims" procedure for
copyright violations, and cases have to be heard by a federal court. I was completely out of luck.

Copyright law is nice to have as a deterrence, but for the little guy it has no teeth. With my two
subsequent books I didn't bother to waste money on the formal applicaiton.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Roger Miener wrote:

... Especially so if they have gone to the trouble
to have their copyright registered with the Feds -- That's when it
will *really* hurt.


correct or standard spelling

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

My collection of original source material is limited and I have not found the answer to my question in what I have so I thought I would ask the group what I suppose is a mechanical engineering question.

What is the correct spelling or prefered style with the following words/terms:

end sill, side sill, center sill, under frame

or

endsill, sidesill, centersill, underframe


Re: Taber's GUIDE TO RAILROAD HISTORICAL RESOURCES

Roger Miener <Roger.Miener@...>
 

Tony Thompson comments about copyright ...

Yes, Roger, you are quite right. I was attempting to refer to the
pre-1978 days
Yes, back then - the pre-1978 days - if back in those days you did not
dot your 'i's' and cross your 't's' you were dead meat. Back then, a
failure to include a notice of copyright was tantamount to being a
dedication of one's work to the public domain. Not so any more. Now,
it is just the other way around. So, the lesson is, if you are gonna
mess with something created by someone else, you better get in contact
with them and chat about it. Otherwise, you could find yourself to be
in a world of hurt -- Especially so if they have gone to the trouble
to have their copyright registered with the Feds -- That's when it
will *really* hurt.

Roger Miener
at Tacoma WA

thompson@... wrote:
Roger Miener, who unlike me actually can speak with authority on
the law:
Tony, I see what you say and I know what you mean ... but what I
think you might rather have said is that "...it has no bearing on
whether copyright is *enforceable*. " As you said later in the
same post ...
Yes, Roger, you are quite right. I was attempting to refer to the
pre-1978 days, during which if you failed to include that copyright
notice, you would not be granted copyright, which in those days you
had to humbly request, while being sure you followed several
precise rules. The word "grant" is indeed inoperative in the
copyright world today, as Roger clearly explains.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
http://www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on
railroads and on Western history


Re: Taber's GUIDE TO RAILROAD HISTORICAL RESOURCES

thompson@...
 

Roger Miener, who unlike me actually can speak with authority on the law:
Tony, I see what you say and I know what you mean ... but what I think
you might rather have said is that "...it has no bearing on whether
copyright is *enforceable*. " As you said later in the same post ...
Yes, Roger, you are quite right. I was attempting to refer to the
pre-1978 days, during which if you failed to include that copyright notice,
you would not be granted copyright, which in those days you had to humbly
request, while being sure you followed several precise rules.
The word "grant" is indeed inoperative in the copyright world today, as
Roger clearly explains.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Staunton, Ill on the ITC

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

Following information came from an Illinois Terminal RR Form 402-1
ledger showing all inbound loads arriving in Staunton, Illinois on
the ITC between 1944 and 1951. Staunton, which had a population of
4047 in 1951, was about 40 miles north of the St Louis area. The
town was also served by the Wabash and Litchfield and Madison.

Date Car From Contents
11-20-44 SLSF 147392 Kan City, Mo Flour (stop off car)
05-21-45 L&N 73467 Birmingham, Al Pipe
05-31-45 NYC 65397 Pt Clinton, Oh Plaster (stop off)
06-05-45 GN 45951 New Orleans, La Celotex
09-06-45 UTLX 95777 Wood River, Il Road oil
09-06-45 UTLX 57942 " " " " "
05-12-46 P&E 4052 St Louis, Mo Cement
06-26-46 RPX 3378 Roxana, Il Liq. Asphalt
06-26-46 RPX 3331 " " " "
06-26-46 RPX 873 " " " "
07-11-46 GATX 21468 Wood River, Il Road oil
07-11-46 GATX 24010 " " " " "
07-11-46 GATX 18574 " " " " "
08-01-46 RPX 3394 Roxana, Il " "
08-02-46 RPX 10154 " " " "
12-16-46 PRR 63097 Camp Shelby, Ms Buildings ??
01-22-47 MILW 650405 blank Poles
03-17-47 NP 94767 Grafton ND Potatoes (stop off)
04-10-47 NP 62049 blank Steel tank (2 car load)
04-10-47 RI 90351 " " " "
04-23-47 NYC 837698 Lincoln, Il Sand
06-20-47 NYC 603141 Birmingham, Al Pipe
07-07-47 SP 38553 Edcouch, Tex Gfruit juice (stop off)
08-14-47 UTLX 72797 Wood River, Il Road oil
08-14-47 UTLX 73323 " " " " "
08-23-47 RPX 8665 Roxana, Il " "
08-23-47 RPX 8546 " " " "
08-23-47 UTLX 11295 " " " "
08-28-47 C&EI 97555 Lincoln, Il Concrete mix (could be
08-28-47 L&N 182785 " " " " grade of sand)
09-09-47 RPX 10185 Roxana, Il Road oil
09-09-47 UTLX 32836 " " " "
10-01-47 CofG 18117 Brookhaven, Ms Poles
10-01-47 IC 99001 " " "
10-17-47 RPX 3341 Roxana, Il Road oil
01-28-48 SOU 11613 Detroit, Mi Mineral wool
02-05-48 MILW 13672 blank Plaster (stop off)
02-16-48 SP 80068 Panama, Okla Poles (2 car load)
02-16-47 CNW 47577 " " " "
05-25-48 MP 22176 Lincoln, Il Sand
04-12-48 L&N 74347 Birmingham, Al Pipe
06-08-48 NYC 66257 Pt Clinton, Oh Celotex
06-18-48 NYC 862723 E. St Louis, Il Stone
06-18-48 MP 55802 " " " "
06-19-48 ITC 3080 Lincoln, Il Sand
07-12-48 WM 50904 " " "
07-20-48 NYC 66035 Detroit, Mi Ford autos
07-23-48 KCS 27312 Panama, Okla Poles
07-27-48 B&O 253559 " " "
07-27-48 CNW 105722 Pt Clinton, Oh Celotex
07-28-48 CB&Q 189598 Lincoln, Il Sand
07-31-48 UTLX 24280 Roxana, Il Road oil
07-31-48 UTLX 24621 " " " "
08-02-48 PRR 75687 ??? Plaster, lath, etc.
08-03-48 NYC 861406 E. St Louis, Il Stone
08-13-48 IC 68453 Lincoln, Il Sand
08-13-48 UTLX 24077 Roxana, Il Road oil
08-21-48 MP 55910 Lincoln, Il Sand
08-21-48 PRR 192483 E. St Louis, Il Stone
08-23-48 IC 70514 " " " "
08-23-48 IC 74050 Lincoln, Il Sand
08-31-48 UTLX 24280 Roxana, Il Road oil
08-31-48 L&N 73674 Birmingham, Ala Pipe
09-09-48 C&O 10009 Phila, Pa Anti Freeze
09-29-48 UTLX 5905 Roxana, Il Road oil
10-07-48 PM 90536 Pt Clinton, Oh Plaster
10-07-48 UTLX 90895 Wood River, Il Road oil
10-09-48 MILW 15581 Pt Clinton, Oh Plaster
10-26-48 L&N 74304 Birmingham, Ala Pipe
10-27-48 MILW 87080 " " "
12-14-48 SAL 16853 Pt Clinton, Oh Plaster

Part 2 1949 - 1951 later today

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: HO Truck Leaf Springs

Stephen Foster <wabash57@...>
 

Currently avialable from Precision Scale. I just ordered and received a
pack of 12 for $2.25 (may have been more but under $3) less discount.


Keep your rails shiny!

Stephen

"If it ain't steam, it's a powered boxcar"

All Points North Model RR Club (Houston TX)
http://www.allpointsnorthmrrc.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "JGG KahnSr" <jacekahn@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 5:47 PM
Subject: [STMFC] HO Truck Leaf Springs


A while ago there was some discussion of sources for HO leaf springs. I
recently acquired a package of Kemtron X-3C full-elliptical
phosphor-bronze
(the Silver Streak were steel and only half, although they looked all
right
and worked fine), 16 springs (enough for four pair of trucks). I am very
much open to offers, cash or O scale items.

Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks


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Re: BC&G hoppers

moonmuln <mullen.lahr@...>
 

Larry Smith asked:
... the BC&G had two types of
hoppers. The 1000 series is definitly Gla style while the 1700
series
looks like a USRA clone. First does anyone have a 1925 ORER and can
look up how many cars were in the 1700 series and what is the data
on
them...
The April 1925 ORER lists the two classes:

Steel Hopper, P.R.R. type..Gla 1001 to 1600, il 30'5", iw 9'6",
outside length 32'3", width 10' 1 3/8", height to eaves 10'0" overall
ht 10' 9 3/4", capy 1682 cuft, 100000 lb, 600 cars

Hopper 1601 to 1900, il 30'5", iw 9'6", outside length 32'3", width
10' 1 3/8", height to top of platform or running board 10'8" overall
ht 10' 9 3/4", capy 1817 cuft, 110000 lb, 300 cars

Jack Mullen


HO Truck Leaf Springs

JGG KahnSr <jacekahn@...>
 

A while ago there was some discussion of sources for HO leaf springs. I recently acquired a package of Kemtron X-3C full-elliptical phosphor-bronze (the Silver Streak were steel and only half, although they looked all right and worked fine), 16 springs (enough for four pair of trucks). I am very much open to offers, cash or O scale items.

Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

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