Here's what I remember from a conversation I had with an ex- Cajon
swing brakeman.
Deadhead to Victorville and wait.
Carry a club- a stick with a big washer jammed over one end
Get on the WB and ride to Summit, where x number of retainers were
turned up by reaching down from the running board and catching the
retainer handle with that washer on the club.
As the train proceeds downhill, watch and sniff for hot wheels on
retained cars.
Run the tops to turn down retainers on hot-wheel cars, turn up
retainers to replace those- [perhaps/probly in the opposite order].
Do this on beautiful sunny days, or dark nites, or in the rain, or
even a little snow.
How many folks? well let's guess. Thru head and rear brakemen, say two
swing. On a 60 car train- and I didn't check any siding lengths or
special instructions, that would be say 15 cars per man, not all
retained at once. Now then , this man is at least 10 years older than
I, so he probly worked when FTs ruled the pass, and up to the deadline
for AB replacement of K valves: 1953. It is my impression that with
DBs and retainers wheel-cooling stops could be avoided. 10 min at
Cajon? 10 at Devore? ETT work required here.
Upon arrival at San Bernardino, go back to Victorville for another ,
maybe on a good day two more trips and make a bunch of money [ at what
today, when money is "worth" so little, seems appallingly low per hour
rates].
All subject to correction[s] by somebody who really did it.
Now in November 61 I did hop a freight [at a non-Cajon place] at nite
and ran the tops to get off the boxcars before the next tunnel- God
protects the senseless, sometimes.

olderail wrote:

The retainers for the AB brakes system had four positions:

Handle down: meant retainer was set for normal operation

Handle raised aprox 100 degrees: "HP"(high pressure),when
an automatic brake application released 20 lbs
brake cylinder pressure retained.

Handle 90 degrees: "LP" (low pressure) 10 lbs brake cyl
pressure retained after brake release.

Handle 45 degrees: "SD" (slow direct release), retained 20
lbs brk cyl pressure which released over a 86
second (IIRC) period.

When retainers required HP was the setting for loaded cars,
LP used for empties. Retainers allowed a trains brake pipe
to be restored to the feed valve setting while holding any
harmful speed increase in check. Depending on the length and
severity of the grade one or more wheel cooling stops might have to
be made before reaching the bottom.

To apply and release retainers required the brakemen walk back
and move the retainer handle on each car at the top and bottom of
grades. I believe some of the mountain railroads had a pole made
up to alliviate having to climb up and down most every car.

What about the "SD" position? Some roads prohibited using that
position. To give an example of where it was used lets go
to the CBQ Deadwood line. Going north toward Lead/Deadwood there
were several 3% descending grades, the first one was one mile
long a few miles south of Custer, the crew used this as a test
spot. If the brake pipe leakage was minimal, and a normal brake
application had the desired effect and (diesel days) you had
working dynamic brake (one SD9 could control seven 220,000lb loads
at 15 mph) the crew would then set their "SD" retainers while
stopped at Custer. Basically the formula they used was something
like this total loads minus 7 X #of SD9 + 1 car. So if you had
four units with 42 loads they'd set 15 SD retainers on the head
end. If they had an engineer the train crew didn't trust they
used "HP" with the loads.

Dick Haave

I remember the Overland ad, in which the decorated model had a size mismatch between the 3 and the 4 in "N-34"!

To Whom It May Concern:

Mount Vernon Shops is happy to announce the introduction of a
new HO Decal Set this week to its line.

HO Scale B&O N34 2-bay wagon-top covered hopper decals.

Two different sets have been done Which cover the early as-built schemes
(pre-1953), and the later billboard schemes (post-1953). These are great for those that have an unpainted Overland car to do, or would like to
use these as an alternative to the decals provided in the F&C kit.


For more information, follow this link: http://www.mountvernonshops.com/N34.html

If anyone has any questions regarding the above product or
any others listed on my website please contact me at the following email: jfrantz@mountvernonshops.com

Thank You and Best Regards,
John Frantz

Owner,
Mount Vernon Shops
York, PA

York, PA
Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Maryland & Pennsylvania and Western Maryland Railroads.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My lunchtime reading today included Andy Sperandeo's article about
his railroad in the 2012 edition of "Model Railroad Planning." In his
very well written narrative about the decisions he has made for his
Cajon Pass layout, he refers to instances where serious grades were
involved that trains would stop to set the retainers. Although I
understand what Andy says that this action "kept the air pressure in
the cylinders when the brakes were released," I find myself wanting
to know more about this practice. For example, about how long would
it take a crew to do this as I assume each car required this. How was
the retainer valve set? How many people were involved? How was the
train's breaking effected when the retainers were set? The Andy notes
another situation where the retainers were turned up. What did this
mean--were the retainers off?

Thanks!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Red Caboose still lists undec kits. Most important. Are there any decals available for B&O cars that those doors were used on?Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "jim_mischke" <jmischke@> wrote:

The old Red Caboose X29/ARA boxcar kits had a choice of doors on the sprues, Youngstown and ARA doors. Some call the latter Creco door, similar but this may not be correct. Anyway, both doors choices are entirely appropriate for B&O M-26 boxcars.

In 1942, B&O issued drawings for replacement Superior doors for their M-26 boxcars. These were very common as well, in both five and six panel variations.

Good article from Jack and other well-informed responses. I'll add that employee timetable special instructions often specified where crews stopped trains to turn up retainers, how many retainers to turn up given tonnage handled, where running brake tests were required, where stops were required to cool wheels, etc.

Air braking is a sublime art. The difference in engineers: any engineer can always make 'em go like hell; good engineers can always make 'em stop like heaven.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bill Welch <fgexbill@> wrote:

My lunchtime reading today included Andy Sperandeo's article about
his railroad in the 2012 edition of "Model Railroad Planning." In his
very well written narrative about the decisions he has made for his
Cajon Pass layout, he refers to instances where serious grades were
involved that trains would stop to set the retainers. Although I
understand what Andy says that this action "kept the air pressure in
the cylinders when the brakes were released," I find myself wanting
to know more about this practice. For example, about how long would
it take a crew to do this as I assume each car required this. How was
the retainer valve set? How many people were involved? How was the
train's breaking effected when the retainers were set? The Andy notes
another situation where the retainers were turned up. What did this
mean--were the retainers off?

Thanks!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My lunchtime reading today included Andy Sperandeo's article about
his railroad in the 2012 edition of "Model Railroad Planning." In his
very well written narrative about the decisions he has made for his
Cajon Pass layout, he refers to instances where serious grades were
involved that trains would stop to set the retainers. Although I
understand what Andy says that this action "kept the air pressure in
the cylinders when the brakes were released," I find myself wanting
to know more about this practice. For example, about how long would
it take a crew to do this as I assume each car required this. How was
the retainer valve set? How many people were involved? How was the
train's breaking effected when the retainers were set? The Andy notes
another situation where the retainers were turned up. What did this
mean--were the retainers off?

Thanks!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<My lunchtime reading today included Andy Sperandeo's article about
<his railroad in the 2012 edition of "Model Railroad Planning." In his
<very well written narrative about the decisions he has made for his
<Cajon Pass layout, he refers to instances where serious grades were
<involved that trains would stop to set the retainers. Although I
<understand what Andy says that this action "kept the air pressure in
<the cylinders when the brakes were released," I find myself wanting
<to know more about this practice. For example, about how long would
<it take a crew to do this as I assume each car required this. How was
<the retainer valve set? How many people were involved? How was the
<train's breaking effected when the retainers were set? The Andy notes
<another situation where the retainers were turned up. What did this
<mean--were the retainers off?

Bill...check out:

http://www.railway-technical.com/brake2.shtml

and scroll down to retainers. I'll let others comment on the details you ask
about.

A YV brakeman who worked on the log trains told me that the crew set
retainers on the loaded log cars before they departed Incline for the lumber
mill. I'm sure that they didn't set them on all of the cars, just some of
them. (I wonder if it was more effective to set every other car, only some
on the end of the train, etc.)

When I was building a Proto48 model of one of the log cars, I noticed that
the retainer was mounted to the end sill of the cars (B end) in the photos
of the cars at the factory. However, in service photos showed that it was no
longer there and apparently moved...my guess was that the end sill position
proved too prone to damage. However, when I asked my brakeman friend about
it, he couldn't remember where the valve was located! Okay, it was 60 years
earlier but I had to give up and mount it to one of the stringers under the
end of the car...seemed logical.

Jack Burgess

Bill, I don't know the answer to your question and in fact I am trying to
learn the same thing because it was a standard procedure for all trains at
the top of Saluda grade to have the retainers set, in fact some were set in
the Ashville yard prior to the train departing. When the train was safely
down the mountain the retainers were set back to their normal position. I
am preparing a clinic on the Southerns operations up and down Saluda and
would like to know more about this subject for the presentation.
I have read several accident reports in which the retainers were not all
set on the train before decent and in other cases where cars were added
after Ashville and those retainers not being set. The train itself was
supposed to sit short of the down grade and an air test performed that was
not always done either.
Fenton Wells
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>wrote:

**


My lunchtime reading today included Andy Sperandeo's article about
his railroad in the 2012 edition of "Model Railroad Planning." In his
very well written narrative about the decisions he has made for his
Cajon Pass layout, he refers to instances where serious grades were
involved that trains would stop to set the retainers. Although I
understand what Andy says that this action "kept the air pressure in
the cylinders when the brakes were released," I find myself wanting
to know more about this practice. For example, about how long would
it take a crew to do this as I assume each car required this. How was
the retainer valve set? How many people were involved? How was the
train's breaking effected when the retainers were set? The Andy notes
another situation where the retainers were turned up. What did this
mean--were the retainers off?

Thanks!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...