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Re: 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon
michaelegross <michaelEGross@...>
You are correct, Tim: I saw the O-Scale decals offered on the Protocraft site, but actually have HO-Scale decals and was therefore looking for an HO-Scale model—which, by the way, I have since found.
Thank you for the offer of an extra Red Caboose model but, for the moment, I am covered. Cheers! Michael Michael Gross La Cañada, CA On Mar 1, 2012, at 4:20 PM, timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:
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Re: 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon
william darnaby
I would strongly suggest, with the best possible intentions, that you ditch
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the Champ set and use the accurate Monon decals from Model Railroad Supply. Bill Darnaby
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of michaelegross Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 5:55 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon Dear Tim, Many thanks for the effort to clarify, as I know this gets confusing. What happened is that I saw a box car photo on the O-Scale Protocraft site with a Monon Hoosier Line slogan. I said I had a Champ Decal set with that same slogan and wondered where I could get that particular car. Richard Hendrickson chimed in to say that the Champ decal was made for another car entirely, one with a 10'0" inside height, numbered in the 9000 series. The decal does, in fact, call for a 10 IH car, so I am currently looking for a Red Caboose 1937 AAR 10' IH car with 4/5 ends and w-corner posts. Sorry for the confusion, and I much appreciate your jumping in with your question. Best wishes, Michael Michael Gross La Cañada, CA 91011-3542
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Re: C&WI Haskell & Barker Gondola
tedander2000
For those accurate dimensions and super detailing, keep the IRM Pullman Library in mind. It took us 8 months with the help of Dennis Storzak to get the fragmenting H&B drawings from tubes onto stable backing and organized into flat files. Your orders for one, two or more drawings copies will allow us to continue restoring more items in the vast collection. We may have drawings on the gondolla including the general drawing. Dennis if you are watching, all the freight correspondence files are racked in the new storage facility and we can start looking up freight car lot numbers per requests, transferring the lot files to archival file boxes as we look up the given numbers.
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Ted Anderson, Pullman Library curator <pullmanlibrary@irm.org>
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bob McCarthy <thesupplycar@...> wrote:
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Re: Wine traveling on the Overland Route in 1949
Rossiter, Mark W <Mark.Rossiter@...>
"And in this corner, wearing the purple trunks and giving his take on
how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin . . ." At the end of the day, this all boils down to building more accurate models of freight cars, right? We are talking about model freight cars, not world hunger or global warming. - - Mark
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Re: REQUEST FOR INFO.
Guy Wilber
Ed wrote:
Can anyone tell me: 1)when were placard boards moved to the low position on box car doors and ends; and 2)when were power handbrakes made mandotory on all cars used in interchange service, or if they were not made mandorory, did some other rule make it impossible to use anything else and be in compliance.Geared hand brakes were required on new and rebuilt cars (in interchange) on, and after, January 1, 1937. There is no provision within the AAR's Interchange Rules making geared hand brakes mandatory on all cars within the timeframe of this list. Guy Wilber Sparks, Nevada
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Re: 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon
Or did you mean you saw an O-scale model but you have HO scale decals?? :-)
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I also have extra Red Caboose HO scale models. I actually have one decorated in the Monon gray paint scheme but I've already started building that one. Tim O'Connor
----- Original Message -----
From: "michaelegross" <michaelEGross@aol.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 6:54:33 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon Dear Tim, Many thanks for the effort to clarify, as I know this gets confusing. What happened is that I saw a box car photo on the O-Scale Protocraft site with a Monon Hoosier Line slogan. I said I had a Champ Decal set with that same slogan and wondered where I could get that particular car. Richard Hendrickson chimed in to say that the Champ decal was made for another car entirely, one with a 10'0" inside height, numbered in the 9000 series. The decal does, in fact, call for a 10 IH car, so I am currently looking for a Red Caboose 1937 AAR 10' IH car with 4/5 ends and w-corner posts. Sorry for the confusion, and I much appreciate your jumping in with your question. Best wishes, Michael Michael Gross La Ca�ada, CA 91011-3542 On Mar 1, 2012, at 3:38 PM, timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:
------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon
Andy Carlson
The title says 10'-6", the Red Caboose kits are 1937 AAR at 10'-0" IH.
I know that this is not Friday, but I have Red Caboose W-corner AAR 40' undec boxcar kits in stock. Please make any responses off-list. <midcentury@sbcglobal.net> -Andy Carlson Ojai CA ________________________________ From: michaelegross <michaelEGross@aol.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, March 1, 2012 3:21:27 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon Yes, thank you, Ed. I am looking for the W-Corners. Put out an e-mail to Red Caboose several days ago. They still sell undec kits from their website but, as I have had no reply as yet, I may go searching hobby shops. Thanks again for the information. The help is always appreciated. Cheers! Michael Michael Gross La Cañada, CA On Mar 1, 2012, at 7:55 AM, tyesac@aol.com wrote: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon
michaelegross <michaelEGross@...>
Dear Tim,
Many thanks for the effort to clarify, as I know this gets confusing. What happened is that I saw a box car photo on the O-Scale Protocraft site with a Monon Hoosier Line slogan. I said I had a Champ Decal set with that same slogan and wondered where I could get that particular car. Richard Hendrickson chimed in to say that the Champ decal was made for another car entirely, one with a 10'0" inside height, numbered in the 9000 series. The decal does, in fact, call for a 10 IH car, so I am currently looking for a Red Caboose 1937 AAR 10' IH car with 4/5 ends and w-corner posts. Sorry for the confusion, and I much appreciate your jumping in with your question. Best wishes, Michael Michael Gross La Cañada, CA 91011-3542 On Mar 1, 2012, at 3:38 PM, timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon
Are you guys confusing the Red Caboose 1937 box cars (available with W and S corners) with the postwar
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box cars made by Red Caboose (originally Front Range, redone by RC)?? I'm only asking because the Monon car being discussed was 10'6" IH (noted in the original email) and the 1937 box car is 10'0". In any case only Branchline and C&BT made the 10'6" IH cars with the 1944 4/4 rolling pin ends (in plastic). Tim O'Connor
----- Original Message -----
From: "michaelegross" <michaelEGross@aol.com> Yes, thank you, Ed. I am looking for the W-Corners. Put out an e-mail to Red Caboose several days ago. They still sell undec kits from their website but, as I have had no reply as yet, I may go searching hobby shops. Thanks again for the information. The help is always appreciated. Cheers! Michael
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Re: 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon
michaelegross <michaelEGross@...>
Yes, thank you, Ed. I am looking for the W-Corners. Put out an e-mail to Red Caboose several days ago. They still sell undec kits from their website but, as I have had no reply as yet, I may go searching hobby shops.
Thanks again for the information. The help is always appreciated. Cheers! Michael Michael Gross La Cañada, CA On Mar 1, 2012, at 7:55 AM, tyesac@aol.com wrote:
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Re: Wine traveling on the Overland Route in 1949
Tony Thompson writes:
"The wheel report, as I understand it, was prepared by the conductor while working the train, and it was handed in at the end of his run to document which cars were spotted where, or picked up where. The time book (on some if not all railroads) was not an official document but was the conductor's personal copy of the work shown in the wheel report, including through cars in his train." The Freight Conductor's Train Book [ the actual title of my frt conductor's book ]...form 2639...on the back of the front cover includes under "IMPORTANT" a list of functions that the conductor must perform. Included are: 1. Record of delays 2. Perishable frt..."Show waybill instructions and position of ventilators and make record of cars with heaters etc. 3. Temperature records. 4. Record to be kept when handling live stock 5. Rough handling. If any rough handling or irregularity occurs during trip, give point and state whether any damage to lading or equipment occurred. Records must be kept in detail of damage to lading or equipment. The info in my book indicates that Fraley added real time events. For example, on 3-20-49, Fraley notes in remarks that at 1:30 AM at mile post 676 [ 7 miles east of Rawlins ] his train picked up 19 MT's, at 673 it had a red block, at 662 at 2:30AM it picked up 4 cars, at 3:15AM at mile post 643 it picked up 19 cars, and he notes that a ATSF box car destined for Denver had a hot box and was left at milepost 617. Incidentally his train was pulled by Big Boy 4018...a rather large engine to be switching cars one might think. Mike Brock
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Re: Wine traveling on the Overland Route in 1949
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Armand Premo wrote:
Gentlemen .Often overlooked in the overall scheme of things is the function of the Agent,yard clerk ,yard master and other non operating personnel.How is the wheel report and ultimately conductor's book generated?The wheel report, as I understand it, was prepared by the conductor while working the train, and it was handed in at the end of his run to document which cars were spotted where, or picked up where. The time book (on some if not all railroads) was not an official document but was the conductor's personal copy of the work shown in the wheel report, including through cars in his train. On the SP in the late steam era, car clerks would collect the waybills for the train and put them in train order for the conductor. Some but not all yards would also give a lineup to the conductor, in effect a "starting" wheel report. The waybills for cars being spotted would be dropped off with the local agent in each town (or car clerks in larger yards), and the new waybills for loaded cars being picked up would be collected by the conductor from the agent. All the waybills would be turned in at the end of the run to clerks at the terminal. I talked about this and related issues in two posts on my blog last fall. For anyone interested, here are links: http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/10/operations-role-of-agent.html http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/11/operations-role-of-agent-2.html Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: REQUEST FOR INFO.
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Ed Hawkins wrote:
Regarding new cars, builder's photos of PS-1s show that cars built in November 1953 and later had the placards in the low position while cars built in October 1953 or before had high placards. CB&Q and FW&D box cars built in Nov. and Dec. 1953 show cars having high placards, so it's apparent that not all builders made the change at the same time. Photos indicate that cars built in 1954 or later had low placards.In fact, page C-42 of the AAR Manual, supplied to me by Guy WIlber, was posted on my blog. It provides for the lowered placard boards (and repositioned route card boards) to take their new position at the beginning of 1954. Here are two links about that, giving the history: http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/12/route-cards-6.html http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2012/01/route-cards-7.html Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: REQUEST FOR INFO.
Ed Hawkins
On Mar 1, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Ed wrote:
Can anyone tell me: 1)when were placard boards moved to the low position on box car doors and ends; and 2)when were power handbrakes made mandotory on all cars used in interchange service, or if they were not made mandorory, did some other rule make it impossible to use anything else and be in compliance.Ed, Regarding new cars, builder's photos of PS-1s show that cars built in November 1953 and later had the placards in the low position while cars built in October 1953 or before had high placards. CB&Q and FW&D box cars built in Nov. and Dec. 1953 show cars having high placards, so it's apparent that not all builders made the change at the same time. Photos indicate that cars built in 1954 or later had low placards. Photos of in-service box cars taken in the late-1950s often show cars originally built with high placards to still have them high, while others show they had been lowered. Thus, some railroads were quicker to lower them than others. Perhaps Guy Wilbur has a date for an AAR instruction when it became mandatory for placards on new box cars to be in the low position. I believe this subject has been discussed before on the STMFC, so there may be documentation in the archives. Hope this helps. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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Re: Wine traveling on the Overland Route in 1949
Armand Premo
Gentlemen .Often overlooked in the overall scheme of things is the function of the Agent,yard clerk ,yard master and other non operating personnel.How is the wheel report and ultimately conductor's book generated? Armand Premo
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----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wine traveling on the Overland Route in 1949 Tim O'Connor says: "Mike, it may come as a shock to you, but some people actually have conductor's books that are not from the Union Pacific in 1949." Why would I be shocked about that? It is widely known that there are several Fraley books in the hands of members and we even have other UP information that cover 1956. And, there are wheel reports of other rrs as well. However, as the subject shows, this issue is about my Fraley. Mike
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REQUEST FOR INFO.
Ed Mims
Can anyone tell me: 1)when were placard boards moved to the low position on box car doors and ends; and 2)when were power handbrakes made mandotory on all cars used in interchange service, or if they were not made mandorory, did some other rule make it impossible to use anything else and be in compliance.
If possible, please sight a reference. Thanks, Ed Mims Jacksonville, FL
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Re: Caboose trucks GN
brianleppert@att.net
The Bettendorf and Barber-Bettendorf Swing Motion caboose trucks were pinned together, in a way.
Each side frame had a vertical hole centered on the spring seat. Each transom had corresponding pins (or lugs or bosses--whichever is the correct term) cast on the bottom. During assembly, there is enough vertical clearance between the transom and side frame opening for the pin to clear the spring seat before dropping into the hole. After that, gravity works. As for the GN trucks, I have no idea. Brian Leppert Tahoe Model Works Carson City, NV --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote: snip
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Re: Wine traveling on the Overland Route in 1949
Tim O'Connor says:
"Mike, it may come as a shock to you, but some people actually have conductor's books that are not from the Union Pacific in 1949." Why would I be shocked about that? It is widely known that there are several Fraley books in the hands of members and we even have other UP information that cover 1956. And, there are wheel reports of other rrs as well. However, as the subject shows, this issue is about my Fraley. Mike
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Re: 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon
tyesac@...
MIke,
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Make sure you get the RC car with the correct end for your needs. I think these are the old IMWX cars and came with "square corners" and "W corners", which are the more rounded off corners. Tom Casey Thank you, Ed. This gets more and more interesting. Did you see Richard endrickson's reply? It looks as if Red Caboose has got me covered. Thanks and best wishes! Michael Michael Gross a Ca�ada, CA 91011-3542
-----Original Message-----
From: michaelegross <michaelEGross@aol.com> To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 9:28 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1944 AAR 10'-6" IH Box Car for Monon Thank you, Ed. This gets more and more interesting. Did you see Richard endrickson's reply? It looks as if Red Caboose has got me covered. Thanks and best wishes! Michael Michael Gross a Ca�ada, CA 91011-3542 n Feb 27, 2012, at 7:24 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote: On Feb 27, 2012, at 5:22 PM, atsfnut wrote: > I am fairly new to the group and, though primarily a Santa Fe > modeler, I have an old set of Champ decals with the Monon "Hoosier > Line" slogan to the right of the door, and would love to paint and > decal a box car to accept these decals. I note on the O-Scale > Protocraft website that they offer a set of decals for that Monon car, > which they say was a 1944 aar 10'-6 " IH box car from > pullman-standard, lot 5860. I can't quite tell from the Protocraft > photo on the site what the end configuration of that car might be, but > it looks to be a 4/4. > > The description is at: > http://protocraft.com/category.cfm?ItemID=305&Categoryid=20 > > My question: is there a manufactured car out there for that 1944 AAR > car, or might this entail a difficult kitbash? Michael, The cars in question as shown in the Protocraft decal set, CIL 1-500 built ca. June 1947, had 10-panel welded sides, Murphy panel roofs, and as you stated 4/4 Improved Dreadnaught ends. Interestingly, the Pullman-Standard lot number list actually specifies the cars as being PS-1 box cars although they lacked the Pullman proprietary ends and roofs. Coincident with these Monon box cars, the first PS-1 box cars having the Pullman ends and roofs began production in June 1947 with the building of Lehigh Valley 62000-62499. Regards, Ed Hawkins [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: A bit of light on wine
I think this was true about cigarettes as well -- the tax stamps were put on
at the point of manufacture. When I was a kid growing up in NJ we'd hear stories about trucks being stopped on the NJ Turnpike with untaxed cigarettes -- these were sold through Mafia connections in the NYC area for distribution via vending machines. Evidently it was (and probaby still is) a big business. In the 50's of course, cigarettes were still shipped in railroad box cars - possibly a bit more difficult to cheat the taxman that way. Tim O'Connor While my experience is out of our time period, I'm sure very little was different in the 50's. I worked for a wine wholesaler in the 70's and we use to receive at least 2 insulated boxcar loads of packaged wine a week from central California. My company (receiver) was in the south. The taxman was there when the car was loaded and was unconcerned about collecting taxes, it was a done deal. George Courtney
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