Date   

Re: Flatcar Load for You PRR and Wide Gauge Connoissuers (UNCLASSIFIED)

Bruce Smith
 

Elden asks
Did these guys come out of Eddystone? If so, it would not be a surprise they chose F30A's.
Those flats were a much better choice than any of the riveted flats, and you often see photos of them overloaded. I suspect the choice was deliberate, as both flats are F30A's.
Elden,

Yes, the locos pictured were Baldwin built S160s. Other S160 builders were ALCo and Lima.

Remember that flat cars, especially during WWII acted as a national pool, However, there would likely have been a higher number available on the home road (PRR) so that helps. Note too that an advantage of the cast frame F30a was reduced light weight, making them capable of taking greater loads. By comparison, the AAR 70 ton flat had a lt wt just under 60,000 lbs leaving only a bit over 150,000 lbs for the load limit, close to a 10,000 lbs difference with the F30A.

That said, other classes of 70 ton flats were used. I have a photo of class Sha (that's the cyrillic letter in front of the number) 93 on a riveted NYC flat. Guess where Sha 93 was built? If you guessed Schenectady, you got it right!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: High brake wheels in the Transition Era

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 19, 2012, at 11:55 AM, Jim Betz wrote:

It is my impression that box cars and reefers with brake wheels
above the roof line were relatively uncommon in the transition
era. Stock cars, flat cars, and gons ... yes, many of them still
had the older style flat/horizontal brake wheels ... but this post
is about the box cars. And I feel that as the date moves towards
1950 that there is a large drop off ("post war") in the number of
cars that had brake wheels above the roof line....

Do I have this - more or less and more more than less - right?
Well, Jim, that depends on how much more than more (or less than
less) you'll settle for. And it was much more true in the '50s,
especially later in the '50s, than in the immediate postwar period.

Owing to the severe reductions in the orders for new cars during the
depression (i.e., 1932-'39), followed by additional severe reductions
during World War II, vast numbers of box cars built in the 1920s or
earlier remained in revenue service on the North American railroads
at the end of the war, and most of those cars had vertical staff
brake wheels. While it's true that geared hand brakes began to be
iapplied in the late 1920s, it's also true that some very large
railroads (e.g., New York Central, Pennsy, Canadian National)
continued to build new cars with vertical staff brakes into the
1930s. In the extreme case, the Great Northern was still taking
delivery of new box cars with vertical staff brakes in 1937. After
the war, the worst antiques began to be retired or rebuilt, so the
proportion of newer to older cars steadily increased, but even in the
early '50s wood sheathed or single sheathed cars with staff brake
wheels were quite common, as the photographic evidence shows. So the
trend you describe certainly took place, but not nearly as rapidly as
you seem to suggest.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Tahoe Model Works Trucks

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "brianleppert@..." <brianleppert@...> wrote:

Yes, I've given them a thought, and that's why I don't buy kits needing them <g>. But then, that's not many kits.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV
Now is a good time to chime in, "But I'll take six pair!" As if it would do any good.

Keep up the good work, Brian. Those who feel the "need" those trucks maybe ought to put together an order that makes economic sense.

Dennis


ADMIN: Re: hey

Mikebrock
 

Joel Holmes asks:

"Spam?"

Yep. Seems to be a lot of that one going around these days. Mark Mporgan will be in Moderate Jail until he gets the corruption out of his computer.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Tahoe Model Works Trucks

brianleppert@att.net
 

Yes, I've given them a thought, and that's why I don't buy kits needing them <g>. But then, that's not many kits.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <tmolsen@...> wrote:

Brian,

Have you given any thought in producing a Two-Level Dalman with an Andrews sideframe casting?

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: Tahoe Model Works Trucks

tmolsen@...
 

Brian,

Have you given any thought in producing a Two-Level Dalman with an Andrews sideframe casting?

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Re: Flatcar Load for You PRR and Wide Gauge Connoissuers(UNCLASSIFIED)

gary laakso
 

They would be shipped to Vladivostok on Soviet flagged cargo vessels since Imperial Japan and the USSR had a Friendship Treaty in place. Most locomotives shipped to the USSR likely would have been shipped to Iran that was partially occupied by the Red Army.

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden SAW
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 3/19/2012 3:17:09 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Flatcar Load for You PRR and Wide Gauge Connoissuers(UNCLASSIFIED)



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Gary;

Super pick up!

Why were they going to a west coast routing? Was Murmansk too dangerous? What port on the east coast of USSR was open?

Did these guys come out of Eddystone? If so, it would not be a surprise they chose F30A's. Those flats were a much better choice than any of the riveted flats, and you often see photos of them overloaded. I suspect the choice was deliberate, as both flats are F30A's.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vasa0vasa@earthlink.net
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] Flatcar Load for You PRR and Wide Gauge Connoissuers

For all you connoissuers of PRR flatcars and wide gauge equipment, here are pictures from a posting on the Northern Pacific yahoo group showing Nixon pictures from Missoula, MT on October 25, 1943. It appears the routing did not use the Bruceton detour for PRR equipement, though the flatcars may have been supplied as empties from there.

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net <mailto:vasa0vasa%40earthlink.net>

"USSR 24-25 Baldwin Builder # 69932-69933 for export to Russia, passing through Missoula on a revenue freight train."
Date: October 25, 1943
Location: Missoula, MT

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN07753

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN07746

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN07752

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN07749

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN07747



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Flatcar Load for You PRR and Wide Gauge Connoissuers (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Gary;

Super pick up!

Why were they going to a west coast routing? Was Murmansk too dangerous? What port on the east coast of USSR was open?

Did these guys come out of Eddystone? If so, it would not be a surprise they chose F30A's. Those flats were a much better choice than any of the riveted flats, and you often see photos of them overloaded. I suspect the choice was deliberate, as both flats are F30A's.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vasa0vasa@earthlink.net
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] Flatcar Load for You PRR and Wide Gauge Connoissuers



For all you connoissuers of PRR flatcars and wide gauge equipment, here are pictures from a posting on the Northern Pacific yahoo group showing Nixon pictures from Missoula, MT on October 25, 1943. It appears the routing did not use the Bruceton detour for PRR equipement, though the flatcars may have been supplied as empties from there.

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net <mailto:vasa0vasa%40earthlink.net>

"USSR 24-25 Baldwin Builder # 69932-69933 for export to Russia, passing through Missoula on a revenue freight train."
Date: October 25, 1943
Location: Missoula, MT

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN07753

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN07746

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN07752

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN07749

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN07747

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


High brake wheels in the Transition Era

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

It is my impression that box cars and reefers with brake wheels
above the roof line were relatively uncommon in the transition
era. Stock cars, flat cars, and gons ... yes, many of them still
had the older style flat/horizontal brake wheels ... but this post
is about the box cars. And I feel that as the date moves towards
1950 that there is a large drop off ("post war") in the number of
cars that had brake wheels above the roof line.
Many stock cars kept their high brake wheels very late - even
past the cut off date of this list and up until either they were
removed from service or you come up against the "no roof walks"
cut off date. I have always considered the stock cars to be
"the last bastion of high brake wheels".

Do I have this - more or less and more more than less - right?

- Jim

P.S. Related/relevant/pertinent rules changes dates are:

1937 - All new cars after this date require "power brakes".
1948 - Running boards (etc.) and platforms must be "steel grid".
1953 - K brakes banned on all cars in interchange service
except tank cars.
1953 - Low tack boards introduced on freight cars. (What
I consider to be an amazingly late date! Before
this they had to climb up on the car - to put something
on the tack board. Only on the ends of the car?)
1954 - K brakes banned on all cars.
1974 - Roofwalks/running boards removed from all cars.

Some of the changes above do not necessarily mean that you
can't/wouldn't still have brake wheels above the roof - but
each of them make it less likely. And new cars after say 1940
were much less likely to have high brake wheels just due to
the 'acceptance' of the on the end of the car methods.


Re: Tahoe Model Works Trucks

Thomas Makofski <tmak26@...>
 

I'll second that suggestion!


Tom Makofski

photo galleries
http://tmak.zenfolio.com/
newifree-mo
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newifreemo/?yguid=353416413





________________________________
From: bob_karig <karig@sprintmail.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 19, 2012 1:38:04 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tahoe Model Works Trucks


What I'd really like to see is a T-Section Andrews truck, produced from about
1912 through 1917. This sideframe has never been produced, but it was widely
used on a number of railroads through the fifties.

Bob Karig

T-Section?
A Bettendorf T-Section truck from me is highly doubtful. With the kind of
truck mold I have, which produces a one piece complete truck molding, I just
could not do a T-Section justice. Kadee's design, where the side frames are
separate castings and the parting line is the frame's center line, is the way to
go.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Re: Tahoe Model Works Trucks

bob_karig <karig@...>
 

What I'd really like to see is a T-Section Andrews truck, produced from about 1912 through 1917. This sideframe has never been produced, but it was widely used on a number of railroads through the fifties.

Bob Karig

T-Section?
A Bettendorf T-Section truck from me is highly doubtful. With the kind of truck mold I have, which produces a one piece complete truck molding, I just could not do a T-Section justice. Kadee's design, where the side frames are separate castings and the parting line is the frame's center line, is the way to go.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Western Prototype Modelers Meet

dh30973
 

Western Prototype Modelers Meet

San Bernardino Station
1170 West Third St., San Bernardino
Saturday, April 14, 2012
9am to 5pm

A Full Day of Prototype Model Railroading Fun
Featuring:
Great Model Displays
Clinics – Learn and Share
Manufacturer's and Vendors
Railfanning & a Great Museum
Raffle Prizes

Admission $15 - FREE Parking
(only $10 if you bring 3 models or more)

Check Our Web Site for Updates
http://www.railroadprototypemodelers.org
Contact Joe D'Elia for vendor tables
E-mail ppw-aline@att.net Phone (760) 721-3393


Re: Tahoe Model Works Trucks

brianleppert@att.net
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bob_karig" <karig@...> wrote:

T-Section?
A Bettendorf T-Section truck from me is highly doubtful. With the kind of truck mold I have, which produces a one piece complete truck molding, I just could not do a T-Section justice. Kadee's design, where the side frames are separate castings and the parting line is the frame's center line, is the way to go.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Re: NP 70000-70048 - Factoid

David Allen
 

Folks:

NP had an earlier series 70,000-70,048 twin hopper cars. Not in ORERs
in 1892 and 1911, but in ORERs in 1897, 1900 and 1906. These cars were
WOOD 30' 25T hopper cars.

70000-70048 29'6" 7'6" 4'5" 25 39 1.6% Twin Hopper

Number in: 1897 - 39; 1900 - 29; 1905 - 8; 1911 - 0

Most likely a poor design of car.

Dave A.


Posted by: "Richard Hendrickson" rhendrickson@opendoor.com
Date: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:49 pm ((PDT))

Charles Hostetler wrote:
<<<snip>>>

Charles, you'll note that this car was built by Pressed Steel in
1922, so it wasn't an original USRA car, though it closely followed
the USRA design. Like most of the USRA clones built in the 1920s,
it came from the factory with a vertical staff brake wheel rather
than a ratchet and lever type. So, yes, you should replace the hand
brake on the model. Richard Hendrickson


Sunshine Kit 102.5 CV 43000 Series Bolster problem

erict1361 <erict1361@...>
 

All,

I just started building SS Models Kit 102.5 the CV 43000 Series Rebuild. After completed the four sides and roof, I test fit the Frame to the body. I noticed something that you should be aware of before building this kit. There are four Bolster plates, two on each car side casting at the bottom. They should line up with the Fish Belly underframe Bolsters, but they don't. I would say that they are 1/16 of an inch too far toward the car ends. At first, I thought that Sunshine used the same Fish Belly under frame as 102.1, the Cotton Belt 45000-38500 kit. But when comparing the two Under Frames, they are different in design. I checked the Prototype photos, regarding the placement of the Bolster Plates in relation to the side Truss's at the bottom of the sheath and it looks like the Plates on the car sides are in the correct location. On the other hand, the Under frame bolsters are not.

Rather than Cutting the Under Frame and re positioning the Bolsters, I trimmed off the Plates and will move then to align with the Bolsters when I add the Weights and ACC the Body to the under frame.

I just wanted to point this out because you may want to move the plates before assembling the body? I know that this will make the model slightly incorrect, but I did not feel like cutting and re sizing the spacing between the Bolsters for such a slight difference.

I am not sure if Sunshine is aware of this problem , but I wanted to share this with you in case you plan on building this kit?

Eric T.


Re: DRGW 70 ton Gondolas

Dave Nelson
 

I don't know but I'd take a guess that it was all coal.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Allen Rueter
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 6:43 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DRGW 70 ton Gondolas

Dave,
   thanks to your database,
 in Oct 1947 the following passed through Bieber CA
229 DRGW 40000-42500 GS
142 UCR 20000-21999 GS
133 DRGW 70000-70699 GS
115 DRGW 71000-71999 GS
98  DRGW 45000-45499 GS


Was this mostly Coal?


--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


________________________________
From: Dave Nelson <Lake_Muskoka@att.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DRGW 70 ton Gondolas

They also saw service running across the Western Pacific to Keddie CA. where
they turned north for delivery up in Washington, via a route thru Klamath
Falls.  I think they went to Spokane but my recollection is a bit fuzzy on
that.

As chance would have it I'm in the middle of creating a 3d CAD model of this
car (having the original blueprints from the Pressed Steel Car company is
handy).  If anyone is interested in seeing some screenshots I'd be glad to
pop some into the photo library.

Dave Nelson
8<


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Tahoe Model Works Trucks

bob_karig <karig@...>
 

T-Section?

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "brianleppert@..." <brianleppert@...> wrote:




Tom,

Unless the heat treater company screws up (and that has happened before), I should have a USRA 50-ton Andrews truck available very soon. You're on my mailing list, and all of those will know first.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Worl&#92;ks
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <tmolsen@> wrote:

Andy,

Has Brian begun any new trucks?

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7474
tmolsen@


Re: DRGW 70 ton Gondolas

Chuck Soule
 

Dave Nelson wrote:

They also saw service running across the Western Pacific to Keddie CA. where
they turned north for delivery up in Washington, via a route thru Klamath
Falls. I think they went to Spokane but my recollection is a bit fuzzy on
that.
If they were carrying copper ore or concentrate, there is a very strong possibility they were going to the Asarco smelter in Tacoma. My earliest memories of the flying Rio Grande logo (mid to late 50s?) were on gondolas on the Tacoma waterfront going to and from the smelter.

Chuck Soule
Gig Harbor, Wa


Re: Accurail

atsfnut <michaelEGross@...>
 

Dear Kevin,

I have one of these cars handy so I could get to it easily. The overall height appears to be a scale 6'9" from the bottom of the side to the very top of the top chord. The interior dimension is 41'0" in length, by 9'0" in width. I used my Optivisor, so these measurements are better than with the naked eye.

Cheers!

Michael Gross
La Cañada, CA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Kevin <csxt5555@...> wrote:

Does anyone on the list have one of the accurail aar 40 gons that can tell me the height of the sides and the dimension of the floor?

Thanks
Kevin Sprayberry

Sent from my iPhone


Re: Flatcar Load for You PRR and Wide Gauge Connoissuers

Steve Stull
 

Dave;

Glad to help when I can.

Probably routed with a minimum of tunnels ;)

--- On Sun, 3/18/12, Dave Evans <devans1@erols.com> wrote:


Steve,

Great link - Many Thanks

Wonder what the routing was...

Dave Evans

75861 - 75880 of 183562