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Pre-orders, pro or con.
lnnrr <lnnrr@...>
Folks, it appears that the concept of pre-ordering models months
before they are manufactured is becoming standard in some areas of our hobby. I understand that this is a safety feature for the manufacturers, that they can estimate the market and place the production run at a 100% sale. Little risk of over-production. It also says they have given up control of the manufacturing process and so must control the market. I, for one, am giving notice that I will no longer buy into the pre-order cycle. When I buy a product sight unseen, I see myself making a bet that the product will meet my hoped for quality standards. By the time I know, it is too late. Pitch it or ebay it, either way I lose. If the maker has no faith in the marketability of the product and fears it will lay unsold on the shelf, then I have no faith in his product either. I will not make that bet again. Yes, I will miss out on some products that I might otherwise find desirable. But I see that as offset by having wasted no money on disappointments. I alone will change no makers marketing. But as more of us lose faith in this pre-order system, those who have control of their production will stock their shelves and prosper when we buy those products. A critical review will mean something because we will be aware of what we are buying. A review that appears after a model is ordered and delivered is worthless. No longer timely. I hold hope that we as consumers can help the makers who stock shelves have faith in their products and in us as consumers. As for the others, perhaps empty shelves are a portend of their future wealth. Are there others who share feeling I have expressed here? If so, please do not risk jail by mentioning or hinting at any one manufacturer. The cookies there, I hear, are left over from a wrecked boxcar still laying on a river bank somewhere. Damp and worse..... Chuck Peck
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Re: tank car placards for models
Jim I have an image of an "Explosives" card that is lettered for the
Minneapolis & St Louis. So it would appear some railroads had their own cards printed. I also have an image of several cards that are lettered for all four railroads owned by Ed Hawley, which dates the cards between 1900 and 1912. I have create a photo album "Placards" where I have uploaded these and some other MSTL cards that may also have been posted on freight cars. The photos are awaiting approval by a moderator. Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
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Re: Milwaukee Solvay Tank Car
Charles Hostetler <cesicjh@...>
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
Charles, that car was a late teens/early '20s radial course 8k gal. Thanks Richard, I recall Jon's really well done clinic at Cocoa Beach two years ago regarding the kit. That was my first visit to Cocoa Beach and I'm afraid I absorbed more about the kit and assembly rather than thinking about potential prototypes - I wouldn't have made the association. I'm glad to have the opportunity to try one of them - it's a really different looking tank car with the radial courses, and I think it would go well with the environs of the coke plant. I'll have to hunt up something for the lettering when I get back. Maybe some really heavy weathering... Regards, Charles Hostetler Goshen, IN
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Re: CBQ GS Gon
Charles Hostetler <cesicjh@...>
Looks a lot like the CB&Q GS gon that Sunshine has/had available. As well as 2000 composite GA's, the Burlington had six classes of composite GS gondolas totalling about 7500 cars, built between Thanks Tom and Rupert, I shall investigate the Sunshine offering when I get back home. Regards, Charles Hostetler Goshen, IN
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Re: bending brass grab irons
Michael Watnoski
Hi Rob,
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I always bend my own grab irons. It seems that the commercial never match exactly. Many of them use too heavy wire or a material that is too hard to clip without chipping my good wire cutters. Also drop grabs have the wrong dimensions or wide radius bends. I use a pair of needle nose pliers with a piece of tape on the inside of the jaws. Just set the wire against the tape and roll the jaws on a hard surface for a sharp bend. bend with fingers for a slightly larger radius. You have found the main problem with Detail Associates wire. It develops a temper in the wire making process. Bending it adds work hardening which makes it brittle. It can be annealed by heating it slightly with a butane lighter at the bend point. Unfortunately, there is very little control of the amount of softening. You also don't want to soften the whole grab as it won't hold its shape when handling. My suggestion is to skip the DA brass wire and use the Tichy phosphor bronze wire. This has a consistent hardness that will not change if heated. It can be bent multiple times without cracking. It holds a straight line well and bends easily. The springiness is handy for making electrical pick ups. Michael
On 3/20/2012 2:00 AM, Rob Kirkham wrote:
I'm working on a Speedwitch model of an Erie 70000 series boxcar. The
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Re: tank car placards for models
mt19a <LarrynLynnHanlon@...>
Hi Jim,
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Avery makes self adhesive white and transparent labels in various sizes designed to be run through laser or inkjet printers. I use #8660 clear inkjet labels for Christmas letter addressing, and have never had a problem with jams in the printer. I would guess their labels are typically .002 - .004" in thickness. I'll let you change out the placards, etc., though! :) Larry Hanlon. Bend, OR
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
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Re: Tahoe Model Works Trucks
np328
Brian, I was looking at blueprints the other day of two-level Dalman trucks (with you know what railroads marking in the lower right corner to sweeten things). If you need the blueprints to get started.....
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Jim Dick - St. Paul
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "brianleppert@..." <brianleppert@...> wrote:
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Re: guitar strings
MDelvec952
As a musician I've used many retired guitar strings on models, .008" mostly on standard grab irons since they are much tougher than brass of the same thickness. E Strings (smallest on most guitars) come in .008, .009, .010, 011 and .012 to fill most grab iron needs, and thicker on B and G strings for brake pipe and other grabs and pipes. Guitar strings stay straight and generally don't stay sagged with most handling.
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Some warnings: Short lengths do not bend easily, so use pliers. Guitars strings are steel, so they can rust if conditions are right for it. Certain sections of used strings may have matter (sweat, finger grease, oxidation) on them that may not take paint, so clean them before bending and cutting. Bronze strings have steel cores, as do the wrapped or wound strings. The best long-term fastening in drilled holes I've found is with epoxy, and it's best to drill all the way through so the guitar string can protrude and the epoxy can form a rivethead. Some of my models are more than 20 years old and I've never lost a grab iron in epoxy, and I have with ACC. Most importantly, guitar strings make deep holes in your fingertips without warning. Those on blood thinners or prone to infection should use something else. ....Mike Del Vecchio
-----Original Message-----
From: RUTLANDRS <RUTLANDRS@aol.com> To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Mar 20, 2012 2:00 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] guitar strings Alan, As is, the guitar string make nice lagged piping. Chuck Hladik In a message dated 3/20/2012 12:38:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, albyrno@yahoo.com writes: Another source for music wire is guitar strings,they are sold by diameter,if you know someone who plays guitar ask them for the old strings next time they change them or go to a music store and tell them what size wire your looking for and get it there.Strings straighten out when you remove coiled spring from envelope. Alan ________________________________ From: randy arnold <_61mkii@gmail.com_ (mailto:61mkii@gmail.com) > To: _STMFC@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:22 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] bending brass grab irons Rob You might try .008" music wire from Small Part Inc, it holds paint better than brass and should not break. Randy On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 2:50 AM, Anthony Thompson < _thompson@signaturepress.com_ (mailto:thompson@signaturepress.com) > wrote: **(mailto:thompson@signaturepress.com) -- Best Regards Randy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: bending brass grab irons
Jim Barnes
Another alternative to brass wire would be phospher bronze. This wire bends very well and makes great grab irons. You can find some at: http://www.tichytraingroup.com as well as other sources. Jim Barnes
________________________________ From: Alan Kilby <albyrno@yahoo.com> To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] bending brass grab irons Another source for music wire is guitar strings,they are sold by diameter,if you know someone who plays guitar ask them for the old strings next time they change them or go to a music store and tell them what size wire your looking for and get it there.Strings straighten out when you remove coiled spring from envelope. Alan ________________________________ From: randy arnold <61mkii@gmail.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:22 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] bending brass grab irons Rob You might try .008" music wire from Small Part Inc, it holds paint better than brass and should not break. Randy On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 2:50 AM, Anthony Thompson < thompson@signaturepress.com> wrote: **-- Best Regards Randy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: tank car placards for models
Tony,
===> THANKS !!! <=== As you know I model "the transition era" for about 95% or more of what I do. The timing of your post and blog entries are 'spot on' for my personal needs because I am in the process of adding "depth" to my roster of tank car models. Both in terms of the number of cars but also in terms of "adding details" (including placards). So even in the transition era tank cars that required placarding were, more or less and mostly more, in captive service ... in that they tended to be hauled either loaded (or empty) over and over for the same 'family' of products ===> correct? So if you have some industries on your layout that are actually using tank cars - you would want to have cars that have both the loaded and unloaded placards ... and you would want to 'cycle' the cars back and forth during your op sessions. Sheesh - one more detail to add to the set up (aka "reset") for the layout! *G* The placard you picked up at WinteRail was "produced by the SLSF". Was that 'the practice' for placards in the steam era? I'm asking "were the placards in the steam era usually printed by/for the RRs and therefore would normally have a logo on them?". I would guess that other than cars that are in "company service" (such as diesel fuel for the RR itself) would not necessarily have placards on them that are the same as the car. They might or might not depending upon where the car had travelled recently. Has anyone ever seen any kind of "post it note material" for consumer use that can be run thru a printer? I would have to have some kind of peel off covering for the sticky part. But would be ideal for model use since you could even change out the placards on your cars between/during ops ... oh damn, I think I just opened up Pandora's box! But it would be nice to have placards and other such items (waybills, etc.) that could be 'attached' to the model but also be able to change them out! - Jim
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Re: Tichy was Milwaukee Solvay Tank Car
Ashley,
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Yes, this has been discussed here many times. The tank can be used with a type 27 frame (IM) to build the WWII USGA tanks. The frame can be used to model a series of NATX tanks (for which Speedwitch did a kit, iirc) Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield." __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
On Mar 20, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Ashley Pollard wrote:
Question if I may? Can the Tichy car be used as the basis for conversion of other tank cars. For instance the chassis can be used on something else to make it better, or the tank can be put on another chassis to represent another type of tank care etc? -- Ashley Pollard
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Re: guitar strings
Charles Hladik
Alan,
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As is, the guitar string make nice lagged piping. Chuck Hladik
In a message dated 3/20/2012 12:38:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
albyrno@yahoo.com writes: Another source for music wire is guitar strings,they are sold by diameter,if you know someone who plays guitar ask them for the old strings next time they change them or go to a music store and tell them what size wire your looking for and get it there.Strings straighten out when you remove coiled spring from envelope. Alan ________________________________ From: randy arnold <_61mkii@gmail.com_ (mailto:61mkii@gmail.com) > To: _STMFC@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:22 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] bending brass grab irons Rob You might try .008" music wire from Small Part Inc, it holds paint better than brass and should not break. Randy On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 2:50 AM, Anthony Thompson < _thompson@signaturepress.com_ (mailto:thompson@signaturepress.com) > wrote: **(mailto:thompson@signaturepress.com) -- Best Regards Randy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Tichy was Milwaukee Solvay Tank Car
Ashley Pollard <ashley@...>
On 20/03/2012 03:39, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
It isn't the case that the Tichy (ex-Gould) model has no knownQuestion if I may? Can the Tichy car be used as the basis for conversion of other tank cars. For instance the chassis can be used on something else to make it better, or the tank can be put on another chassis to represent another type of tank care etc? -- Ashley Pollard Ashley@apnix.demon.co.uk --------------------------------------- http://no-two-alike.blogspot.com/
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Re: tank car placards for models
jerryglow2
I will try to throw in a couple with any order placed if you ask.
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Jerry Glow http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals/
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Ness" <prness@...> wrote:
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Re: bending brass grab irons
albyrno
Another source for music wire is guitar strings,they are sold by diameter,if you know someone who plays guitar ask them for the old strings next time they change them or go to a music store and tell them what size wire your looking for and get it there.Strings straighten out when you remove coiled spring from envelope.
Alan ________________________________ From: randy arnold <61mkii@gmail.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:22 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] bending brass grab irons Rob You might try .008" music wire from Small Part Inc, it holds paint better than brass and should not break. Randy On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 2:50 AM, Anthony Thompson < thompson@signaturepress.com> wrote: ** -- Best Regards Randy ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: bending brass grab irons
Andy Carlson
Details associates packaged a lot of their brass wire about 20 years ago which
were from a bad batch. Wire from these batches would break when brought to any near a right angle. Since the DA packaging seems unchanged over these years, swap meet purchased DA wire may very well be a relic from these poorly drawn wires of the past. Throw away any of these bad wires, as they are useless for our needs. -Andy Carlson Ojai CA ________________________________ From: soolinehistory <destorzek@mchsi.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 20, 2012 7:48:24 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: bending brass grab irons --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote: Or try .008 brass from a different source. Brass work hardens as it is drawn into wire; what we typically use for model building is rated "half hard". IIRC, the hardness of the finished wire is controlled by annealing it at intermediate points in the drawing process; it would seem DA got a batch of wire that is harder than optimum. As Tony said, you can anneal brass by heating it. Unfortunately, this will return it to its dead soft state, and is not reversible by further heat treatment as steel is. Dennis
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Re: tank car placards for models
atsfnut <michaelEGross@...>
Great stuff, Tony, and I thank you. Very informative and well-photographed.
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I have several of those placards which I will share with the group when I have time to photograph them. In the meantime, I have uploaded one tank car photo to a new album titled Michael's Model Gallery. The photo is of a tank car with a placard reduced in size as you described and printed on an ink-jet printer. The photo is waiting for approval from the moderator, so may not be immediately available. I've enjoyed reading your blog in the past, and I appreciate this new posting. Thanks! Michael Gross La Canada, CA
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
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Re: [bending brass grab irons
On Mar 20, 2012, at 7:36 AM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:
5a. bending brass grab ironsI am a huge fan of the phosphor bronze wire that Tichy sells. Not as prone to fatigue, stiffer than brass yet much easier to cut and work with than piano wire. Craig Zeni "Bother", said Pooh as he chambered another round...
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Re: bending brass grab irons
Steve SANDIFER
I use .010 Detail Associates Stainless wire.
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______________ J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer mailto:steve.sandifer@sbcglobal.net Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918 Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kirkham To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] bending brass grab irons Thanks Tony & Randy, So the better choices seem to be either .01" brass or .008 music wire (I assume that is stainless or something of that sort). Or to muddle along with a high failure rate using the .008 brass. I think I'll give the music wire a try next. Rob -------------------------------------------------- From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 11:50 PM To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [STMFC] bending brass grab irons > Rob Kirkham wrote: >> I'm working on a Speedwitch model of an Erie 70000 series boxcar. >> The ladders have relatively shorter rungs, so I am bending my own >> (about scale 16" length). Using DA .008" brass wire, I find some of >> them break at the bends as a result of metal fatigue. > > No, they're being deformed beyond their limited capacity. One > bend isn't fatigue. > >> While I can bend plenty, so will eventually get enough for the >> model, I'm wondering if heating the brass wire before bending will >> do anything to make it take the bend with less brittleness? > > If it's ordinary brass, yes, softening it will work. Our brass > wire is cold drawn, consuming most of its capacity for further > deformation (which is why it breaks upon your bending it). Softening > fixes that. But it will also give you ladder rungs that are easily > bent out of shape (think floral wire). You might be best off to try > bending a slightly larger radius and just throw away the failures. > > Tony Thompson > 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 > (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; > e-mail: thompson@signaturepress.com
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Re: bending brass grab irons
Dennis Storzek
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
Or try .008 brass from a different source. Brass work hardens as it is drawn into wire; what we typically use for model building is rated "half hard". IIRC, the hardness of the finished wire is controlled by annealing it at intermediate points in the drawing process; it would seem DA got a batch of wire that is harder than optimum. As Tony said, you can anneal brass by heating it. Unfortunately, this will return it to its dead soft state, and is not reversible by further heat treatment as steel is. Dennis
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