Date   

Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Jim Mischke
 

Sometimes the manufacturer gets stuck. I've been on the other side of this.

For a year, I operated a partnership with two friends called Keyser Car Shops to produce custom lettered B&O freight equipment, possibly much later to grow into tooled B&O car designs. We had about 12 major product ideas, and envisioned cranking out two or three a year. We never got past the first project, a Red Caboose B&O M-26b in "Time-Saver" slogan bright red paint.

We took no pre-orders and only announced when the boxcars arrived. For all the other faults in our business plan (small marketing footprint, no paid advertising, web-based only sales, risking market saturation from the same freight car product in other B&O lettering) and unforseen obstacles (high retail price, mainly due to Chinese inflation and dishonesty), the insurmountable problem was fundamental lack of demand. Previous yahoo list clamor for a particular car appearance means about twenty sales, not 400. We sold 200 and remaindered 200 for a net loss. It was not going to get any better than this. When in a hole, stop digging. We disbanded.

As a consumer, I detest the preorders-only business model, where a new product is gone in two weeks before I can even look at one.

On the other hand, a garage full of unsold slow-selling boxcars is a killer. Bills are paid with seed corn, not sales proceeds. Never mind funding the next project. I cannot imagine a larger company making payroll risking this inventory condition.

The main challenge of capitalism is sizing the business. Like kids staffing a neighborhood lemonade stand, they lose their little shirts if it rains (much unsold paid-for lemonade on hand), or leave money on the table (thirsty potential customers walking away unslaked) if they are underprepared when the sun shines.

While we tire-kickers are fed up with sold-out preordered releases, the economic realities for the producers are stark.

--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:

The problem is, it is the dealer who gets stuck. The manufacturer has been paid. The distributor has been paid. Neither will take the product back. The customer who pre-ordered declines to take it. The person with the least available cash is stuck -- the dealer. This might not be so much of an issue with a freight car. But how many $500 locomotives can the dealer he left holding that he will likely need to sell at a loss (no one pays retail and most are not even satisfied with 25% off list any more) and stay in business? Thus the need for a pre-order deposit in selected cases -- when burned once. The non-refundable deposit allows the dealer to sell the amount of the deposit below cost and at least break even. Otherwise, he is out of business.

Rich







-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:17 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.


Rich Orr wrote:

As a small vendor (not a LHS), I buy directly from two
manufacturers . . . I do selectively require deposits on orders. I
have been stuck with large numbers of items from individuals who pre-
ordered and then declined to accept the items. Usually
locomotives. Anything they order now requires a non-refundable
deposit.


But notice the problem here. The locomotive comes in, it's panned

by somebody somewhere (rightly or wrongly), and the prospective buyer,

who of course had no way to know what would be delivered, declines to

accept. I don't think this is unreasonable behavior. If those who are

"selective" (not saying "picky") find themselves having to pre-pay for

reservations, some will simply drop out, as some posters have

observed. That's a loss of customer, because they don't decline EVERY

engine.

That said, I have no sympathy for the reservation holder who, on

arrival says, "sorry, I changed my mind." That's unreasonable, even

though I realize the dealer has no way to distinguish it from the

buyer who finds the product unacceptable.



Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...

Publishers of books on railroad history







------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/



Individual Email | Traditional



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/join

(Yahoo! ID required)



STMFC-digest@...

STMFC-fullfeatured@...



STMFC-unsubscribe@...



http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/









Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Dave Nelson
 

Over in the simulator world it's all completely different. Somebody makes
something and, assuming he wants to be paid for it, puts it up on a web site
that can process payments. So long as it stays there, you can buy it so WRT
availability it doesn't matter if 2 copies are sold or 2000. OTOH,
freeware is almost always forever.

There isn't much of a market for payware rolling stock but a top-notch steam
locomotive can gross $30,000 and an exceptional good route will pull in
$50-80,000 so for the seller (almost always a 1 man operation) it's isn't
chicken feed I'm speaking of and for the buyer the expense is usually ~1% of
what HO will cost at list.

For those of you wondering, I dunno where these simulator models came from
but IF one had to pay form the I expect they cost $1.50 - $2 per locomotive
unit:

http://a.imageshack.us/img43/8600/82334792.png

http://a.imageshack.us/img12/564/39412482.png

http://a.imageshack.us/img269/6793/22764984.png

http://a.imageshack.us/img821/3507/11657083.png

http://a.imageshack.us/img864/885/71591742.png *


So yes Andy, I agree: this issue of pre-ordering "... is just another
aspect that one day shall pass, and be replaced with something else.",
except I think it'll be far different than you thought.

Dave Nelson

* n.b., these are screenshots taken while running a simulator program and
then photoshopt to add motion blur and/or lens sparkle. The locomotives,
AFAIK, are not retouched.

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Andy
Harman

Because manufacturers don't keep inventory, distributors don't keep
inventory, and dealers don't keep inventory, I have to keep it myself.
Pretty much a fact of life. Although, the self-perpetuating belief that the
hobby industry is a cork bobbing on the South China Sea and there's nothing
anybody can do to change it, is just another aspect that one day shall pass,
and be replaced with something else.

Andy


Re: tank car placards for models

prgm_mgr
 

Hi Jim
You could use a label and just not press it all the way home. On plastic it should not be a big problem, especially if you cut it a little larger than the placard holder so you can grab it with tweezers. If you are concerned, you could touch the label to a bit of glass first to take away some of the glue but I don't think that would be necessary.

I have used labels to put names, etc on plastic baseball helmets for my kids and they can be easily removed.

Mark

Has anyone ever seen any kind of "post it note material" for

consumer use that can be run thru a printer? I would have to have
some kind of peel off covering for the sticky part. But would be
ideal for model use since you could even change out the placards
on your cars between/during ops ... oh damn, I think I just opened
up Pandora's box! But it would be nice to have placards and other
such items (waybills, etc.) that could be 'attached' to the model
but also be able to change them out!
- Jim


Re: NEW F&C Reading XMP ONE PIECE BODY 36' Boxcars

erict1361 <erict1361@...>
 

Bob,

No thats good !

Thanks,

Eric

--- In STMFC@..., "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:


--- In STMFC@..., Eric wrote:

Funaro & Camerlengo Just posted this on their Website:

SEE US AT THE PHILADELPHIA DIVISION NMRA MEET at the Desmond Great
Valley Hotel & Conference Center in Malverne, PA

March 23- March 25, 2012

We Will Have the Following New Kits

Reading XMP ONE PIECE BODY 36' Boxcars with Steel and Wood Doors with
Hutchins Roof and Decals $44.99

Anyone know how long these cars ran in Interchange service?
Eric,

The ORER for October 1955 still lists 7 cars on the roster. Do you need
a later date?

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: NEW F&C Reading XMP ONE PIECE BODY 36' Boxcars

erict1361 <erict1361@...>
 

Tom,

12500


Thanks,

Eric

--- In STMFC@..., <tmolsen@...> wrote:

Eric,

What is the number series of these Reading XMP cars?

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Andy Harman
 

At 03:47 PM 3/21/2012 -0400, you wrote:
The problem is, it is the dealer who gets stuck. The manufacturer has been paid. The distributor has been paid. Neither will take the product back. The customer who pre-ordered declines to take it. The person with the least available cash is stuck -- the dealer.
And the consumer, always presumed to be rolling in dough, has no choice but to pre-order and buy all he thinks he'll ever need of a product during the week it's available. If he ends up with too much, maybe somebody will pay a premium if they missed out. If he ends up with not enough, then he's the one who has to pay the premium.

Andy


Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Andy Harman
 

At 11:14 AM 3/21/2012 -0700, you wrote:

One other thing. You should never have to pay in advance if you
cultivate a long term relationship with a well established retailer
who knows you and knows you will pay promptly when the item comes
in.
The only manufacturer I know of who is asking for advance payment (i.e. "investing") had a product line that is largely stratospheric pastry and I wouldn't buy it anyway.

Because manufacturers don't keep inventory, distributors don't keep inventory, and dealers don't keep inventory, I have to keep it myself. Pretty much a fact of life. Although, the self-perpetuating belief that the hobby industry is a cork bobbing on the South China Sea and there's nothing anybody can do to change it, is just another aspect that one day shall pass, and be replaced with something else.

Andy


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /bx12 wedge low.jpg
Uploaded by : losgatos48 <proto48@...>
Description : Southern Car & Foundry has started production for the new boxcar kit. This 1/48 scale model is based upon the ATSF Bx-12 rebuilt boxcar. The model is a single-piece urethane body with separate floor. It comes custom etched parts, plastic details from Chooch & San Juan with decal by Protocraft.

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/bx12%20wedge%20low.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html
Regards,

losgatos48 <proto48@...>


Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

SUVCWORR@...
 

Al, that is actually theft by deception and considering the amount a felony in most jurisdictions. You could have filed a criminal complaint against him and a civil complaint and regained your money. Dealers don't have that option unless they go to the extent of having every person who pre-orders execute an enforceable contract.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:55 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.


Many years ago when I worked for a company and had actual money to spend I
pre-paid for several very expensive locos from a dealer who will remain
nameless. An Erie triplex and L-1 0-8-8-0 camelback. The dealer never ordered
them. After waiting well after others received theirs I asked the dealer where
mine were. He said they hadn’t come in yet. I called the importer who told me
all had been shipped but he just happened to have a spare triplex that had come
back from being repaired. I sent the importer the money and confronted the
dealer. The dealer reached into the bottom of his rotating counter and pulled
out a wad of bills. He peeled off over $1,000 for me. This is how he conducted
business? I never went back. He soon went out of business. But I did get the
L-1 from another source. – Al Westerfield

From: SUVCWORR@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 2:47 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.


The problem is, it is the dealer who gets stuck. The manufacturer has been paid.
The distributor has been paid. Neither will take the product back. The customer
who pre-ordered declines to take it. The person with the least available cash is
stuck -- the dealer. This might not be so much of an issue with a freight car.
But how many $500 locomotives can the dealer he left holding that he will likely
need to sell at a loss (no one pays retail and most are not even satisfied with
25% off list any more) and stay in business? Thus the need for a pre-order
deposit in selected cases -- when burned once. The non-refundable deposit allows
the dealer to sell the amount of the deposit below cost and at least break even.
Otherwise, he is out of business.

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:17 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Rich Orr wrote:

As a small vendor (not a LHS), I buy directly from two
manufacturers . . . I do selectively require deposits on orders. I
have been stuck with large numbers of items from individuals who pre-
ordered and then declined to accept the items. Usually
locomotives. Anything they order now requires a non-refundable
deposit.
But notice the problem here. The locomotive comes in, it's panned

by somebody somewhere (rightly or wrongly), and the prospective buyer,

who of course had no way to know what would be delivered, declines to

accept. I don't think this is unreasonable behavior. If those who are

"selective" (not saying "picky") find themselves having to pre-pay for

reservations, some will simply drop out, as some posters have

observed. That's a loss of customer, because they don't decline EVERY

engine.

That said, I have no sympathy for the reservation holder who, on

arrival says, "sorry, I changed my mind." That's unreasonable, even

though I realize the dealer has no way to distinguish it from the

buyer who finds the product unacceptable.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com

Publishers of books on railroad history

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/

Individual Email | Traditional

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

mailto:STMFC-digest%40yahoogroups.com

mailto:STMFC-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com

mailto:STMFC-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: tank car placards for models

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Townsend wrote:
All of this attention to tank car placards begs some similar attention to placards for other cars. I have examples of placards used on the C&S for "Explosives," and for "Heated Car" (for reefers with heaters), "Uninspected Clean Cattle" and "Exposed Sheep for Slaughter" (for stock cars), and "Time Freight," "Red Ball Freight," and "Penalty" for cars of indeterminate type. Undoubtedly there are others (I lost a long time ago the "Do Not Hump" placard I prized so highly when I was in high school).
You're quite right, Richard, and many such placards, including "Do Not Hump," are in the Microscale set 87-975. Don't forget to remind Microscale that this set needs to be reprinted! It's been OOP for some time! Send them email at: railroad@...

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NEW F&C Reading XMP ONE PIECE BODY 36' Boxcars

Dave Pfeiffer
 

The Reading Color Guide indicates that the last of these cars were made into "covered hoppers" with hatches and hopper bottoms for use by Hershey Foods. The class was changed to XMph. While the conversion date is not mentioned, there are 2 photos from 1960 and 1961 showing well used cars.

Dave Pfeiffer

----- Original Message -----
From: "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 4:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NEW F&C Reading XMP ONE PIECE BODY 36' Boxcars



--- In STMFC@..., Eric wrote:

Funaro & Camerlengo Just posted this on their Website:

SEE US AT THE PHILADELPHIA DIVISION NMRA MEET at the Desmond Great
Valley Hotel & Conference Center in Malverne, PA

March 23- March 25, 2012

We Will Have the Following New Kits

Reading XMP ONE PIECE BODY 36' Boxcars with Steel and Wood Doors with
Hutchins Roof and Decals $44.99

Anyone know how long these cars ran in Interchange service?
Eric,

The ORER for October 1955 still lists 7 cars on the roster. Do you need
a later date?

Regards,

Bob Witt




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Tim O'Connor
 

Intermountain has a full return policy back to THEM -- so if I order a model from my dealer, and it turns out that I don't want it, and my dealer can't sell it, IM will take it back and refund the dealer. As a result IM has very happy customers who aren't afraid to order models for their customers.

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Al and Patricia Westerfield" <westerfield@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:55:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Many years ago when I worked for a company and had actual money to spend I pre-paid for several very expensive locos from a dealer who will remain nameless. An Erie triplex and L-1 0-8-8-0 camelback. The dealer never ordered them. After waiting well after others received theirs I asked the dealer where mine were. He said they hadn’t come in yet. I called the importer who told me all had been shipped but he just happened to have a spare triplex that had come back from being repaired. I sent the importer the money and confronted the dealer. The dealer reached into the bottom of his rotating counter and pulled out a wad of bills. He peeled off over $1,000 for me. This is how he conducted business? I never went back. He soon went out of business. But I did get the L-1 from another source. – Al Westerfield

From: SUVCWORR@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 2:47 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.


The problem is, it is the dealer who gets stuck. The manufacturer has been paid. The distributor has been paid. Neither will take the product back. The customer who pre-ordered declines to take it. The person with the least available cash is stuck -- the dealer. This might not be so much of an issue with a freight car. But how many $500 locomotives can the dealer he left holding that he will likely need to sell at a loss (no one pays retail and most are not even satisfied with 25% off list any more) and stay in business? Thus the need for a pre-order deposit in selected cases -- when burned once. The non-refundable deposit allows the dealer to sell the amount of the deposit below cost and at least break even. Otherwise, he is out of business.

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:17 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Rich Orr wrote:

As a small vendor (not a LHS), I buy directly from two
manufacturers . . . I do selectively require deposits on orders. I
have been stuck with large numbers of items from individuals who pre-
ordered and then declined to accept the items. Usually
locomotives. Anything they order now requires a non-refundable
deposit.
But notice the problem here. The locomotive comes in, it's panned

by somebody somewhere (rightly or wrongly), and the prospective buyer,

who of course had no way to know what would be delivered, declines to

accept. I don't think this is unreasonable behavior. If those who are

"selective" (not saying "picky") find themselves having to pre-pay for

reservations, some will simply drop out, as some posters have

observed. That's a loss of customer, because they don't decline EVERY

engine.

That said, I have no sympathy for the reservation holder who, on

arrival says, "sorry, I changed my mind." That's unreasonable, even

though I realize the dealer has no way to distinguish it from the

buyer who finds the product unacceptable.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com

Publishers of books on railroad history

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/

Individual Email | Traditional

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

mailto:STMFC-digest%40yahoogroups.com

mailto:STMFC-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com

mailto:STMFC-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


B&O M-15f Tatum XLT End, not an Indestructable End

Jim Mischke
 

In the book "Focus on Freight Cars, Volume Two: Double Sheathed Box & Automobile
Cars", by Richard Hendrickson, published by Speedwitch in 2004, page 27 presents
the B&O class M-15F double sheath boxcar #176392 and states
it possesses Chicago-Cleveland Indestructible Ends.  This literary association
between later B&O M-15 subclass double sheath boxcars and Indestructible Ends
dates from the 1995-vintage Westerfield M-15h/j model boxcar resin kit flyers,
based on available research at the time, often repeated in print.

Further research reveals this M-15f boxcar end is a Tatum XLT reinforced end
design, not a vendor-supplied Indestructible End.


Indestructible End
-----------------------------

The Indestructible End is best shown as a cutaway sketch in the 1919 Car
Builders Dictionary, page 453, figue 502.  It consists largely of two vertical
z-braces, with special upper and lower brackets.

Per this CBC drawing, Indestructible Ends (1) lack diagonal supports, (2) lack
full width horizontal tie rods, (3) possess vertical Z-sections facing inward
towards the center sill, (4) the lower bracket is a custom mallable iron casting
that attaches to the interior of the end sill, (5) the upper bracket, called an
end plate, is a pressed steel fabrication, peaked to match the roof contour and
hidden behind a triangular end piece, and (6) have four tie rods extending back
along the car axis to the first support, called a carline.



Tatum XLT Reinforced End
---------------------------------------

The shown M-15F end features (1) two large 4x4 diagonal wood braces, (2) two
(sometimes XLT ends had three) full width tie rods across the car end, (3)
outward facing Z-braces which accept the diagonal braces, (4) two internal tie
rods connecting the upper end assmbly to the interior of the car roof (not
visible in photos), and (5) simple fabricated gussetts and brackets connecting
to the roof and end sill.   All these characteristics are accurately shown on
B&O blueprints for the Tatum XLT reinforced end.

The B&O M-15F boxcars were produced in three batches during 1923-24, by Illinois
Car, Standard Steel Car, and ACF.  ACF-built M-15f 176392 was constructed new
with the Tatum XLT reinforced end in 1924, the M-15f was the only new
construction application.  In subsequent years, B&O applied this XLT boxcar end
in its own shops as an aftermarket assembly to about 10,600 boxcars.  These
included many wood boxcars with steel underframes between class M-8 and M-25,
replacing weak or worn plain wood ends. (Before people raise questions, many
truss rod M-8's were upgraded with steel underframes).  Although both plain wood
ends were seemingly nearly always replaced on such boxcars, this was not an
absolute requirement per memo, an interesting variation to model.  This Tatum
XLT reinforced end has been mainly known for its wide application to various
M-15 wood boxcar subclasses, especially the common M-15h and M-15j.  


John J. Tatum was the B&O car superintendent for a generation, with 66 patents
to his name, including wagontop equipment.   Most of his "XLT" brand innovations
were unpatented, making cost sense only in a fully integrated shop using
salvaged feedstock.   As with other XLT trade name hardware, the moment Mr.
Tatum retired in 1942, so did continued use of his designs.  Dubious former
subordinates, me thinks.


Patents
------------

Patent searches turn up many hundreds of boxcar end designs, with a vast array
of ruffles and ridges.  Tatum did not patent his XLT end, per search and his own
patent listing in a small unpublished autobiography.  The Chicago-Cleveland
Indestructible End does not appear to have been patented, although patent
searches can be flawed and miss relevant patents.


Other boxcar ends
---------------------------

The 1922 Car Builders Cyclopedia shows a Burnett boxcar end, offered by Hutchins
with the rest of their boxcar hardware.  Similar features and relevent
differences.


Conclusion
------------------

Similarity between the Tatum XLT and Indestructible Ends is only the vertical
Z-braces, single sheathing, and an indented general look.   The nuts, bolts, and
designer are quite different.  I cannot speak for other railroad boxcar ends,
just B&O.  Perhaps other railroads' boxcars' ends attributed
as Chicago-Cleveland Indestructible Ends might need some reexamination in light
of source material instead of visual association.  (examples: L&N, Ann Arbor).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Many years ago when I worked for a company and had actual money to spend I pre-paid for several very expensive locos from a dealer who will remain nameless. An Erie triplex and L-1 0-8-8-0 camelback. The dealer never ordered them. After waiting well after others received theirs I asked the dealer where mine were. He said they hadn’t come in yet. I called the importer who told me all had been shipped but he just happened to have a spare triplex that had come back from being repaired. I sent the importer the money and confronted the dealer. The dealer reached into the bottom of his rotating counter and pulled out a wad of bills. He peeled off over $1,000 for me. This is how he conducted business? I never went back. He soon went out of business. But I did get the L-1 from another source. – Al Westerfield

From: SUVCWORR@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 2:47 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.


The problem is, it is the dealer who gets stuck. The manufacturer has been paid. The distributor has been paid. Neither will take the product back. The customer who pre-ordered declines to take it. The person with the least available cash is stuck -- the dealer. This might not be so much of an issue with a freight car. But how many $500 locomotives can the dealer he left holding that he will likely need to sell at a loss (no one pays retail and most are not even satisfied with 25% off list any more) and stay in business? Thus the need for a pre-order deposit in selected cases -- when burned once. The non-refundable deposit allows the dealer to sell the amount of the deposit below cost and at least break even. Otherwise, he is out of business.

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:17 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Rich Orr wrote:

As a small vendor (not a LHS), I buy directly from two
manufacturers . . . I do selectively require deposits on orders. I
have been stuck with large numbers of items from individuals who pre-
ordered and then declined to accept the items. Usually
locomotives. Anything they order now requires a non-refundable
deposit.
But notice the problem here. The locomotive comes in, it's panned

by somebody somewhere (rightly or wrongly), and the prospective buyer,

who of course had no way to know what would be delivered, declines to

accept. I don't think this is unreasonable behavior. If those who are

"selective" (not saying "picky") find themselves having to pre-pay for

reservations, some will simply drop out, as some posters have

observed. That's a loss of customer, because they don't decline EVERY

engine.

That said, I have no sympathy for the reservation holder who, on

arrival says, "sorry, I changed my mind." That's unreasonable, even

though I realize the dealer has no way to distinguish it from the

buyer who finds the product unacceptable.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com

Publishers of books on railroad history

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/

Individual Email | Traditional

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

mailto:STMFC-digest%40yahoogroups.com

mailto:STMFC-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com

mailto:STMFC-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NEW F&C Reading XMP ONE PIECE BODY 36' Boxcars

tmolsen@...
 

Eric,

What is the number series of these Reading XMP cars?

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: tank car placards for models

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 21, 2012, at 11:39 AM, madchemep2@... wrote:

Not that I'm an English major but, I can speak the language. A
question
that I have often wondered about, what is the difference between
"Flammable"
and "Inflammable"? Seems like an oxymoron. What is the preferred use?
Regards, Al Campbell
Al, as it happens, I'm a professor of English Linguistics (retired),
and I could provide you with more and better etymological information
than several others on the list. But I won't, because the real issue
here is what ordinary people understand. And, as it happens, a
pioneer (though amateur) linguist who was also a safety consultant
for an insurance company weighed in on this issue way back in the
1930s. That was Benjamin Lee Whorf, and he pointed out that,
regardless of word origins, ordinary people often interpreted
inflammable to mean "not flammable," so he initiated a campaign to
replace "inflammable" with "flammable" as a warning notice. As we
know, that campaign was ultimately successful. Both terms are widely
used, hence there are dictionary entries for both, but "flammable" is
almost universally employed to identify materials that will burn as,
e.g., on freight car warning placards.

Whorf also cited a somewhat related experience that bears on the use
of half-black "dangerous" placards on empty tank cars. He once
visited a facility that received gasoline in tank car lots. He was
appalled to see workmen who were on break smoking cigarettes while
leaning against a tank car's running board. When he remonstrated
with them about this practice, they assured him that what they were
doing was safe because the tank car was "empty." It was, to be sure,
empty of liquid gasoline. Gasoline fumes were, of course, another -
and much more dangerous - matter.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: tank car placards for models

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis S. wrote:
But Tom is correct that taken out of its Latin context, the meaning becomes muddled with words where the prfix "in" does mean not... The indestructible container proved ineffective at keeping the inflammable liquid in a safe state. :)
Of course. That's why they chose one. I believe either one would have worked (why would you placard a car with a cargo which could NOT be set on fire?), but obviously two can pose problems. But Tom tried to claim that the word "inflammable" is incorrect English, which it certainly is not.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NEW F&C Reading XMP ONE PIECE BODY 36' Boxcars

rwitt_2000
 

--- In STMFC@..., Eric wrote:

Funaro & Camerlengo Just posted this on their Website:

SEE US AT THE PHILADELPHIA DIVISION NMRA MEET at the Desmond Great
Valley Hotel & Conference Center in Malverne, PA

March 23- March 25, 2012

We Will Have the Following New Kits

Reading XMP ONE PIECE BODY 36' Boxcars with Steel and Wood Doors with
Hutchins Roof and Decals $44.99

Anyone know how long these cars ran in Interchange service?
Eric,

The ORER for October 1955 still lists 7 cars on the roster. Do you need
a later date?

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: tank car placards for models

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Tom,

Wrong! (Gosh, I miss the Gong Show) First "inflammable" is absolutely correct English. Check your dictionary. Second, the derivation is from Latin inflammare. The "in" is not the negative equivalent of "un" but rather the preposition "in".

You doctor doesn't say you have an "flamed knee", they say you have an "inflamed knee"... same root <G>

Regards

Bruce
But Tom is correct that taken out of its Latin context, the meaning becomes muddled with words where the prfix "in" does mean not... The indestructible container proved ineffective at keeping the inflammable liquid in a safe state. :)

Dennis


Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Brian Ehni <behni@...>
 

Case in point. My former business partner continued to sell trains from his
house after I opted out. Based on what the Nashville local crowd said they
would buy from him, he ordered and received a case of the Atlas GP-40s both
with and without DCC.

Not a soul actually purchased one, leaving him stuck with a cash outlay of
hundreds of dollars for nothing.


Thanks!
--

Brian P. Ehni

From: <SUVCWORR@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:47:52 -0400 (EDT)
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.






The problem is, it is the dealer who gets stuck. The manufacturer has been
paid. The distributor has been paid. Neither will take the product back.
The customer who pre-ordered declines to take it. The person with the least
available cash is stuck -- the dealer. This might not be so much of an
issue with a freight car. But how many $500 locomotives can the dealer he
left holding that he will likely need to sell at a loss (no one pays retail
and most are not even satisfied with 25% off list any more) and stay in
business? Thus the need for a pre-order deposit in selected cases -- when
burned once. The non-refundable deposit allows the dealer to sell the
amount of the deposit below cost and at least break even. Otherwise, he is
out of business.

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com> >
To: STMFC <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:17 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pre-orders, pro or con.

Rich Orr wrote:

As a small vendor (not a LHS), I buy directly from two
manufacturers . . . I do selectively require deposits on orders. I
have been stuck with large numbers of items from individuals who pre-
ordered and then declined to accept the items. Usually
locomotives. Anything they order now requires a non-refundable
deposit.
But notice the problem here. The locomotive comes in, it's panned

by somebody somewhere (rightly or wrongly), and the prospective buyer,

who of course had no way to know what would be delivered, declines to

accept. I don't think this is unreasonable behavior. If those who are

"selective" (not saying "picky") find themselves having to pre-pay for

reservations, some will simply drop out, as some posters have

observed. That's a loss of customer, because they don't decline EVERY

engine.

That said, I have no sympathy for the reservation holder who, on

arrival says, "sorry, I changed my mind." That's unreasonable, even

though I realize the dealer has no way to distinguish it from the

buyer who finds the product unacceptable.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>

Publishers of books on railroad history

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/

Individual Email | Traditional

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

STMFC-digest@... <mailto:STMFC-digest%40yahoogroups.com>

STMFC-fullfeatured@...
<mailto:STMFC-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com>

STMFC-unsubscribe@...
<mailto:STMFC-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

89261 - 89280 of 197081