Date   

AAR 40-ft Gondola corner gussets

Bill Welch
 

I am using the Accurail gon to model a Georgia RR group built by
AC&F. I have used the Detail Assoc. Improved Dreadnaught to model the
correct ends and have gotten a nice fit vertically and horizontally
with the bulb angle in one plane all around. I wanted to use the very
nice Tichy corner gussets but I am not sure they are hefty enough, by
which I mean they only cover about half of the bulb angle. I am
willing to scratch build this fixture complete with modeling the the
sheet metal that folds over the bulb angle if I have to but would
like a photo to verify that the Tichy parts are not enough.

Does anyone know of or have a photo showing the corner gusset from
some height or maybe a drawing showing this detail they could share
with me?

Thanks!
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...


Re: Exactrail

naptownprr
 

So what was it that caused you to make that decision?

Quoting Rio Grande Ltd <rgmodels@...>:


Well I guess I must be in the death spiral as I stopped wholesaling
to hobby shops two years ago.

eric bracher
Rio Grande Models





-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 2:15 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Exactrail





This doesn't apply necessarily to ExactRail, but in the past,
manufacturers who retreated to direct-order only were usually in a
death spiral.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history











Re: Exactrail

Andy Harman
 

At 04:42 PM 4/2/2012 -0700, you wrote:

No argument, Rich. My point was about those who RETREAT from
dealer sales to direct sales.
Exactly.

Andy


Re: ADMIN: Re: Re: Exactrail

Andy Harman
 

At 06:44 PM 4/2/2012 -0400, you wrote:
I might also note that I think someone...Exactrail?...should produce a model
of a UP HK-50-4 hopper car. Is this criticism? Nope. Would I put up the
money to produce the tooling for such a car? Nope.
Of course there are some who believe you have no right to ask for a product, or even a version of a product, if you're not willing to front for the tooling and production costs.

If I were that wealthy, I'd just make what I wanted and wouldn't even bother to try and sell the leftovers.

Andy


Re: Exactrail

Andy Harman
 

At 09:02 PM 4/2/2012 +0000, you wrote:
able to tell. (This cuts out the basement operators, who have done great harm
to dealers over the years, going back to the 1960's.)
How so? If not for the basement (and traveling show) operators, 75% of the geographical market wouldn't be reached at all.

Andy


Re: Exactrail

Andy Harman
 

At 08:11 PM 4/2/2012 +0000, you wrote:

Question is; if one manufacturer elects this course, will others follow ?
The pressure to do so will be substantial.
If EXR succeeds with this new scheme, certainly others will want to follow. I'm more concerned that others will follow without waiting to see if it succeeds, or follow even if it fails.

Andy


Re: Exactrail

Rio Grande Ltd <rgmodels@...>
 

Well I guess I must be in the death spiral as I stopped wholesaling to hobby shops two years ago.

eric bracher
Rio Grande Models

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 2:15 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Exactrail





This doesn't apply necessarily to ExactRail, but in the past,
manufacturers who retreated to direct-order only were usually in a
death spiral.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Thickness of gondola sides

Ray Breyer
 

Hi Ed,


I STRONGLY suggest you head on over to Google Books or Internet Archive and download all eight of the Car Builder's Dictionaries that are there for FREE downloading. I just breezed through my copies of the 1903, 1906 and 1916 books, and ALL of the gondola plans there DO contain full dimensions for gondola sheathing, whether steel or wood.

I think the problem you're having is that you're only looking at railroad general arrangement diagram books, which are usually little better than general reference cartoons, don't get into the nitty-gritty of car construction. For the details you're looking for you need a LOT more information, and the CBDs are the best quick way to find lots of that.


I and a couple of others have posted direct links to the various CBDs over the past couple of years, so if you can't find the books yourself (they're easier to find on Internet Archive) just do an archive search here and they'll pop right up!


Regards,

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


________________________________
From: Edward <egreason@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 3:41 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Thickness of gondola sides

I am curious about the thickness of the side panels of composite open cars. I am considering building a model composite gondola from scratch but I am having a problem with the materials I will need.  What size scale wood would be appropriate?

When talking about the dimensions of open cars, such as hoppers and gondolas, we as modellers focus on the exterior measurements.  A 40 foot car should be 40 scale feet long.  But interior measurements seem to get less attention.  I would think that commercial manufacturers often have to compromise and make the sides thicker for durability purposes as a scale thickness would probably be too fragile, so I cannot reverse engineer from a model.

But I have not found any discussion of the scale thickness of the walls of open cars.  Drawings I have looked at sometimes give the width of the wood side planks (ie 10") but not the thickness.  Would the side panels of a composite gondola be 3" thick planks or 4". I am assuming that 2" would be too thin and not stand up to wear and tear on a gondola. But at 4" the car weight would start adding up.  Does anyone have any idea how thick a scale wood gondola's sides would be?  I am sure construction practices varied a bit by builder and railroad but I suspect that there was probably some standard range of approved measurements.

Forgive me if this has been discussed before but I could not find any discussion about open car wood thickness when I searched in the archives.  There was a discussion about flat car floors but I could find nothing about scale sides.

Ed Greason







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 24

tchenoweth@...
 

Ed,

I screwed up and forgot to send in the payment. Is it too late to get
the discount for 1 book? Tom Chenoweth


Re: Exactrail

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rich Orr wrote:
It is not as uncommon a practice as might be thought among the small to mid-size manufacturers. So as not to risk jail for commenting on the market practice of specific manufacturers, I won't enumerate them here. But just think of the small to midsize manufacturers and ask yourself how they market their products. You will find most of them use only direct sales. While this change is not welcome, I view it as an admission of the market share relative to costs.
No argument, Rich. My point was about those who RETREAT from dealer sales to direct sales.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Exactrail

SUVCWORR@...
 

It is not as uncommon a practice as might be thought among the small to mid-size manufacturers. So as not to risk jail for commenting on the market practice of specific manufacturers, I won't enumerate them here. But just think of the small to midsize manufacturers and ask yourself how they market their products. You will find most of them use only direct sales. While this change is not welcome, I view it as an admission of the market share relative to costs.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: carbonblack1 <radepierre@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 3:11 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Exactrail


Brian -

Question is; if one manufacturer elects this course, will others follow ?
The pressure to do so will be substantial.

Walthers is the elephant in the room, to some degree ...
They are in the precarious position of distributor and manufacturer.

Another nail in the coffin, with the LHS bearing the brunt of this.

Ron dePierre




--- In STMFC@..., Brian Ehni <behni@...> wrote:

Direct from Exactrail; looks like I'm not going to be buying anything new
from themŠ

Hello Brian,

The reports are correct and it is not a rumor or hoax.

As of May 1, 2012, ExactRail will no longer offer a dealer discount and will
discontinue our dealer network. Hobby stores may continue to purchase
ExactRail products from ExactRail.com at the standard consumer price.

Cost of production has increased considerably for ExactRail over the last
two years. We have absorbed most of these increases through our margins. As
we consider the sustainability of these trends, our conclusion is that the
best solution to serve the consumer is through a more direct model. By
serving our customers directly, we hope to be able to maintain lower prices.

Dealers will continue to receive a discount through the month of April.

Orders placed in April, including any advanced purchases, will still receive
the dealer discount.

Our decision to discontinue our dealer distribution network has come from
much deliberation. We appreciate the dealer¹s contribution to our industry;
we feel that this decision is necessary so that ExactRail may contribute
with them well into the future.

Best regards,

Dave Lotz
Regional Sales Representative
Phone (801) 822-3202


Thanks!
--

Brian P. Ehni





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: How to "model the prototype" - in terms of Ops?

Mikebrock
 

Tim O'Connor says:

"The last thing you want is a stalled train on the main.
But of course steam and diesel are very different in that respect, and I don't know
what kind of "backup" strategy you'd use with steam."

Well...I think Mark Amfahr discovered what UP did...at times. Merely have the following train's power come ahead and push the other enough to get it up a hill. Now, in this case, we're talking about a dedicated directional railroad. I.e., each of the two track mainline was dedicated to east or west running trains so the train to the east of a west bound train was also going west. This, of course, is not fool proof and, if the stalled train had a problem with its locomotive, it might not work. Furthermore, if the following train was one of the UP streamliners...the guy assigning the stalled train's power might afterwards be assigning toilets. Certainly UP was using doubleheaders WB on Sherman Hill in the 40's/50s and, when lead engines were 2-10-2's or 2-8-8-0s it is fairly certain that they were helpers and not merely power moves. OTOH, there is a significant difference between the hauling capability of a locomotive on clean rail and wet rail so problems might occur.

Mike Brock


Re: ADMIN: Re: Re: Exactrail

Bob McCarthy
 

Good evening!

     Exactrail was present with a large display right behind our Scale S display at the SAVANNAH RPM recently.

     Nice cars  even if they were rather tiny compared to S. <G>!

Bob McCarthy

--- On Mon, 4/2/12, Mike Brock <brockm@...> wrote:

From: Mike Brock <brockm@...>
Subject: ADMIN: Re: [STMFC] Re: Exactrail
To: STMFC@...
Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 10:44 PM
















 









Tony Thompson and others writes about the termination of dealers by

Exactrail:



"This doesn't apply necessarily to ExactRail, but in the past,

manufacturers who retreated to direct-order only were usually in a

death spiral."



I have the same impression. I will note, however, that the STMFC rules do

not allow criticism of a manufacturer's business practices. So, while there

is nothing wrong with voicing a concern about the viability of a

manufacturer due to a business practice, the court...uh...I will note that

this subject is on shaky ground.



Having said that, I think merely pointing out that a business practice might

make it more difficult to purchase a product might be considered to be

information useful to a manufacturer and should not be construed to be a

criticism. Admittedly, its close. In fact, personally, I dislike buying a

product that I have not seen. A LHS shelf is one way to see it. RPM Meets

are another. Exactrail may have terminated their access to LHS but they have

been present at Prototype Rails so perhaps they plan to continue to show

product that way.



I might also note that I think someone...Exactrail?...should produce a model

of a UP HK-50-4 hopper car. Is this criticism? Nope. Would I put up the

money to produce the tooling for such a car? Nope.



Mike Brock

STMFC Owner



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


ADMIN: Re: Re: Exactrail

Mikebrock
 

Tony Thompson and others writes about the termination of dealers by Exactrail:

"This doesn't apply necessarily to ExactRail, but in the past,
manufacturers who retreated to direct-order only were usually in a
death spiral."

I have the same impression. I will note, however, that the STMFC rules do not allow criticism of a manufacturer's business practices. So, while there is nothing wrong with voicing a concern about the viability of a manufacturer due to a business practice, the court...uh...I will note that this subject is on shaky ground.

Having said that, I think merely pointing out that a business practice might make it more difficult to purchase a product might be considered to be information useful to a manufacturer and should not be construed to be a criticism. Admittedly, its close. In fact, personally, I dislike buying a product that I have not seen. A LHS shelf is one way to see it. RPM Meets are another. Exactrail may have terminated their access to LHS but they have been present at Prototype Rails so perhaps they plan to continue to show product that way.

I might also note that I think someone...Exactrail?...should produce a model of a UP HK-50-4 hopper car. Is this criticism? Nope. Would I put up the money to produce the tooling for such a car? Nope.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: How to "model the prototype" - in terms of Ops?

Tim O'Connor
 

Dave

I've never heard anyone claim 300+ trains in a day on that route, but 200+ was
definitely possible in WWII and even going back to the late 1800's -- You could
call the PRR 'unique' in that respect; no one could touch them for sheer density
of traffic in that era.

As for extra horsepower, yeah, overpowering trains through bottlenecks is done
not so much for speed as for redundancy -- if one loco breaks down, maybe the
other can get the job done. The last thing you want is a stalled train on the main.
But of course steam and diesel are very different in that respect, and I don't know
what kind of "backup" strategy you'd use with steam.

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Evans" <devans1@...>

The PRR averaged 10,000 freight cars and nearly 100 passenger trains a day over the Allegheny summit (Gallitzin) during many months of WWII, with the peak day being slightly over 12,000 cars and 200+ freight trains, plus the usual passenger traffic (and a huge number of helper moves back to the bottom of the hill - on both sides for freights).

Hence the curiosity in traffic volumes. I am wondering if the volume of traffic per track was unique for the PRR's Allegheny summit.

Dave Evans


Re: Exactrail

Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

Hi Tim,

I double checked with my LHS and he told me that what you said is correct.
I stand corrected. Thank you for the information.

Joel Holmes


From conversations I had with Ron Sebastian when Horizon bought Athearn,
I got the strong impression from Ron that Horizon was very "pro-dealer" --
In
fact, Horizon will not deal with non-brick & mortar retailers as far as
I've been
able to tell. (This cuts out the basement operators, who have done great
harm
to dealers over the years, going back to the 1960's.)

Exactrail may be socking it to themselves with this move. We'll see.

Tim O'Connor






Re: Exactrail

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

This doesn't apply necessarily to ExactRail, but in the past, manufacturers who retreated to direct-order only were usually in a death spiral.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Exactrail

Tim O'Connor
 

From conversations I had with Ron Sebastian when Horizon bought Athearn,
I got the strong impression from Ron that Horizon was very "pro-dealer" -- In
fact, Horizon will not deal with non-brick & mortar retailers as far as I've been
able to tell. (This cuts out the basement operators, who have done great harm
to dealers over the years, going back to the 1960's.)

Exactrail may be socking it to themselves with this move. We'll see.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Thickness of gondola sides

ROGER HINMAN
 

The drawing of the USRA composite gondola in the Car Cyc shows the thickness as 1 3/4"

Roger Hinman

On Apr 2, 2012, at 4:41 PM, Edward wrote:

I am curious about the thickness of the side panels of composite open cars. I am considering building a model composite gondola from scratch but I am having a problem with the materials I will need. What size scale wood would be appropriate?

When talking about the dimensions of open cars, such as hoppers and gondolas, we as modellers focus on the exterior measurements. A 40 foot car should be 40 scale feet long. But interior measurements seem to get less attention. I would think that commercial manufacturers often have to compromise and make the sides thicker for durability purposes as a scale thickness would probably be too fragile, so I cannot reverse engineer from a model.

But I have not found any discussion of the scale thickness of the walls of open cars. Drawings I have looked at sometimes give the width of the wood side planks (ie 10") but not the thickness. Would the side panels of a composite gondola be 3" thick planks or 4". I am assuming that 2" would be too thin and not stand up to wear and tear on a gondola. But at 4" the car weight would start adding up. Does anyone have any idea how thick a scale wood gondola's sides would be? I am sure construction practices varied a bit by builder and railroad but I suspect that there was probably some standard range of approved measurements.

Forgive me if this has been discussed before but I could not find any discussion about open car wood thickness when I searched in the archives. There was a discussion about flat car floors but I could find nothing about scale sides.

Ed Greason


Re: Exactrail

Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

Hi All,

I think Horizon Hobbies has done the same thing.

Joel Holmes

Brian -

Question is; if one manufacturer elects this course, will others follow
?
The pressure to do so will be substantial.

Walthers is the elephant in the room, to some degree ...
They are in the precarious position of distributor and manufacturer.

Another nail in the coffin, with the LHS bearing the brunt of this.

Ron dePierre




--- In STMFC@..., Brian Ehni <behni@...> wrote:

Direct from Exactrail; looks like I'm not going to be buying anything
new
from them�

Hello Brian,

The reports are correct and it is not a rumor or hoax.

As of May 1, 2012, ExactRail will no longer offer a dealer discount and
will
discontinue our dealer network. Hobby stores may continue to purchase
ExactRail products from ExactRail.com at the standard consumer price.

Cost of production has increased considerably for ExactRail over the
last
two years. We have absorbed most of these increases through our margins.
As
we consider the sustainability of these trends, our conclusion is that
the
best solution to serve the consumer is through a more direct model. By
serving our customers directly, we hope to be able to maintain lower
prices.

Dealers will continue to receive a discount through the month of April.

Orders placed in April, including any advanced purchases, will still
receive
the dealer discount.

Our decision to discontinue our dealer distribution network has come
from
much deliberation. We appreciate the dealer�s contribution to our
industry;
we feel that this decision is necessary so that ExactRail may contribute
with them well into the future.

Best regards,

Dave Lotz
Regional Sales Representative
Phone (801) 822-3202


Thanks!
--

Brian P. Ehni







85341 - 85360 of 193447